DeathMatch for 10K: paisiello v. anonimuss (split from Betting When Small Blind)
Quote: Lemieux66You're a legit moron. Dude, we are talking about ONE specific hand in ONE specific circumstance. Just in THIS SPOT, calling is right. If you were UTG here it's fine to fold. But...you're not!
No, you're wrong for the reasons I posted previously. Your personal insult goes to show everyone how sophisticated your level of argument is.
Quote: Lemieux66I think you're the kind of guy who says McDonalds is bad, unhealthy, and you shouldn't eat it. That's fine. But you would also tell the starving homeless man who was offered some mcnuggets the same thing.
And you will probably end up homeless if that's the way you play poker.
Quote: paisielloAnd you will probably end up homeless if that's the way you play poker.
I would crush it at the shelter.
It may have been, but you upped the ante when you brought up large numbers. I already told you, I didn't read the entire thread and I jumped in late. What caught my eye was your terrible advice. Then I read some talk about wager so I skipped to the good stuff. What the original terms were are meaningless to me since I didn't make the offer. I wanted a weasel free wager. I wanted the wager to prove something and not just win a bet.Quote: paisielloThe bet was proposed by Anon NOT me.
It's clear that none of you know what you are talking about. Poker is full of bad players like yourselves. That is why people can make a lucrative living playing it.
You have been trying to bluff the entire time and have been called. Now you are just slow rolling. You should withhold your name and have one of your poker buddies who you respect read this thread. Then ask him his opinion. I have a feeling your eyes might be opened a bit. We have lurkers going the extra mile just to point out how wrong your advice is.
I still don't know if you are just posturing at this point and cant back down in order to not look bad or you still think your position is strong. You are about the only one who shares your theory.
You have no clue who makes money doing what or how much. Playing poker full time for a living takes more then just skill. You have to be fully dedicated eat sleep and drink it. I have seen good poker players broke. This may have nothing to do with there poker skill, they have other leaks or in life. Some people just get burnt out on poker and don't find it enjoyable full time. Poker can be hard on relationships. I know my GF was not to happy when i played nothing but poker.
feel free to put your money where your mouth is. I already made you a heads up NL offer. I would not be going out of my way much, because I play HE NL cash games at least once every few months. Especially when I run into trash talkers like you. I have Floor and poker dealers who can verify this. Along with a few forum members. Next time, if I can get my opponent to agree, I will record some game play.
I have a a few legitimate questions, just out of curiosity.
Do you have a "normal" job?
Where do you play poker?
How often do you play?
What game and limits do you play?
If you think I am giving terrible advice then it goes to show how little you know.
Quote: Lemieux66Don't you understand that 99% of poker is about gray areas? For example, sometimes you're putting 300 bucks in pre with AQ. Other times you don't put a red cent in with AQ suited. To make any money at all in poker you need a feel for the circumstances.
I might agree with you except for always calling the small blind with a weak hand.
Quote: paisielloI might agree with you except for always calling the small blind with a weak hand.
I give up.
I have moved past the weasel bet. Its obvious you were not wanting to make an honest bet. As tried to point out already, you can find successful experts in any field who will say they believe in just about anything even Big Foot.Quote: paisielloSorry, I am only interested in the terms offered by Anon. Anything else doesn't interest me. Your wasting your time trying to change the terms of the bet or trying to challenge me to something else. (I thought that would have been driven home by now but I guess some people sometimes require a little more effort than others before they understand).
If you think I am giving terrible advice then it goes to show how little you know.
At this point im not talking about a wager on what people think. I'm talking about playing you heads up Poker. Or some other scenario. Perhaps even online, I prefer live however.
Are you game? Yes or no?
You may be correct and I know little so this should be easy for you and worth your time to crush me in a game. I already committed to playing SS connectors. and not just 4,5.
Quote: AxelWolfI have moved past the weasel bet. Its obvious you were not wanting to make an honest bet. As tried to point out already, you can find successful experts in any field who will say they believe in just about anything even Big Foot.
At this point im not talking about a wager on what people think. I'm talking about playing you heads up Poker. Or some other scenario. Perhaps even online, I prefer live however.
Are you game? Yes or no?
You may be correct and I know little so this should be easy for you and worth your time to crush me in a game. I already committed to playing SS connectors. and not just 4,5.
Again and again: I AM NOT INTERESTED. Please stop trying to goad me into something I am not interested in.
Who said always? I have yet to find a starting hand where you Always play it.Quote: paisielloI might agree with you except for always calling the small blind with a weak hand.
