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RealizeGaming
RealizeGaming
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GialmereJoemanMrCasinoGames
July 15th, 2020 at 10:12:30 AM permalink
Here is our first of several upcoming keno games. I personally don't play keno, but the games we are working on provide some excitement to what I consider to be a kind of boring game.

Pick your numbers and sit back and watch the action. If you receive a red (MultiDraw ball), it will randomly award additional draws and random multipliers.

If you have any questions or feedback, please let me know.

Demo: http://realizegamingllc.com/dev/multidrawKeno/

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RealizeGaming
July 15th, 2020 at 3:57:11 PM permalink
Quote: RealizeGaming

Here is our first of several upcoming keno games. I personally don't play keno, but the games we are working on provide some excitement to what I consider to be a kind of boring game.

Pick your numbers and sit back and watch the action. If you receive a red (MultiDraw ball), it will randomly award additional draws and random multipliers.

If you have any questions or feedback, please let me know.

Demo: http://realizegamingllc.com/dev/multidrawKeno/



The option to thank you for making games in general and allowing us to do the things that people do on here. Because I have no idea lol
gordonm888
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gordonm888
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July 15th, 2020 at 6:30:16 PM permalink
In the Demo game, the player's bet is listed as 1+1. What does that mean?

Is it just 2 units on every hand?
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
Gialmere
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July 15th, 2020 at 7:20:52 PM permalink
Why it's there no payoff for a catch of 0 when making a large number selection? It should be an easy carrot to dangle considering the bonus balls would all work against it.
Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.
Joeman
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July 16th, 2020 at 5:59:36 AM permalink
I don't play VK very often, but I like this variation. I do have a couple of suggestions about mainly the display.

When the bonus is revealed, can you show both the number of balls and the multiplier at the same time? And I think it would have better effect if the bonus results were more noticeable. Perhaps you could flash the # of balls and multiplier in the area right above the original 20 balls, where the bonus balls are displayed.

Also, is it possible to show the number on the bonus ball? I like to watch the balls drop for my numbers, but when the bonus ball comes out, it only has a star. It appears that the bonus ball does represent one of the numbers, but that number isn't revealed until after the bonus is revealed.

Quote: Gialmere

Why it's there no payoff for a catch of 0 when making a large number selection? It should be an easy carrot to dangle considering the bonus balls would all work against it.

I was thinking the same thing, but as a player, how infuriating would it be to get 0 hits only to have the bonus ball give you 10 more balls (giving you 1 or 2 hits) and a 5x multiplier?
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
RealizeGaming
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July 16th, 2020 at 6:07:37 AM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

In the Demo game, the player's bet is listed as 1+1. What does that mean?

Is it just 2 units on every hand?



The 1 + 1 bet is really a total bet of two units. We have always tried to separate the bet to show that the base bet is 1 unit plus the additional 1 unit bet for the bonus opportunity.
DRich
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July 16th, 2020 at 6:33:03 AM permalink
What is the payback of the base game and the payback of the bonus bet?
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RealizeGaming
RealizeGaming
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July 16th, 2020 at 6:35:51 AM permalink
Quote: Gialmere

Why it's there no payoff for a catch of 0 when making a large number selection? It should be an easy carrot to dangle considering the bonus balls would all work against it.



Good question. I think with keno there are so many ways to adjust the pay scale which leads to a variety of ways to structure the return. In our case, we decided against paying for zero hits, but it is a good idea.
RealizeGaming
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July 16th, 2020 at 6:39:58 AM permalink
Quote: Joeman

I don't play VK very often, but I like this variation. I do have a couple of suggestions about mainly the display.

When the bonus is revealed, can you show both the number of balls and the multiplier at the same time? And I think it would have better effect if the bonus results were more noticeable. Perhaps you could flash the # of balls and multiplier in the area right above the original 20 balls, where the bonus balls are displayed.

Also, is it possible to show the number on the bonus ball? I like to watch the balls drop for my numbers, but when the bonus ball comes out, it only has a star. It appears that the bonus ball does represent one of the numbers, but that number isn't revealed until after the bonus is revealed.

I was thinking the same thing, but as a player, how infuriating would it be to get 0 hits only to have the bonus ball give you 10 more balls (giving you 1 or 2 hits) and a 5x multiplier?



