Just calling with the nuts
Ya, I think its dumb Its probably more so, so the casinos get max rake. I ran into this a few weeks ago, I can't remember what casino. Some guy just called with the nut flush. Of course the table caption(i don't know why, but when i say, table caption, I think of some guy like Bob) notices he just called, as we all noticed. The table caption made a big deal of it for no reason. The kid who made this mistake was a newbie and didn't realize he had the nuts, because the ace was on board and he had the king in his hand.Quote: IbeatyouracesYes. It's to prevent collusion.
Quote: AxelWolfYa, I think its dumb Its probably more so, so the casinos get max rake. I ran into this a few weeks ago, I can't remember what casino. Some guy just called with the nut flush. Of course the table caption(i don't know why, but when i say, table caption, I think of some guy like Bob) notices he just called, as we all noticed. The table caption made a big deal of it for no reason. The kid who made this mistake was a newbie and didn't realize he had the nuts, because the ace was on board and he had the king in his hand.
The Table Captain? Those guys are the worst, and the best I found to get up and leave a table when I was having a 50/50 time of it.
Players should be able to play their hand the way they see fit, even if that is flat calling the nuts. It's a bluffingame, after all. Maybe I'm playing dumb for a later hand/ Maybe I know a raise is pointless at this juncture. Gah.
I agree, there are a few different situations you may just want to call with the nuts. One reason might be: A guy bets small on the river, you are 100% sure he will fold if you raise, however you want to see his hand. I know some places have a rule, you can ask to see the hand, but that creates conflict. Some places don't have that rule, unless you suspect cheating. Also some guy could just toss his hand in the muck.Quote: thecesspitThe Table Captain? Those guys are the worst, and the best I found to get up and leave a table when I was having a 50/50 time of it.
Players should be able to play their hand the way they see fit, even if that is flat calling the nuts. It's a bluffingame, after all. Maybe I'm playing dumb for a later hand/ Maybe I know a raise is pointless at this juncture. Gah.
There could be a situation where raising will only cause the rake to inflate and you have a nut split hand.
Quote: Stoneywhat if it's a situation where you want to see the guys hand? maybe you think you picked up on a tell and want to see what he has. maybe you just want to embarass him. if you raise, he folds, and you get nothing more than the money you would have won anyways.
Stoney raises a good point. You might have picked up a tell, especially after being re-raised earlier. Other than that, its juice for the rake.
Quote: AyecarumbaI recall this happened in the WSOP a few years ago, when the, "lumberjack" guy had a flush but did not bet. He was penalized one orbit of blinds. I recall that a straight flush would be possible with the board cards, so I was puzzled since he didn't technically have the "nuts".
In that case, they would have got the ruling wrong then. It has to be the nuts on board.
I have only heard this rule being enforced in tournaments, more specifically the WSOP. I don't have a problem with it, but it usually penalizes those that aren't trying to angle the game.
Quote: GreasyjohnI saw a guy on YouTube just call with the nuts, and that's against the rules. Is the rule in place so that players don't go easy on friends or confederates?
I hope that's only for Hold'em games. In Omaha 8 you often want to call with a nut low if you're going to get quartered.
Players who always bet and/or raise at almost every opportunity, will check all the way to the river.
Quote: 24BingoI've never heard of this rule before. I suppose calling to close the action is suspicious, but I at least hope it's restricted to that.
I just asked Matt Savage this very question. TDA rules prohibit any soft playing. However, whether or not the player is actually penalized is left up to the discretion of the tournament director since it's always possible it was an honest mistake.
Quote: BuzzardThere is collusion all the time, even in the WSOP. A player is all in pre-flop, and 2 other players with bigger stacks call. You can bet your ass that's all the action you'll see. Neither will want to force the other out of the pot and have the all-in player go up against one hand instead of two. Happens all the time, and commentators will even comment about how smart the 2 players are.
Players who always bet and/or raise at almost every opportunity, will check all the way to the river.
Sandbagging is a perfectly legitimate strategy in this spot. But if one of the callers develops a big hand he has no reason to sandbag anymore.
Quote: MathExtremistIn Omaha 8 you often want to call with a nut low if you're going to get quartered.
There is another reason to just call with the nut low in Omaha 8 or Tahoe Split. Sometimes, when you have the nut low but nothing for high, and you have player's behind you who may call with second or third nut low you don't want to drive them out of the pot with a raise. You actually have to do a little acting in this spot. If you automatically call when it's your turn to act it's a tell to them that you have the nut low. So you have to do a little hesitation and act like you are debating with yourself before you call.
I was downstairs sitting in a 10-20 Omaha 8 game at the Horseshoe. Upstairs in Benny's Bullpen the final table was going for the $2000 Omaha 8 event. Whenever I took a break from the game I would go upstairs and railbird the final table. The faces I recognized were Eric Seidel, Robert "Chip Burner" Turner, and Annie Duke. The last time I went upstairs there were just a few players left with Eric Seidel and Annie Duke being two of them.
I was back down in the 10-20 game when someone came down the escalator and announced "Annie got the bracelet!" In a very mean tone the guy sitting next to me said:
"If she had a dick she wouldn't have won it!"
"What do you mean?" I asked. He was agitated and repeated the statement.
"What do you mean by that?" I asked again.