Ok that's all you had to say. You may want to quit telling people you will stack them. That's baiting the goading.Quote: paisielloAgain and again: I AM NOT INTERESTED. Please stop trying to goad me into something I am not interested.
Do you mind answering some of my questions and get past the betting if you wish. I'm just curious.
Do you have a "real" JOB
Where do you play poker?
How often do you play?
What game and limits do you play?
Quote: AxelWolfOk that's all you had to say. You may want to quit telling people you will stack them. That's baiting the goading.
Do you mind answering some of my questions and get past the betting if you wish. I'm just curious.
Do you have a "real" JOB
Where do you play poker?
How often do you play?
What game and limits do you play?
If you go back deep into the sordid history of this thread, paisiello mentions he is taking this position based on book knowledge and the professionals that he knows personally.
Quote: AcesAndEightsIf you go back deep into the sordid history of this thread, paisiello mentions he is taking this position based on book knowledge and the professionals that he knows personally.
And then there's here where he says he is not a pro and has only been playing for a couple of years. So I'm sure he has a straight job too.
Quote: paisielloI'm not the one who proposed the bet. Anon did. I said will accept those terms and nothing else. You geniuses are the ones who keep trying to change the terms.
Look... they KNOW there will be no bet! They KNOW you are just a recreational player who would be easy for the taking. You seem to think that everyone else here is just a bad poker player....
Axel has challenged you to a one on one match.... if you think he is just one of the losers at poker, take him up!
The point of this thread is not and should not be about the bet, it should be about what to do with your suited connectors with the limpers in front of you. I guess I would be interested in you finding ONE player who would say folding is the right play....
[AcesAndEights]If you go back deep into the sordid history of this thread, paisiello mentions he is taking this position based on book knowledge and the professionals that he knows personally.Quote: AcesAndEightsQuote: AcesAndEightsIf you go back deep into the sordid history of this thread, paisiello mentions he is taking this position based on book knowledge and the professionals that he knows personally.
And then there's here where he says he is not a pro and has only been playing for a couple of years. So I'm sure he has a straight job too.
I knew about the book thing, I loved it when someone asked him if he played poker, and he responded with, Do you read books? I really thought that was funny and the biggest Failed answer of the year. It was right up there with some of TK's and varm's answers.
If he gets most of his info from other players, books and he has to work a real job. I don't understand how he can say things like this
with a srt8 face.Quote: paisielloThe bet was proposed by Anon NOT me.
It's clear that none of you know what you are talking about. Poker is full of bad players like yourselves. That is why people can make a lucrative living playing it.
Quote: SOOPOOLook... they KNOW there will be no bet! They KNOW you are just a recreational player who would be easy for the taking. You seem to think that everyone else here is just a bad poker player....
Axel has challenged you to a one on one match.... if you think he is just one of the losers at poker, take him up!
The point of this thread is not and should not be about the bet, it should be about what to do with your suited connectors with the limpers in front of you. I guess I would be interested in you finding ONE player who would say folding is the right play....
You're wrong. The point of this thread was the bet between me and Anon. Read the title. He dropped out and everyone has been goading me to do something else that I AM NOT INTERESTED IN.
Quote: AxelWolf
If he gets most of his info from other players, books and he has to work a real job. I don't understand how he can say things like this with a srt8 face.
I can say it because I trust the books i've read and the people I know more than I trust you.
Welcome back SP. it would not be hard to find players who play this way I have seen many of them. tossing this hand away is not the end of the world. People often over value overplay SS connectors. If you are not very creative and play poor after the flop I can see why he believes what he does. Hes looking for the golden flop with this hand or a very rare bluff. The hand may not be profitable in this situation. If you have a few tricky aggressive players at the table and can't fight back well, you should stick to hands that hold up on their own.Quote: SOOPOOLook... they KNOW there will be no bet! They KNOW you are just a recreational player who would be easy for the taking. You seem to think that everyone else here is just a bad poker player....
Axel has challenged you to a one on one match.... if you think he is just one of the losers at poker, take him up!
The point of this thread is not and should not be about the bet, it should be about what to do with your suited connectors with the limpers in front of you. I guess I would be interested in you finding ONE player who would say folding is the right play....
I don't expect you to trust just me me. I would hope you would have an open mind and trust the majority. Or even back up some of your claims and show us where we are wrong. It seems some math has been provided to you along with some theory that goes against your belief. People have used top pros as examples. You want to use a select few people to back up what you are saying. How is that good a good gauge on what the truth is? How can you be a good poker player with this attitude?Quote: paisielloI can say it because I trust the books i've read and the people I know more than I trust you.