Glad you like it Joeman. I will look into seeing if we can improve the effects of revealing the extra balls and multipliers. Thanks for the suggestion.

I will also look at when the number is revealed on the bonus ball.
RealizeGaming
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July 16th, 2020 at 6:43:50 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

What is the payback of the base game and the payback of the bonus bet?



I will check with my math guy before I say anything that may be inaccurate, but click on the "i" button in the upper left hand corner and it will show you the RTP for the entire game. I'm not a keno player at all, but I'm pretty sure the RTP for keno isn't close to 100%, but in our game we wanted to show the potential of the concept so we opted for a more enjoyable return.
gordonm888
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July 16th, 2020 at 8:05:19 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

What is the payback of the base game and the payback of the bonus bet?



This is what I am currently calculating for RTP when you don't get a Red Ball, and for when you do get a Red Ball. When I combine them I don't get agreement with RealizeGaming's numbers, but I have not yet been able to find my error(s).


Numbers Picked
No Red Ball RTP
Red Ball RTP
Total RTP
Quoted RTP
1
0.5
1.004997
0.82754086
0.9621
2
0.5
1.004997
0.82754086
0.9621
3
0.451315
1.005534
0.810781329
0.9455
4
0.448823
1.021180
0.820053571
0.957
5
0.297566
1.137409
0.842288243
0.9938
6
0.319266
1.104856
0.828799412
0.9765
7
0.322280
1.125509
0.843254405
0.9942
8
0.233721
1.138249
0.820397969
0.9727
9
0.240579
1.049738
0.76539929
0.9068
10
0.246148
1.148563
0.831454504
0.986
11
0.211856
1.120330
0.801092311
0.9507
12
0.273963
1.126439
0.826878906
0.9776
13
0.278526
1.153831
0.846248695
1.0004
14
0.312576
1.147463
0.854083658
1.0072
15
0.267476
1.158171
0.845180913
1.0009


The Total RTP column is based on a red ball appearing with a frequency of 0.6486.

When a red ball is present, the multipliers account for increasing the RTP, on average, by a factor of 1.6164. The rest of the increase in RTP when a Red Ball appears is attributable to the additional draws, ranging from +1 to +10.

My calculations are all done using combination math, not simulations.
Last edited by: gordonm888 on Jul 16, 2020
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
RealizeGaming
RealizeGaming
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July 17th, 2020 at 6:06:02 AM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

This is what I am currently calculating for RTP when you don't get a Red Ball, and for when you do get a Red Ball. When I combine them I don't get agreement with RealizeGaming's numbers, but I have not yet been able to find my error(s).


Numbers Picked
No Red Ball RTP
Red Ball RTP
Total RTP
Quoted RTP
1
0.5
1.004997
0.82754086
0.9621
2
0.5
1.004997
0.82754086
0.9621
3
0.451315
1.005534
0.810781329
0.9455
4
0.448823
1.021180
0.820053571
0.957
5
0.297566
1.137409
0.842288243
0.9938
6
0.319266
1.104856
0.828799412
0.9765
7
0.322280
1.125509
0.843254405
0.9942
8
0.233721
1.138249
0.820397969
0.9727
9
0.240579
1.049738
0.76539929
0.9068
10
0.246148
1.148563
0.831454504
0.986
11
0.211856
1.120330
0.801092311
0.9507
12
0.273963
1.126439
0.826878906
0.9776
13
0.278526
1.153831
0.846248695
1.0004
14
0.312576
1.147463
0.854083658
1.0072
15
0.267476
1.158171
0.845180913
1.0009


The Total RTP column is based on a red ball appearing with a frequency of 0.6486.

When a red ball is present, the multipliers account for increasing the RTP, on average, by a factor of 1.6164. The rest of the increase in RTP when a Red Ball appears is attributable to the additional draws, ranging from +1 to +10.

My calculations are all done using combination math, not simulations.



gordonm888,

Hard to argue with your math you provided. I think the appearance of the multipliers is what attributes to the difference in RTP between yours and ours. Your numbers seem to be the RTP expected in most keno games.
gordonm888
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gordonm888
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RealizeGamingMrCasinoGames
July 17th, 2020 at 9:32:39 AM permalink
I did a check on my calculations for frequency of hits and compared it to the results you have posted on your information page of the demo. Here is an example.

