Non payment

I am reminded that I have not posted something I meant to do a couple of days ago. Sometimes the system interrupts stack up and you're managing stack overflow.

Mission, I truly appreciate the neutral tone and welcoming messages you have used in your responses to me. I've said all I have to say about this particular topic. I bear no ill will towards you or any other poster, but it was clear that my line of argument was no persuasive and repeating it was not going to change that. Thank you for a lively discussion.

Quote: Mission146

My goal of maintaining a neutral tone was to speak about this issue in a mature and objective way
link to original post

That seems to have been the problem.

There was no objective way to look at it.

Quote: Mission146

Quote: gordonm888

Well, okay, I will be the one who suspends you 3 days for profanity.

I regret provoking you into this. I think my post was too harsh and a bit unfair and I am sorry for that. You consistently hold yourself to very high ethical standards and while I have been puzzled by the tone of your posts on this subject I should have found a different way to express myself.

I will self-suspend for three days and join you in the 'phantom zone,' because (as we all know) moderators are held to a higher standard. I shouldn't be attacking our members in this way. I'm sorry.
link to original post

I'm still not terribly happy with what your post said, but I accept your apology.

My goal of maintaining a neutral tone was to speak about this issue in a mature and objective way while still making clear that iNetBet is absolutely in the wrong on this issue, at least, in my opinion.
link to original post

Thank you. You are truly one of the good guys of this forum.

Quote: gordonm888

Thank you. You are truly one of the good guys of this forum.
link to original post

I would concur with that and Mission is one of the regulars here whom I have never met.

Quote: Mission146

As state-regulated casinos expand across the country, I give my opinions on what offshore casinos have to do if they ever want to compete:

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/what-offshore-online-casinos-need-to-do/
link to original post

The only things they need to do is to stop looking for reasons to screw players and pay the players within 7 days of cashing out.

You're correct, they need to take out all the BS terms and conditions that are crafted to screw players if they want.
If the max bet is $20, don't allow the games to go above $20. If you have restricted games during a bonus just disable those games during the bonus.

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Mission146

As state-regulated casinos expand across the country, I give my opinions on what offshore casinos have to do if they ever want to compete:

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/what-offshore-online-casinos-need-to-do/
link to original post

The only things they need to do is to stop looking for reasons to screw players and pay the players within 7 days of cashing out.

You're correct, they need to take out all the BS terms and conditions that are crafted to screw players if they want.
If the max bet is $20, don't allow the games to go above $20. If you have restricted games during a bonus just disable those games during the bonus.
link to original post

I have been dreading starting up trips to AC. I'm hoping for quick expansion & legalization across the US
Even if just to the Midwest would be good.

And yeah its going to be interesting how the offshore guys respond as expansion here accelerates.

Quote: rainman

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Mission146

As state-regulated casinos expand across the country, I give my opinions on what offshore casinos have to do if they ever want to compete:

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/what-offshore-online-casinos-need-to-do/
link to original post

The only things they need to do is to stop looking for reasons to screw players and pay the players within 7 days of cashing out.

You're correct, they need to take out all the BS terms and conditions that are crafted to screw players if they want.
If the max bet is $20, don't allow the games to go above $20. If you have restricted games during a bonus just disable those games during the bonus.
link to original post

I have been dreading starting up trips to AC. I'm hoping for quick expansion & legalization across the US
Even if just to the Midwest would be good.

And yeah its going to be interesting how the offshore guys respond as expansion here accelerates.
link to original post

IMO if regulated online casinos become commonplace it will get worse for the offshore players for a while. Once the offshore joints start seeing a decline in profits they will start screwing players left and right until they are just complete rip-off joints... money in and nothing out ever. Perhaps they will make a few exceptions for some addicted whales who rarely win, just to keep them on the hook.

We already have a situation where a "new" casino pops up and they do everything right, fast payouts, good CS with phone support, and representatives on affiliate forums helping players, answering questions, resolving problems, etc. They rise in the rankings while building confidence among players and affiliates across the internet.

They pay their affiliates well.

Now they get listed on tons of affiliate sites with great reviews. At some point, they become rogue. Why go rogue? I don't know, but I suspect people move on to the next flavor of the month. Now it's more profitable screwing players at that point.

Meanwhile, they are still listed with high marks on many affiliate sites that don't give an F. By the time the good affiliates catch on, it's too late.

You may have seen their ridiculous claims before but here is a fresh one from Casino Guru response from today

NetBet prides itself on offering all our players exciting games, fast payouts and excellent customer service. Unfortunately some countries have passed laws that prevent us from offering these services to everyone.



We cannot reasonably undertake to review the legality of online gaming for every jurisdiction, in every country in the world, on an ongoing basis. As such, the first item of our terms of service clearly defines that it is the player's responsibility to determine the legality of their actions prior to participating. Where we become aware of illegal activity on the part of the player we will refund the purchases made as appropriate, and close the account.