I would say that only a very small percent of top players would fold in the situation described in the OP. What proof do you need or want?
You keep insinuating you would crush some of the people debating you on this. Show us don't tell us.
Can you show me a quote from a book and tell us what book it is and where to find the the information. Is it possible you are misinterpreting this information. Who are the guys telling you this?
Do me a favor give me a name just one name of a top well known poker player who you would trust.
You are completely misconstruing what i've said. Go back and read the posts where I explained why you were wrong.
The "math" that was provided only looked at one or two selected hands. Your reasoning is faulty as I explained in previous posts.
David Sklansky has recommendations for starting hands in different positions. And he is pretty loose with his recommendations.
Quote: paisielloSaying that the correct play is determined by the majority is just wrong. The majority of players are weak players and they would always call the small blind with weak hands like you would.
You are completely misconstruing what i've said. Go back and read the posts where I explained why you were wrong.
The "math" that was provided only looked at one or two selected hands. Your reasoning is faulty as I explained in previous posts.
David Sklansky has recommendations for starting hands in different positions. And he is pretty loose with his recommendations.
Did Sklansky happen to factor that everyone limped? That's huge.
Quote: paisielloSorry, I am only interested in the terms offered by Anon. Anything else doesn't interest me. Your wasting your time trying to change the terms of the bet or trying to challenge me to something else. (I thought that would have been driven home by now but I guess some people sometimes require a little more effort than others before they understand).
If you think I am giving terrible advice then it goes to show how little you know.
I think it's funny that you are calling him a bad player and at the same time you refuse to play against him.
If you are so much better than him why don't you play him and take his money?
I think that everyone knows who the bad player on this thread is...
Quote: paisielloFinally. Go and personally insult someone else on another thread.
There's only one person in this thread who has been an insult to you, I'm afraid.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI think it's funny that you are calling him a bad player and at the same time you refuse to play against him.
If you are so much better than him why don't you play him and take his money?
I think that everyone knows who the bad player on this thread is...
Just for the record, I challenged him to a "Best-of-25," series and offered to start him with three wins.
Quote: paisiello
The "math" that was provided only looked at one or two selected hands. Your reasoning is faulty as I explained in previous posts.
David Sklansky has recommendations for starting hands in different positions. And he is pretty loose with his recommendations.
In my second scenario, I had the first and second to act play like idiots to deliberately Take Value Away from the small blind's hand, and the result was still emphatically that the SB should call.
(I'm kidding, as Lemieux66 knows, but some in this thread might take me seriously.)
Quote: Lemieux66GUYS I was just SB in a 9 way game, five limpers!, and I called with 76 suited! Flop AKK two diamonds so I had a flush draw. Guy bet 10 and got one caller(I checked first of course) and I FOLDED. I both called pre AND folded even after hitting a crappy draw! Can you believe it?!?
That must have given your opponents tons of information.
Quote: Mission146There's only one person in this thread who has been an insult to you, I'm afraid.
No need to be afraid. The night is still young, sir.
I'm talking about the majority of GOOD players. I'm confident They will say the same thing we are trying to convey to you. It dose not take a poker pro to know certain hands are profitable.Quote: paisielloSaying that the correct play is determined by the majority is just wrong. The majority of players are weak players and they would always call the small blind with weak hands like you would.
You are completely misconstruing what i've said. Go back and read the posts where I explained why you were wrong.
The "math" that was provided only looked at one or two selected hands. Your reasoning is faulty as I explained in previous posts.
David Sklansky has recommendations for starting hands in different positions. And he is pretty loose with his recommendations.
***List some good players who you think are good and you would trust their play.***
***Can you give some quotes or direct me to the information in said books you are referring to?*** I think it may be worth your time to see if you may be miss understanding the full picture. I would love to see a chart or suggestion from a current book that says, one should throw a way a hand getting 8 or 9 to one in the SB during a NL game. I have no doubt someone has gave such advice at one time or another. I want to see the context of the suggestion.I would be hard for someone to comment on each situation, so this may be a general rule. What we are talking about could be the exception to the rule. Many games have a basic strategy or a beginners strategy, then they have advanced strategy's. Take blackjack and card counting this seems to be along the same lines.
****If David Sklansky recommended this had was a profitable hand as the OP stated would you then concede you may be wrong?*****
Can I get that?Quote: Mission146Just for the record, I challenged him to a "Best-of-25," series and offered to start him with three wins.
