Discuss My plays
September 14th, 2012 at 6:39:34 PM
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Whilst playing around with pokerstars I found their new replay tool, named BOOM, and thought I would share my plays, to be discussed.
Any obvious mistakes I made? Good play but unlucky? Chime in!
This hand Is in a pot limit omaha tournament.
This Hand is my exit from a no limit hold'em tourney.
This Hand is a deliberate Stop and Go play.
and this hand just made me wonder what the hell the other guys had.
Any obvious mistakes I made? Good play but unlucky? Chime in!
This hand Is in a pot limit omaha tournament.
This Hand is my exit from a no limit hold'em tourney.
This Hand is a deliberate Stop and Go play.
and this hand just made me wonder what the hell the other guys had.
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September 14th, 2012 at 7:28:43 PM
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First of all, as an American, I hate you. Nothing personal - I just want online poker back. :) On to your hands...
I think the player you were playing against didn't quite know what s/he was doing, honestly. For your hand: With a few exceptions, two pair in the hole (one suit live for a flush) is not typically considered a super strong Omaha hand since you have such few ways of advancing the hand. If you don't hit your 4 outs, you're toast. Your straight options are limited since you're only carrying 2 ranks - the nature of being double-paired. Even if you manage a flush draw, you're only carrying J-high (By example, s/he has your flush covered on this hand).
That said, I don't know what your opponent thought s/he had. There's no live flush draw, On the flop, s/he has one pair without much of a draw. On the turn, S/he's gains a 4 outer to an inside straight straight and another 4 outs to make trips that beat yours, but still wouldn't be a nut hand (There's a straight, 8-Q currently threatening on the board, and hitting her set of A opens up KJ for Broadway that also beats her).
On the good side, at least you isolated this opponent (or, rather, she isolated you by her full raise on top of yours) from the blinds and UTG limper. Once you hit your set - and until the board becomes overly threatening, you did right by playing it hard. The question is, do you drop this hand if the board comes out Qc5h7h instead?
No brainer. You're a 6-1 favorite on the shove. Your opponent pushing QJo is a suicide play or, at best, calling you out for a blind steal. But with QJo, that's a seriously suspect decision even if s/he thinks you're stealing. You still had 3 outs on the river (The remaining 2 K and the case J for a full-house chop). It is impossible to beat stupid people (or, without the ad hominem, bad play) who catch cards.
What is stop and go about this? You are shortstacked and make a pot-sized bet to pick up the blinds/antes with a pre-flop A when the bet is folded to you in UTG+3. On the flop, you're too short-stacked to do anything but push and hope that your opponent didn't catch anything worth calling the flop for. You're somewhat lucky in that him calling your all-in would put him in a crippled position (which calls to question his judgment of calling the original pot-sized bet in the first place) and this increases the likelihood that your bluff (and, really, that's all this is - you are a double-draw away from both a flush and a straight) will work.
Were you willing to exit out on a bluff? If so (and good poker players need to be willing to), you needed to play this just as you did - the bet structure was perfect. If not, you should have never led out to begin with - but in your position, this type of play would be guaranteed death.
Both your opponents were hoping for the board to pair. However, they were each holding cards that the other needed, making your hand stronger in the process (though none of you knew this fact until showdown). Player 1 has a near-nut hand if the board pairs with Queens full of <whatever pairs> and a 10 would make a lower straight (8-Q; remember 2 cards must play in Omaha) for Player 1. Discounting that straight, Player 1 thought s/he had 7 outs on the turn and 10 outs on the river, though you and Player 2 held 3 of those cards in your own hand, greatly changing the strength of her hand. Player 2 was hoping for a K or Q to make <whatever dropped> full of <whatever didn't drop>, except Player 1 had both case Q and you had one of the 2 remaining K. He was down to one out on the flop (even though he thought he had 4)
You flopped and held the nut Broadway straight all the way through and bet it out AND got called twice. Perfect play and good for you.
Quote: Croupier
This hand Is in a pot limit omaha tournament.
I think the player you were playing against didn't quite know what s/he was doing, honestly. For your hand: With a few exceptions, two pair in the hole (one suit live for a flush) is not typically considered a super strong Omaha hand since you have such few ways of advancing the hand. If you don't hit your 4 outs, you're toast. Your straight options are limited since you're only carrying 2 ranks - the nature of being double-paired. Even if you manage a flush draw, you're only carrying J-high (By example, s/he has your flush covered on this hand).
That said, I don't know what your opponent thought s/he had. There's no live flush draw, On the flop, s/he has one pair without much of a draw. On the turn, S/he's gains a 4 outer to an inside straight straight and another 4 outs to make trips that beat yours, but still wouldn't be a nut hand (There's a straight, 8-Q currently threatening on the board, and hitting her set of A opens up KJ for Broadway that also beats her).
On the good side, at least you isolated this opponent (or, rather, she isolated you by her full raise on top of yours) from the blinds and UTG limper. Once you hit your set - and until the board becomes overly threatening, you did right by playing it hard. The question is, do you drop this hand if the board comes out Qc5h7h instead?
Quote: Croupier
This Hand is my exit from a no limit hold'em tourney.
No brainer. You're a 6-1 favorite on the shove. Your opponent pushing QJo is a suicide play or, at best, calling you out for a blind steal. But with QJo, that's a seriously suspect decision even if s/he thinks you're stealing. You still had 3 outs on the river (The remaining 2 K and the case J for a full-house chop). It is impossible to beat stupid people (or, without the ad hominem, bad play) who catch cards.