He said "Look, with about 50 players left Annie was in a hand with Robert Turner. It was down on the river. She only had a few chips left. Not even enough to make a full call. She checked. Turner checked behind her and said 'I refuse to take a lady's last chips.' Annie rolled over two pair and the third nut low. Turner rolled over nut-nut. She had to call if he bet! She would have been knocked out!"
"You saw that?" I asked.
"Hell yeah!" he said. "I was sitting at the table watching it. The bitch knocked me out twentieth!"
Quote: mickeycrimmThe only bracelet Annie Duke ever won at the WSOP was for the 2004 $2000 Omaha 8 event. And, of course, it's one of the things she touts in her publicity statements. But I know something about that event....
I was downstairs sitting in a 10-20 Omaha 8 game at the Horseshoe. Upstairs in Benny's Bullpen the final table was going for the $2000 Omaha 8 event. Whenever I took a break from the game I would go upstairs and railbird the final table. The faces I recognized were Eric Seidel, Robert "Chip Burner" Turner, and Annie Duke. The last time I went upstairs there were just a few players left with Eric Seidel and Annie Duke being two of them.
I was back down in the 10-20 game when someone came down the escalator and announced "Annie got the bracelet!" In a very mean tone the guy sitting next to me said:
"If she had a dick she wouldn't have won it!"
"What do you mean?" I asked. He was agitated and repeated the statement.
"What do you mean by that?" I asked again.
He said "Look, with about 50 players left Annie was in a hand with Robert Turner. It was down on the river. She only had a few chips left. Not even enough to make a full call. She checked. Turner checked behind her and said 'I refuse to take a lady's last chips.' Annie rolled over two pair and the third nut low. Turner rolled over nut-nut. She had to call if he bet! She would have been knocked out!"
"You saw that?" I asked.
"Hell yeah!" he said. "I was sitting at the table watching it. The bitch knocked me out twentieth!"
That is a total classic, mickey. Belongs in a book somewhere for sure. lol...
Quote: mickeycrimm..."You saw that?" I asked.
"Hell yeah!" he said. "I was sitting at the table watching it. The bitch knocked me out twentieth!"
That gentleman would have been Kent Ervin of Salt Lake City, Utah. He finished just ahead of Phil Hellmuth.
The internet indicates Mr. Ervin may have passed away in 2010.
Quote: mickeycrimmThe only bracelet Annie Duke ever won at the WSOP was for the 2004 $2000 Omaha 8 event. And, of course, it's one of the things she touts in her publicity statements. But I know something about that event....
These stories are great but what amazes me more is your memory. I probably drink 1/100th of what you put away and I can't remember last week.
Quote: RogerKintThese stories are great but what amazes me more is your memory. I probably drink 1/100th of what you put away and I can't remember last week.
Well, my memory is not perfect. I just googled the results and seen that Robert Turner wasn't at the final table. I had railbirded the entire event when I would take breaks from the 10-20 game. At one point I seen Turner and Duke at the same table, but it must have been long before the final table. And Kent Ervin would have been at that table too, but I never put two and two together about him.
Quote: AyecarumbaThat gentleman would have been Kent Ervin of Salt Lake City, Utah. He finished just ahead of Phil Hellmuth. The internet indicates Mr. Ervin may have passed away in 2010.
From the picture that is definitely him. Thanks for digging this up, Ayecarumba.
Quote: BuzzardAmazing how many guys some people consider a low life, poker player, dealer,bar owner, tin man, etc served their country. Kent earned a Purple Heart in Vietnam. That make him OK in my book.
That goes for you too, Buzz. Not the low life part, the Vietnam part. There is a special place in my heart for all our fellow Vietnam Vets.
Had an uncle who could not join VFW because he never served overseas. I am a Vietnam Era Vet. Saw the world in 4 years
San Antonio, Greenville Mississippi, Birmingham Alabama, back to San antonio for 3 years. Talk about a red neck tour of duty. LOL
Quote: mickeycrimmThe only bracelet Annie Duke ever won at the WSOP was for the 2004 $2000 Omaha 8 event. And, of course, it's one of the things she touts in her publicity statements. But I know something about that event....
I was downstairs sitting in a 10-20 Omaha 8 game at the Horseshoe. Upstairs in Benny's Bullpen the final table was going for the $2000 Omaha 8 event. Whenever I took a break from the game I would go upstairs and railbird the final table. The faces I recognized were Eric Seidel, Robert "Chip Burner" Turner, and Annie Duke. The last time I went upstairs there were just a few players left with Eric Seidel and Annie Duke being two of them.
I was back down in the 10-20 game when someone came down the escalator and announced "Annie got the bracelet!" In a very mean tone the guy sitting next to me said:
"If she had a dick she wouldn't have won it!"
"What do you mean?" I asked. He was agitated and repeated the statement.
"What do you mean by that?" I asked again.
He said "Look, with about 50 players left Annie was in a hand with Robert Turner. It was down on the river. She only had a few chips left. Not even enough to make a full call. She checked. Turner checked behind her and said 'I refuse to take a lady's last chips.' Annie rolled over two pair and the third nut low. Turner rolled over nut-nut. She had to call if he bet! She would have been knocked out!"
"You saw that?" I asked.
"Hell yeah!" he said. "I was sitting at the table watching it. The bitch knocked me out twentieth!"
So she had 1 bet left and came all the way back to win? Quite a comeback