Even a Wov live poker Tournament. put up a poll and see who will go for it. I would be willing to contribute some time or help you set it up.
top finishers get a few free insult passes ;) bottom finishers must add I suck at poker to their tag line.
Quote: AxelWolfCan I get that?
Yeah, start me off with three wins and we're on!
Quote: AxelWolfMission you seem to be very good at setting up things. You should set up a Wov poker Tournament online. I know some places let you reserve tables just for this situation. It could be done a number of ways. Even using free chips could be used. you could have an entry fee of some kind.
Even a Wov live poker Tournament. put up a poll and see who will go for it. I would be willing to contribute some time or help you set it up.
top finishers get a few free insult passes ;) bottom finishers must add I suck at poker to their tag line.
That would be a pretty cool thing to do, any idea what websites would allow someone to set this up? I guess one could make a profile just about anywhere and set up an "Invite-Only," table, or do the sites not do that anymore?
In fact, I wish we had a chat room feature. I'd have a blast scheduling games in here, trivia, outburst, tribonds, etc. Easy to run if I had a simple chat interface for multiple users tacked on.
Quote: Mission146Yeah, start me off with three wins and we're on!
Careful, Mission... :)
I actually have no idea how good of a poker player you are. With my level of skill, I would absolutely not make this bet against Axel -- I'd assume that I'd lose, even with the 3-game head start.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceCareful, Mission... :)
I actually have no idea how good of a poker player you are. With my level of skill, I would absolutely not make this bet against Axel -- I'd assume that I'd lose, even with the 3-game head start.
I'm pretty confident that a three game head start would bring me up to having about a 50/50 chance against him, even if he is an outstanding player...which I'm sure he is.
Quote: Mission146I'm pretty confident that a three game head start would bring me up to having about a 50/50 chance against him, even if he is an outstanding player...which I'm sure he is.
I'd feel the same way as you if I had a 10 game head start :) (You are almost certainly a better no limit player than I am)
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI'd feel the same way as you if I had a 10 game head start :) (You are almost certainly a better no limit player than I am)
I don't play NL cash games because I'm more conservative than I should be, I perform much better in tournaments. I'm probably a better Limit Hold 'Em player than anything else, and second would be No Limit tournaments.
Quote: AxelWolfI'm talking about the majority of GOOD players. I'm confident They will say the same thing we are trying to convey to you. It dose not take a poker pro to know certain hands are profitable.
It's possible that the majority of good players happen to agree with the majority of bad players on this point. I would argue that you would need to weight their opinions based on years of experience and profitability. It's an academic point since it would be very difficult to do this.
Quote: AxelWolf***List some good players who you think are good and you would trust their play.***
Not sure it would mean anything to you if I did. These guys are strictly cash players well below the radar for tax purposes. But for $10,000 i'll find 10 of them for you.
Quote: AxelWolf***Can you give some quotes or direct me to the information in said books you are referring to?*** I think it may be worth your time to see if you may be miss understanding the full picture. I would love to see a chart or suggestion from a current book that says, one should throw a way a hand getting 8 or 9 to one in the SB during a NL game. I have no doubt someone has gave such advice at one time or another. I want to see the context of the suggestion.I would be hard for someone to comment on each situation, so this may be a general rule. What we are talking about could be the exception to the rule. Many games have a basic strategy or a beginners strategy, then they have advanced strategy's. Take blackjack and card counting this seems to be along the same lines.
I'm not misunderstanding anything. I don't have any of the books in front of me but they generally discourage calling the blinds with weak hands.
Quote: AxelWolf****If David Sklansky recommended this had was a profitable hand as the OP stated would you then concede you may be wrong?*****
I doubt he would recommend calling the blinds with a weak hand. But even if he did, it would be one guy's opinion which doesn't automatically invalidate someone else's opinion.
I like how they are "well below the radar for tax purposes". Why win millions when you will just have to pay taxes on it? Better to break even for the year and keep the IRS away, right?
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceGive it up Axel. This guy is just going to hem and haw and weasel out of whatever you suggest. Now we are down to "top pros" who you have never heard of. Probably people who don't actually play poker, but will say whatever this guy wants for $100.
I like how they are "well below the radar for tax purposes". Why win millions when you will just have to pay taxes on it? Better to break even for the year and keep the IRS away, right?
Again it shows how little you know.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceGive it up Axel. This guy is just going to hem and haw and weasel out of whatever you suggest. Now we are down to "top pros" who you have never heard of. Probably people who don't actually play poker, but will say whatever this guy wants for $100.
He can get me cheaper than that, for $20, calling a suited 54 in this situation sucks.