Quote: Croupier
This Hand is a deliberate Stop and Go play.
What is stop and go about this? You are shortstacked and make a pot-sized bet to pick up the blinds/antes with a pre-flop A when the bet is folded to you in UTG+3. On the flop, you're too short-stacked to do anything but push and hope that your opponent didn't catch anything worth calling the flop for. You're somewhat lucky in that him calling your all-in would put him in a crippled position (which calls to question his judgment of calling the original pot-sized bet in the first place) and this increases the likelihood that your bluff (and, really, that's all this is - you are a double-draw away from both a flush and a straight) will work.
Were you willing to exit out on a bluff? If so (and good poker players need to be willing to), you needed to play this just as you did - the bet structure was perfect. If not, you should have never led out to begin with - but in your position, this type of play would be guaranteed death.
Quote: Croupier
and this hand just made me wonder what the hell the other guys had.
Both your opponents were hoping for the board to pair. However, they were each holding cards that the other needed, making your hand stronger in the process (though none of you knew this fact until showdown). Player 1 has a near-nut hand if the board pairs with Queens full of <whatever pairs> and a 10 would make a lower straight (8-Q; remember 2 cards must play in Omaha) for Player 1. Discounting that straight, Player 1 thought s/he had 7 outs on the turn and 10 outs on the river, though you and Player 2 held 3 of those cards in your own hand, greatly changing the strength of her hand. Player 2 was hoping for a K or Q to make <whatever dropped> full of <whatever didn't drop>, except Player 1 had both case Q and you had one of the 2 remaining K. He was down to one out on the flop (even though he thought he had 4)
You flopped and held the nut Broadway straight all the way through and bet it out AND got called twice. Perfect play and good for you.
September 14th, 2012 at 7:44:20 PM
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No offence taken. I would hate me too.
1. I got the impression they were not familliar with omaha. Thats what I hope for in micro stakes. And to be honest, I only know omaha a little more than them. just enough to be dangerous. to me.
Do I drop the hand on a different board? like a shot.
2. Thats what I wnated to hear. I only posted that because I was feeling sorry for myself.
3. That hand was pure gamble. The mid late position and short stack meant I was shoving first and asking questions later. I was hoping to rep whatever hit, be it a set or AK and that they didnt hit. I got away with it.
4.I was scared shitless by the two callers. I just didnt know where I was.
Interesting side note. I didnt cash in any of these tourneys.
Thanks for the reply.
1. I got the impression they were not familliar with omaha. Thats what I hope for in micro stakes. And to be honest, I only know omaha a little more than them. just enough to be dangerous. to me.
Do I drop the hand on a different board? like a shot.
2. Thats what I wnated to hear. I only posted that because I was feeling sorry for myself.
3. That hand was pure gamble. The mid late position and short stack meant I was shoving first and asking questions later. I was hoping to rep whatever hit, be it a set or AK and that they didnt hit. I got away with it.
4.I was scared shitless by the two callers. I just didnt know where I was.
Interesting side note. I didnt cash in any of these tourneys.
Thanks for the reply.
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September 14th, 2012 at 7:56:20 PM
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2 - There's nothing you could do. S/He *wanted* to give you his/her chips with a play like that. Crap like this happens EVERY SINGLE TIME this situation presents itself. Yeah, yeah, math, whatever :-). EVERY TIME!
4 - If you really didn't know where you were - if you didn't see that you had the 10-A straight and that that hand was the best hand possible - on #4, you should have played it more slowly. If you know what the scare cards are - a 3-flush on the board or a paired-board. Other than those two things, your Broadway (10-A straight) is the nuts.
Honestly, by the river, I thought you chopped it 2 ways. Someone had it with you, and someone was playing 2 pair or a set. So, of the 3 hands I had in mind, 2 of them hit... and it worked out for you :)
I do funny things in live poker in similar situations on a river bet. I'll count on my fingers to make sure there's no wonky straight flush to beat my nut flush or to count the # of each suit aloud when I have a nut straight, just to make sure I'm not being an idiot.
4 - If you really didn't know where you were - if you didn't see that you had the 10-A straight and that that hand was the best hand possible - on #4, you should have played it more slowly. If you know what the scare cards are - a 3-flush on the board or a paired-board. Other than those two things, your Broadway (10-A straight) is the nuts.
Honestly, by the river, I thought you chopped it 2 ways. Someone had it with you, and someone was playing 2 pair or a set. So, of the 3 hands I had in mind, 2 of them hit... and it worked out for you :)
I do funny things in live poker in similar situations on a river bet. I'll count on my fingers to make sure there's no wonky straight flush to beat my nut flush or to count the # of each suit aloud when I have a nut straight, just to make sure I'm not being an idiot.
September 14th, 2012 at 8:06:00 PM
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4 - If you really didn't know where you were - if you didn't see that you had the 10-A straight and that that hand was the best hand possible - on #4, you should have played it more slowly. If you know what the scare cards are - a 3-flush on the board or a paired-board. Other than those two things, your Broadway (10-A straight) is the nuts
I knew I had the nut straight, what I mean is I just couldnt put the other 2 on hands. It did happen fairly quickly, but was still scary as hell. At work I see people do stuff like that all the time. Im also pretty accurate at putting our regular players on hands. I just wiah I could play them..
I knew I had the nut straight, what I mean is I just couldnt put the other 2 on hands. It did happen fairly quickly, but was still scary as hell. At work I see people do stuff like that all the time. Im also pretty accurate at putting our regular players on hands. I just wiah I could play them..
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