Is Card influencing possible in Texas Hold'em?

Hi all,

I've been keeping detailed statistics on my poker play for the year. I've been playing poker since 1992. 7 Card Stud was the game of choice back then. Then switched to Texas Hold'em when that became the trend. I also sometimes play Omaha Hi/Lo when I get a little tired of Hold'em. I would consider myself pretty good, estimating that I win a few thousand dollars a year every year playing recreational $3-$6 limit, $2-$20 spread, $5-$150 spread and some No Limit.

I believe I am able to influence the flop, turn and river by how I hold the cards in my hand. The reason I believe this is because I seem to win more than most people I know. I will first list my statistics for the year. These are 100% true, as I have an android program that I use to track the type of game, length of play, buy-in, cash-out, etc. After that i will explain my grips and practice methods. Note I had an amazing start to the year, winning each of the first 7 times I played and only lost in 1 of my first 11. Also, my cash out amounts are usually in round numbers because I tip any extra dollars I have as I'm leaving.

2013 Play History

#1 $3/$6 Omaha H/L - 6 hours 40 minutes - In $150 Out $350 (+$200)
#2 $3/$6 Hold'em - 6 hours 15 minutes - In $100 Out $320 (+120)
#3 $2-$20 Hold'em - 7 hours 13 minutes - In $100 Out $145 (+45)
$4 $2-$20 Hold'em - 6 hours 12 minutes - In $100 Out $340 (+$240)
#5 $3/$6 Hold'em - 4 hours 10 minutes - In $100 Out $140 (+$40)
#6 $3/$6 Hold'em - 4 hours 7 minutes - In $100 Out $293 (+$193)
#7 $5-$150 Hold'em - 2 hours 2 minutes - In $133 Out $510 (+$377)
#8 $3/$6 Hold'em - 4 hours 5 minutes - In $100 Out $33 (-$67)
#9 $3/$6 Hold'em - 1 hour 1 minute - In $100 Out $100 (even)
#10 $3/$6 Hold'em - 1 hour 41 minutes - In $100 Out $100 (even)
#11 $5-$150 Hold'em - 0 hours 39 minutes - In $120 Out $234 (+$114)
#12 $2-$20 Hold'em - 2 hours 10 minutes - In $220 Out $136 (-$84)
#13 $2-$20 Hold'em - 2 hours 3 minutes - In $120 Out $54 (-$64)
#14 $3/$6 Hold'em - 1 hour 4 minutes - In $74 out $135 (+$61)
#15 $5-$150 Hold'em - 1 hour 26 minutes - In $310 Out $54 (-256)
#16 $3/$6 Hold'em - 0 hours 26 minutes - In $100 Out $95 (-$5)
#17 $2-$20 Hold'em - 2 hours 10 minutes - In $160 Out $0 (-$160)
#18 $3/$6 Hold'em - 0 hours 58 minutes - In $100 Out $74 (-$26)
#19 $5-$150 Hold'em - 1 hour 39 minutes - In $174 Out $369 (+$195)
#20 $5-$150 Hold'em - 1 hour 53 minutes - In $200 Out $98 (-$102)
#21 $3/$6 Hold'em - 2 hours 14 minutes - In $100 Out $0 (-$100)
#22 $3/$6 Hold'em - 1 hour 53 minutes - In $110 Out $103 (-$7)
#23 $2-$20 Hold'em - 1 hour 15 minutes - In $150 Out $295 (+$145)
#24 $2-$20 Hold'em - 5 hours 45 minutes - In $200 Out $150 (-$50)
#25 $3/$6 Hold'em - 1 hour 30 minutes - In $100 Out $23(-$77)
#26 $2-$20 Hold'em 1 hour 3 minutes - In $123 Out $190 (+$67)
#27 $3/$6 Hold'em - 3 hours 12 minutes - In $100 Out $91 (-$9)
#28 $2-$20 Hold'em - 5 hours 52 minutes - In $120 Out $457 (+$337)
#29 $2-$8 Hold'em - 3 hours 10 minutes - In $200 Out $69 (Yesterday) (-$31)
#30 $5-$150 Hold'em - 0 hours 55 minutes - In $160 Out $500 (Yesterday) (+$340)

So in 30 sessions I won 14, broke exactly even on 2 and lost 14.
I am up $1,484 for the year.
My average win when I win is $177.
My average loss when I lose is $74.
My longest win streak is 7 sessions.
My longest losing streak is 4 session.

