calling all doubters

we already know this but its a brand new video about it so here ya go

Good video. So good I can't think of anything to fault it for.

First off, I think it’s time to recognize the people who claimed this was possible - hell more likely than probable that it was happening somewhere.

Sure, in regulated environments it may not have been happening… but I’ll tell you that the procedure for fixing and cleaning those things at my local casino barely involves security in any way. They pile them up and do it all out on the casino floor in the open. Give me one good distraction and I’ll get whatever they had in that video on to one in no time. Hell it might be easier to bribe the tech to just put it on one specific one.

Ron Harris told everyone there was vulnerabilities with the slots because of his trusted position and look what he did and how long ago it happened.

As soon as these things came out there is no doubt in my mind that some engineer knew this and this is our stoopid way of telling the public. Wrapped up nicely so our brains don’t say waiiit a minute!

Also I can’t stop thinking about that quote that Dave miller said in his thread about the shuffle master guy he knew that said something about a new shuffle rather than a new game.

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I would think - but I admit that I am not sure - that if a player was caught putting a device into that machine as shown in the vid that it may be an offense that could result in the player being criminally charged

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wow.. good thing i'm not that hard core of a poker player to goto private games with a card shuffler .

So I watched the video. Three questions come to mind (1) Why TF would a manufacturer include working USB ports?I know that certain motherboard manufacturers supply boards with ethernet, but a hardware lockout isn't too hard to do, even if it's some dude with a soldering iron breaking connections. Even a screw on cover plate would suffice. (2) Why TF would a casino allow a patron to plug anything in to a piece of casino equipment? Phone's going dead? There's powerbanks available for sale at the gift shop. (3) Why TF would a casino allow a player to use a cellphone or a computing device while a hand is in progress, even after they've folded?? Either step away from the table for the duration of the hand or wait until the hand is completed. If the player don't like it, oh well.

Quote: GenoDRPh

(3) Why TF would a casino allow a player to use a cellphone or a computing device while a hand is in progress, even after they've folded?? Either step away from the table for the duration of the hand or wait until the hand is completed. If the player don't like it, oh well.
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I'm still thinking that for anyone who can subversively reprogram the shuffler, adding a minor enhancement to the cell phone app to allow either player to fold out and use the vibrate buzzer as a thumper is only a minor amount of incremental work.

Quote: Dieter

Quote: GenoDRPh

(3) Why TF would a casino allow a player to use a cellphone or a computing device while a hand is in progress, even after they've folded?? Either step away from the table for the duration of the hand or wait until the hand is completed. If the player don't like it, oh well.
link to original post

I'm still thinking that for anyone who can subversively reprogram the shuffler, adding a minor enhancement to the cell phone app to allow either player to fold out and use the vibrate buzzer as a thumper is only a minor amount of incremental work.
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Because people like to use their phones at the table, and the risk of cheating falls on other players not the casino directly in poker, so the casino calculus to allow phones at the table is very different for poker than other table games.

Quote: GenoDRPh

So I watched the video. Three questions come to mind (1) Why TF would a manufacturer include working USB ports?I...
link to original post

Most modern machines have a USB port on them, for charging use but I don't know if they transfer any data too.

But to include them on a shuffler would make for great security, if you do it right. That is known as "air gapped" or a "Nike network."

The way you would do it with shufflers is: you have an app running on a PC and that sets up a USB stick, writes an "auth.dat" file with the operator's password and the day's work. Retrieve logs, purge logs, update software, user and password maintenance etc. and all of those tasks would require a different level of authority. Changing passwords or adding/removing/promoting users would likely be the highest security level.

But then I could take that USB stick and hand it to any employee, "Put it into each machine, wait until the light turns green and go to the next machine, then bring it back to me." The shuffler detects when a USB has been inserted, goes to the auth.dat for the password and task list, makes sure there is proper authorization and does what it is supposed to do, with everything it needs available on that USB. Now I can put that USB back into the PC and it has all the logs and all the records of the tasks that were just done, but nothing is connected to the shufflers or the maintenance PC. Impossible to hack without physical access!

Of course the USB stick would be encrypted too, in case it gets lost, stolen, or misused while the employee is walking around with it but that's no big deal because each shuffler would have the decryption password.

It has been my impression that shufflers on table games are accessible by casinos for the purpose of forensics on specific hands and/or for centralized accumulation of certain kinds of data (say on a daily basis) such as number of wins and losses by players against the dealers. Access to these shufflers must either be by an external port (USB or ethernet) or by a wireless connection. I would find the concept of a wireless connection to a shuffler to be an even scarier vulnerability than a USB port.