Player Picks 5 Numbers

Hits
Payout
Freq, % (RG Simul)
Freq,% (Gordon calcs)
Return (w/o mult)
0
0
17.659190
17.66139845
0
1
0
37.260590
37.25610053
0
2
0
30.460460
30.45880463
0
3
2
12.100430
12.1036472
0.242072944
4
30
2.342790
2.34313486
0.702940458
5
100
0.176550
0.176914335
0.176914335
Total
1
1
1.121927737


So the agreement in frequency is excellent. My calcs should be theoretically precise.

The Return (without multipliers) is 1.122 units, and given the initial wager of 2 units, the RTP (w/o multipliers) when player picks 5 numbers is 56.1%. I'll address multipliers in my next post.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
gordonm888
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ksdjdjRealizeGamingMrCasinoGames
July 17th, 2020 at 9:51:14 AM permalink
I have found an error in the way I interpreted the frequency of multipliers. Although, to be fair, your information page described the Frequency of Multipliers table in two different ways:

- Frequency of multipliers in all rounds played (which appears to be correct definition)
- Frequency of multipliers in all rounds with extra balls

I previously used the latter definition, but when I use the first definition I get good agreement with your team's simulation results:
Numbers Picked
No Red Ball RTP
Red Ball RTP
Combined RTP
Quoted RTP
1
0.5
1.212633
0.96221375
0.9621
2
0.5
1.212633
0.96221375
0.9621
3
0.451315
1.213281
0.945526231
0.9455
4
0.448823
1.232159
0.956895017
0.957
5
0.297566
1.372402
0.99470481
0.9938
6
0.319266
1.333123
0.976853713
0.9765
7
0.322280
1.358044
0.994076379
0.9942
8
0.233721
1.373416
0.972927162
0.9727
9
0.240579
1.266618
0.906067626
0.9068
10
0.246148
1.385861
0.985365774
0.986
11
0.211856
1.351795
0.951220276
0.9507
12
0.273963
1.359166
0.977825451
0.9776
13
0.278526
1.392217
1.000865863
1.0004
14
0.312576
1.384533
1.007847516
1.0072
15
0.267476
1.397454
1.000379723
1.0009



Again, my RTP numbers should be precise because they are based on combinatorial number theory.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
RealizeGaming
RealizeGaming
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MrCasinoGamesgordonm888
July 19th, 2020 at 8:25:23 AM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

I have found an error in the way I interpreted the frequency of multipliers. Although, to be fair, your information page described the Frequency of Multipliers table in two different ways:

- Frequency of multipliers in all rounds played (which appears to be correct definition)
- Frequency of multipliers in all rounds with extra balls

I previously used the latter definition, but when I use the first definition I get good agreement with your team's simulation results:

Numbers Picked
No Red Ball RTP
Red Ball RTP
Combined RTP
Quoted RTP
1
0.5
1.212633
0.96221375
0.9621
2
0.5
1.212633
0.96221375
0.9621
3
0.451315
1.213281
0.945526231
0.9455
4
0.448823
1.232159
0.956895017
0.957
5
0.297566
1.372402
0.99470481
0.9938
6
0.319266
1.333123
0.976853713
0.9765
7
0.322280
1.358044
0.994076379
0.9942
8
0.233721
1.373416
0.972927162
0.9727
9
0.240579
1.266618
0.906067626
0.9068
10
0.246148
1.385861
0.985365774
0.986
11
0.211856
1.351795
0.951220276
0.9507
12
0.273963
1.359166
0.977825451
0.9776
13
0.278526
1.392217
1.000865863
1.0004
14
0.312576
1.384533
1.007847516
1.0072
15
0.267476
1.397454
1.000379723
1.0009



Again, my RTP numbers should be precise because they are based on combinatorial number theory.



gordonm888 your skills are incredible! Thank you so much for confirming the math for this game. I can't even begin to think about how long it took you to do it.
RealizeGaming
RealizeGaming
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July 24th, 2020 at 6:32:34 AM permalink
Game has been updated with the math to show the RTP and a few other nice little features requested on here.

Demo:
https://realizegamingllc.com/demo/multidrawKeno/
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