So, it seems that I am better than the average player (at least that I play with I guess). So my question is, is it possible my grip is influencing the flops, turn and river to give me an edge (+EV). Right before the flop I grab the cards with my right thumb and index finger as they are face down, overlapping each other by about 90%, in the lower left corner and kind of flick them up. This seems to get me a lot of good flops. Sometimes the cards must slip in just the tiniest way and the flop is no good for me. I can't seem to get every flop. If I have influenced the flop properly and get to the turn, I usually put my right hand on my cards (protecting them) and press firmly across the cards approximately 80% up the cards towards me. If I'm on that day it seems to work pretty good. Then the river. If I am good enough to get there, I usually just lightly hold my cards down with my right hand (protecting them) and cup my crotch under the table with my left hand. I've won a lot of nice pots doing this.

Early in the year I was influencing/controlling the shit out of the cards. But then again, I have practiced a lot. I also practice the river influencing at home a lot. More in the last 2 years since I've been single. Maybe too much.

Does anyone have any other explanation for these good sessions? I'm thinking of writing a book and holding seminars based on my techniques, but I want to continue to track my progress to make sure I am at the top of my influencing game and can sustain it through an entire year.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and for any comments you might have.

ZCore13

Its obvious we are not going to solve this tonite . Ive got to go to bed now, so could everyone just stop posting for tonite so I wont have too much catchin up to do tomorrow. Happy Easter and good nite.

I don't think there's anything to solve. I have the proof. It happened!

ZCore13

I'm sorry but are you saying that by the way you hold the cards in your hand you "influence" what cards will be dealt by the dealer?

If that's what you are saying, the answer is no.

But if you are saying that the way you look at your cards, hold your cards, and how you look and hold your cards affects your body language and that might get others to fold to your bets or fold their cards pre flop, then yes, that is possible.

I don't follow the dice setting threads, but I wonder if this is some sort of parody of them. Otherwise it's sort of alarming...

It would be a good idea if you'd wear your official "card holding pin" (CHP) on your shirt so that other "card holders" know to stay back from your table. Since "card holding" is so powerful, it can easily burn down a game if too many of you set at the same table.

nice parody thread

+1

Quote: AlanMendelson

I'm sorry but are you saying that by the way you hold the cards in your hand you "influence" what cards will be dealt by the dealer?

If that's what you are saying, the answer is no.

But if you are saying that the way you look at your cards, hold your cards, and how you look and hold your cards affects your body language and that might get others to fold to your bets or fold their cards pre flop, then yes, that is possible.

Pretty sure this is supposed to be a parody of all the DI talk over the last few days.

(If not, then I think someone doesn't quite understand the nature of causality.)

You really should have waited until today to post this. Good results though!

:) The results are 100% accurate. I just don't see that anyone can disprove I am influencing.

ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

:) The results are 100% accurate. I just don't see that anyone can disprove I am influencing.

ZCore13

Happy April fools day

ZCore13,

I honestly think that's a problem for the purposes of your discussion. I think you will find there are many who believe in card "influencing" but not card "control." I think many people separate the two -- influencing meaning have some effect, and card control meaning some exact result. When I hear someone claim card "control" I say impossible. When someone claims "card influencing" I listen up to the possibility.

I know you have always used the term "card control" but had I known then that you might really mean just "card influencing" then I would have given you more attention to what you were saying. Now, I admit, I have to rethink my past thoughts about what you wrote. And now I have to wonder were you talking about actual "control" or just "influencing"? You might not appreciate the difference, but I do and I think a lot of others would say "influencing is possible but control is not."

The Kernel would probably disagree with me, but that's my ten cents.

-Keyser

Quote: Zcore13

I'm thinking of writing a book and holding seminars based on my techniques, but I want to continue to track my progress to make sure I am at the top of my influencing game and can sustain it through an entire year.

Yes, yes! Where do I send hundreds to thousands of my hard-earned dollars to buy into this system of yours? It's a sure thing!

Excellent point Keyser. I think you have a good grasp of what I'm talking about. I also think you could get a little bit more insight if you try the river influencing technique at home in the privacy of your bathroom or bedroom. I've found these locations to be more private so you can concentrate. One small point on that though. You can switch hands from how I described in my post. Which hand is where is totally up to the player.

ZCore13

I love this

Thank you. :) I love that I'm up for the year. Went 7-14-2 after a 7-0 start to the year. Luckily I had built a nice cushion.