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

Quote: GenoDRPh

So I watched the video. Three questions come to mind (1) Why TF would a manufacturer include working USB ports?I...
link to original post

Most modern machines have a USB port on them, for charging use but I don't know if they transfer any data too.

But to include them on a shuffler would make for great security, if you do it right. That is known as "air gapped" or a "Nike network."

The way you would do it with shufflers is: you have an app running on a PC and that sets up a USB stick, writes an "auth.dat" file with the operator's password and the day's work. Retrieve logs, purge logs, update software, user and password maintenance etc. and all of those tasks would require a different level of authority. Changing passwords or adding/removing/promoting users would likely be the highest security level.

But then I could take that USB stick and hand it to any employee, "Put it into each machine, wait until the light turns green and go to the next machine, then bring it back to me." The shuffler detects when a USB has been inserted, goes to the auth.dat for the password and task list, makes sure there is proper authorization and does what it is supposed to do, with everything it needs available on that USB. Now I can put that USB back into the PC and it has all the logs and all the records of the tasks that were just done, but nothing is connected to the shufflers or the maintenance PC. Impossible to hack without physical access!

Of course the USB stick would be encrypted too, in case it gets lost, stolen, or misused while the employee is walking around with it but that's no big deal because each shuffler would have the decryption password.
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When we were first putting USB ports for charging on slot machines we would disable the data lines and only leave +5 and GND active.

There was an obviously mendacious claim made elsewhere that a shuffler could be "reprogrammed in about ten minutes" to cheat, without connecting anything to it.

Here, a combination of hardware, software hacking by physically connecting a device to the machine, something which the manufacturer claims has already been addressed, and mechanics, are needed for some of the "tricks."

In any case, does this mean that this

For now, the IOActive researchers say they haven't yet had time to engineer a technique that would cause the Deckmate to put the deck in the exact order of their choosing.

from August 9, 2023, no longer applies?

Four to five 7 of spades get dealt in a row, something is fishy, but it could pay off in single player Spanish 21.

Quote: Phillyboy

Quote: MDawg

There was an obviously mendacious claim made elsewhere that a shuffler could be "reprogrammed in about ten minutes" to cheat, without connecting anything to it.

Here, a combination of hardware, software hacking by physically connecting a device to the machine, something which the manufacturer claims has already been addressed, and mechanics, are needed for some of the "tricks."

In any case, does this mean that this

For now, the IOActive researchers say they haven't yet had time to engineer a technique that would cause the Deckmate to put the deck in the exact order of their choosing.]

Message by sock puppet deleted by administrator.

link to original post

Who is this heroed masked man? Respect for shedding some light on just a small amount of the total debauchery that has been happening constantly.


FYI, I'm not sure I have ever seen the F word being used by certain individuals, even if implied.

Quote: Phillyboy

Quote: MDawg

There was an obviously mendacious claim made elsewhere that a shuffler could be "reprogrammed in about ten minutes" to cheat, without connecting anything to it.

Here, a combination of hardware, software hacking by physically connecting a device to the machine, something which the manufacturer claims has already been addressed, and mechanics, are needed for some of the "tricks."

In any case, does this mean that this

For now, the IOActive researchers say they haven't yet had time to engineer a technique that would cause the Deckmate to put the deck in the exact order of their choosing.]

Redacted by gordonm888, Administrator.


link to original post

Suspended for 7 days.
1. Importing drama from other forums
2. Using objectionable language that slurs a category of people
3. Borderline personal attack

Other administrators are welcome to nuke this account for being a sock puppet. I just haven't yet done my homework on it.

Quote: DRich

When we were first putting USB ports for charging on slot machines we would disable the data lines and only leave +5 and GND active.
link to original post

Ha, I have a USB "condom" data blocker that does the same thing, but on my end, for charging via "strange" outlets!

Quote: Joeman

Quote: DRich

When we were first putting USB ports for charging on slot machines we would disable the data lines and only leave +5 and GND active.
link to original post

Ha, I have a USB "condom" data blocker that does the same thing, but on my end, for charging via "strange" outlets!
link to original post

This?
https://www.amazon.com/PortaPow-3rd-Gen-Data-Blocker/dp/B00T0DW3F8/

Yeah. Well, not that particular model, but one very similar.