ZCore13

Card influencers are bad for the game and I believe they should be banned. These guys take forever to make their decision while they fiddle with their cards trying to capture the mental focus to convert their flop. One of them at the table is all it takes to put me on tilt and that’s just the pretenders. If a CI really knows what they are doing, I won’t see a good flop all night. Now I admit I experimented with card influencing and for a while I thought I had a technique for the turn, but I just can’t commit to it. It’s just wrong and goes against the spirit of the game. The casinos could control it if they wanted to, but they will not even acknowledge the situation. The truth is CI promotes tilt and nothing builds rake like a whole table on tilt, so the dealers look the other way.

You nailed it right on the head JimRockford, if I may call you that. Now I'm able to influence and make my decision very quickly, most of the time in fractions of a second, but that is because I have been practicing a long time.

I think banning is a little harsh though. Yes, it can be tough when a few influencers are on the same table, but there really aren't that many of us. More and more are trying, especially since a friend of mine influenced/nailed 134 flops in a row. I was at the table and I was pissed. His influencing is much stronger than mine and he is able to supersede my skills. Almost like The Force in Star Wars, but I've never seen Jar Jar Binks at a table. Everyone in the know calls him Monkey Piss, because he doesn't want to get any recognition. But let me tell you, no matter what anyone says and no matter that everyone at the table swore to secrecy that it happened, Monkey Piss can play cards!

I've probably already said too much. I do understand your concern and I hope I can meet you someday, just not on the table for your sake.

ZCore13

lol

This is a joke right?

Boney526,

It may seem like a joke to you, but that's only because you haven't seen the Colonel in action. (Yes, the Colonel is real, as real as the chicken that I'm holding in my greasy hands.) Seeing the Colonel influence and control the cards, in real time, was truly a site to behold. I'll never forget that long sultry night back on Sept 31, 1993, at the table with the Colonel, when he parlayed just a measly $200 into a whopping $200,000. The casino, Dingy Dean, Maggie Moo, Card Shark Controller Charlie, Nick the Pappa Georgio, and everyone else that watched the Colonel that night, will never forget the magic that happened.
-Keyser

Quote: Keyser

Boney526,

It may seem like a joke to you, but that's only because you haven't seen the Colonel in action. (Yes, the Colonel is real, as real as the chicken that I'm holding in my greasy hands.) Seeing the Colonel influence and control the cards, in real time, was truly a site to behold. I'll never forget that long sultry night back on Sept 31, 1993, at the table with the Colonel, when he parlayed just a measly $200 into a whopping $200,000. The casino, Dingy Dean, Maggie Moo, Card Shark Controller Charlie, Nick the Pappa Georgio, and everyone else that watched the Colonel that night, will never forget the magic that happened.
-Keyser

I am confused. Are Monkey Piss and the Colonel the same guy? I heard the story of that rainy night in Bossier City from a woman at the Venetian, but she called him Monkey Piss.

Wow. Seems like maybe there are more card influencers than I thought. And maybe even at a higher level.

I will be working on my skills on Friday Night. I wish I was able to keep track of or remember each flop for posting the next day. I don't think the room will allow me to be writing things down and I don't think the Patron will allow me to remember much of it. If I can just influence a small percentage of the cards, it's a +EV night for me and all downhill from there.

ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

I also think you could get a little bit more insight if you try the river influencing technique at home in the privacy of your bathroom or bedroom.

I tried influencing the river in my bathroom. It didn't go well, and my wife made me clean it up.

Quote: Zcore13

Hi all,

I've been keeping detailed statistics on my poker play for the year. I've been playing poker since 1992. 7 Card Stud was the game of choice back then. Then switched to Texas Hold'em when that became the trend. I also sometimes play Omaha Hi/Lo when I get a little tired of Hold'em. I would consider myself pretty good, estimating that I win a few thousand dollars a year every year playing recreational $3-$6 limit, $2-$20 spread, $5-$150 spread and some No Limit.

I believe I am able to influence the flop, turn and river by how I hold the cards in my hand. The reason I believe this is because I seem to win more than most people I know. I will first list my statistics for the year. These are 100% true, as I have an android program that I use to track the type of game, length of play, buy-in, cash-out, etc. After that i will explain my grips and practice methods. Note I had an amazing start to the year, winning each of the first 7 times I played and only lost in 1 of my first 11. Also, my cash out amounts are usually in round numbers because I tip any extra dollars I have as I'm leaving.

2013 Play History

#1 $3/$6 Omaha H/L - 6 hours 40 minutes - In $150 Out $350 (+$200)
#2 $3/$6 Hold'em - 6 hours 15 minutes - In $100 Out $320 (+120)
#3 $2-$20 Hold'em - 7 hours 13 minutes - In $100 Out $145 (+45)
$4 $2-$20 Hold'em - 6 hours 12 minutes - In $100 Out $340 (+$240)
#5 $3/$6 Hold'em - 4 hours 10 minutes - In $100 Out $140 (+$40)
#6 $3/$6 Hold'em - 4 hours 7 minutes - In $100 Out $293 (+$193)
#7 $5-$150 Hold'em - 2 hours 2 minutes - In $133 Out $510 (+$377)
#8 $3/$6 Hold'em - 4 hours 5 minutes - In $100 Out $33 (-$67)
#9 $3/$6 Hold'em - 1 hour 1 minute - In $100 Out $100 (even)
#10 $3/$6 Hold'em - 1 hour 41 minutes - In $100 Out $100 (even)
#11 $5-$150 Hold'em - 0 hours 39 minutes - In $120 Out $234 (+$114)
#12 $2-$20 Hold'em - 2 hours 10 minutes - In $220 Out $136 (-$84)
#13 $2-$20 Hold'em - 2 hours 3 minutes - In $120 Out $54 (-$64)
#14 $3/$6 Hold'em - 1 hour 4 minutes - In $74 out $135 (+$61)
#15 $5-$150 Hold'em - 1 hour 26 minutes - In $310 Out $54 (-256)
#16 $3/$6 Hold'em - 0 hours 26 minutes - In $100 Out $95 (-$5)
#17 $2-$20 Hold'em - 2 hours 10 minutes - In $160 Out $0 (-$160)
#18 $3/$6 Hold'em - 0 hours 58 minutes - In $100 Out $74 (-$26)
#19 $5-$150 Hold'em - 1 hour 39 minutes - In $174 Out $369 (+$195)
#20 $5-$150 Hold'em - 1 hour 53 minutes - In $200 Out $98 (-$102)
#21 $3/$6 Hold'em - 2 hours 14 minutes - In $100 Out $0 (-$100)
#22 $3/$6 Hold'em - 1 hour 53 minutes - In $110 Out $103 (-$7)
#23 $2-$20 Hold'em - 1 hour 15 minutes - In $150 Out $295 (+$145)
#24 $2-$20 Hold'em - 5 hours 45 minutes - In $200 Out $150 (-$50)
#25 $3/$6 Hold'em - 1 hour 30 minutes - In $100 Out $23(-$77)
#26 $2-$20 Hold'em 1 hour 3 minutes - In $123 Out $190 (+$67)
#27 $3/$6 Hold'em - 3 hours 12 minutes - In $100 Out $91 (-$9)
#28 $2-$20 Hold'em - 5 hours 52 minutes - In $120 Out $457 (+$337)
#29 $2-$8 Hold'em - 3 hours 10 minutes - In $200 Out $69 (Yesterday) (-$31)
#30 $5-$150 Hold'em - 0 hours 55 minutes - In $160 Out $500 (Yesterday) (+$340)

So in 30 sessions I won 14, broke exactly even on 2 and lost 14.
I am up $1,484 for the year.
My average win when I win is $177.
My average loss when I lose is $74.
My longest win streak is 7 sessions.
My longest losing streak is 4 session.

So, it seems that I am better than the average player (at least that I play with I guess). So my question is, is it possible my grip is influencing the flops, turn and river to give me an edge (+EV). Right before the flop I grab the cards with my right thumb and index finger as they are face down, overlapping each other by about 90%, in the lower left corner and kind of flick them up. This seems to get me a lot of good flops. Sometimes the cards must slip in just the tiniest way and the flop is no good for me. I can't seem to get every flop. If I have influenced the flop properly and get to the turn, I usually put my right hand on my cards (protecting them) and press firmly across the cards approximately 80% up the cards towards me. If I'm on that day it seems to work pretty good. Then the river. If I am good enough to get there, I usually just lightly hold my cards down with my right hand (protecting them) and cup my crotch under the table with my left hand. I've won a lot of nice pots doing this.

Early in the year I was influencing/controlling the shit out of the cards. But then again, I have practiced a lot. I also practice the river influencing at home a lot. More in the last 2 years since I've been single. Maybe too much.

Does anyone have any other explanation for these good sessions? I'm thinking of writing a book and holding seminars based on my techniques, but I want to continue to track my progress to make sure I am at the top of my influencing game and can sustain it through an entire year.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and for any comments you might have.

ZCore13

I really, really, really, wish there was some kind of karma or something that I could give you for this post. Here's a picture of Jennifer Tilly instead.

Oh my god. I love you Papa. What I would give for a poker playing girlfriend that looks like that...

ZCore13

Karma is fleeting, a picture of Jennifer Tilly is forever.

Quote: Zcore13

I don't think there's anything to solve. I have the proof. It happened!

ZCore13

ZCore13 you and your crew are the greatest! I love reading all your stuff about card influencing and hang on your every word. Any chance that we could meet up one of these days and follow each other around the casino while broadcasting a play by play report for those who cannot be there? Or even better: Have you ever thought of doing a live broadcast?


Unfortunately, I cannot accept your written data as proof because you could have easily made it up. My policy is to only accept data from others in the form of a video, which cannot lie.


I am curious if you guys ever face any heat from the casinos. After all that would be certain proof that some form of CI does exist. From my own experience, I had a suit once ask if I needed a bathroom break when I was trying to influence my flop, but I was to afraid of being backroomed and so I said no. Then I grabbed my chips at the first opportunity and got the hell out of there! Anyone else face anything like this?


Another thing I want to know is The Colonel's real name so that I can track down the verosity of your claim about him. Won't you please, please, please tell me - after all, word on the street is that he died a few years ago and now has nothing to hide from --- Pleeeeease.......?


By the way, I tried your technique for adjusting my flop but it seemed too stiff. Any ideas as to what I am doing wrong? I'll take your answer off the air. :)


Edit: For all you guys that think this might be a joke, I assure you that it is not. We card influencers (I do not believe that "controlling" is the right word for what I do) are deadly serious. I can't believe anyone would even suggest such a thing - so much so that I may be blocking this forum in the future if no one apologizes soon. Thanks in advance. Most of you guys are great....except for the few of you that suck (and I should hope that you know who you are by now), but I have you blocked anyway. Cheers!

Thanks skrbornevrymin. I understand where you are coming from. I am actually thinking about doing a live broadcast. Kind of like a test lab. I'm looking to get a GoPro cam in the next few weeks and maybe I could use that for the broadcast? I'm not sure. I have a poker table, cards and a shuffler already. The shuffler is from a casino so when the cards are shuffled it will be pretty obvious to all there is no set up.

I will keep the Card Influencing Community (also well known as The CIC) informed as I go. I may need an assistant as well. I will be going to Laughlin in about 6 weeks to fine tune my skills.

It would be great to meet up with you some day so I can review your style and see, if anything, what you are doing wrong. It could be the thumb, index finger, posture, or a bunch of other stuff.

ZCore13

You won almost $50 a session, good for you. Does that mean you held the cards a certain way and that influenced how they were dealt, no. lol.

It's possible in a game where people organize their straights that in a poor quality shuffle, a straight might appear next shuffle; but anyone could get it. Since you only hold 2 cards (or more with Omaha), even that won't happen. I just wonder why this old thread came to the top of my page. lol

hahahahhhahahh

Was that initial post serious?

Quote: billionaireben

You won almost $50 a session, good for you. Does that mean you held the cards a certain way and that influenced how they were dealt, no. lol.

It's possible in a game where people organize their straights that in a poor quality shuffle, a straight might appear next shuffle; but anyone could get it. Since you only hold 2 cards (or more with Omaha), even that won't happen. I just wonder why this old thread came to the top of my page. lol

It should probably be a sticky for all poker players to read. I've gone mostly underground now. To much heat. Some of these smaller joints can be real sweaty about poker card influencers.

A few months back I hit 11 straight trips on the flop.


ZCore13

This thread initially died just before I joined the board. OMG, Zcore! Hysterical. Worth reviving.

Quote: billionaireben

I just wonder why this old thread came to the top of my page. lol

Well done whoever bounced this 3 year old April fools post. No Folks. It wasn't serious.

Quote: OnceDear

Well done whoever bounced this 3 year old April fools post. No Folks. It wasn't serious.

Gotta keep 'em guessing, I like that.

There are two ways to go about it. You can either influence cards, or get really good at guessing cards. I think that it is easier to guess them, so that is where I put my energy. Plus, it is easier to practice. Start by trying to guess one card, and then when you have that down, try to guess another. Then try to guess both together, then add a third, etc. Pretty soon you will be able to take on all comers!

One word of warning, do not go into places where you aren't well known and challenge people in shady bars to card guessing competitions for money. That's a good way to get the deck stuffed up your... I know that for a fact.