Quote: utanfu2

You may have seen their ridiculous claims before but here is a fresh one from Casino Guru response from today

NetBet prides itself on offering all our players exciting games, fast payouts and excellent customer service. Unfortunately some countries have passed laws that prevent us from offering these services to everyone.

We cannot reasonably undertake to review the legality of online gaming for every jurisdiction, in every country in the world, on an ongoing basis. As such, the first item of our terms of service clearly defines that it is the player's responsibility to determine the legality of their actions prior to participating. Where we become aware of illegal activity on the part of the player we will refund the purchases made as appropriate, and close the account.
link to original post

I guess we should just collect a list of all of the jurisdictions in which players cannot legally play at iNetBet and send them an E-Mail so everyone can start getting their refunds.

I'm also quite surprised that iNetBet cares so deeply about the players playing in a way that is legal when they are not operating legally in most of the jurisdictions in which they do.

When you lose everytghing is ok and when you win the casino blame you for not checking the countries laws. from when casinos use this excuse for not paying ? it is very rare to use such a funny reason even by the biggest crooks in the industry they always came with a better reason

They break laws all over the globe and when I win I am to blame , of course we all know it is cheating and fraud but come on, come with a better reason and not such a stupid one for not paying

Quote: utanfu2

You may have seen their ridiculous claims before but here is a fresh one from Casino Guru response from today

NetBet prides itself on offering all our players exciting games, fast payouts and excellent customer service. Unfortunately some countries have passed laws that prevent us from offering these services to everyone.



We cannot reasonably undertake to review the legality of online gaming for every jurisdiction, in every country in the world, on an ongoing basis. As such, the first item of our terms of service clearly defines that it is the player's responsibility to determine the legality of their actions prior to participating. Where we become aware of illegal activity on the part of the player we will refund the purchases made as appropriate, and close the account.
link to original post

Link?

It's not as if Switzerland is a small country.

I would research the law, it may not be illegal for you to play at their casino, but illegal for them to operate there without a license.

I found this but it's only someone's interpretation. Swiss gambling laws do not punish individual players for illegal online gambling.

However, casino operators and suppliers can face up to three years in prison for operating an unlicensed gambling site or advertising to Swiss players.

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: utanfu2

You may have seen their ridiculous claims before but here is a fresh one from Casino Guru response from today

NetBet prides itself on offering all our players exciting games, fast payouts and excellent customer service. Unfortunately some countries have passed laws that prevent us from offering these services to everyone.



We cannot reasonably undertake to review the legality of online gaming for every jurisdiction, in every country in the world, on an ongoing basis. As such, the first item of our terms of service clearly defines that it is the player's responsibility to determine the legality of their actions prior to participating. Where we become aware of illegal activity on the part of the player we will refund the purchases made as appropriate, and close the account.
link to original post

Link?

It's not as if Switzerland is a small country.

I would research the law, it may not be illegal for you to play at their casino, but illegal for them to operate there without a license.

I found this but it's only someone's interpretation. Swiss gambling laws do not punish individual players for illegal online gambling.

However, casino operators and suppliers can face up to three years in prison for operating an unlicensed gambling site or advertising to Swiss players.
link to original post

I wouldn't be surprised if the casino has a banking relationship they don't want to jeopardize.

Quote: billryan

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: utanfu2

You may have seen their ridiculous claims before but here is a fresh one from Casino Guru response from today

NetBet prides itself on offering all our players exciting games, fast payouts and excellent customer service. Unfortunately some countries have passed laws that prevent us from offering these services to everyone.



We cannot reasonably undertake to review the legality of online gaming for every jurisdiction, in every country in the world, on an ongoing basis. As such, the first item of our terms of service clearly defines that it is the player's responsibility to determine the legality of their actions prior to participating. Where we become aware of illegal activity on the part of the player we will refund the purchases made as appropriate, and close the account.
link to original post

Link?

It's not as if Switzerland is a small country.

I would research the law, it may not be illegal for you to play at their casino, but illegal for them to operate there without a license.

I found this but it's only someone's interpretation. Swiss gambling laws do not punish individual players for illegal online gambling.

However, casino operators and suppliers can face up to three years in prison for operating an unlicensed gambling site or advertising to Swiss players.
link to original post

I wouldn't be surprised if the casino has a banking relationship they don't want to jeopardize.
link to original post

Please elaborate.

They have had almost 3 years since Switzerland came up with laws for this stuff.

If that were the case, why did/do they allow players to sign up and deposit from Switzerland? Why did they offer him 2k? A large number of casinos restrict IP coming from restricted casinos even crappie little casinos with bad reputations. It will say some version of this..
CONTENT NOT AVAILABLE
Sorry, this page is not available in your country.

Just an update from Casino Guru . I expected and happy to see the site supporting me in this case, I hope LCB will press them as well and threat to blacklist them

'Thank you for the replies.



Dear casino team,

We understand your point of view, however, we believe that regardless of what the reasoning behind the decision in this case was, the onus should be on the casino, not on the player. The fact that the country utanfu2 is a resident of can be considered one of the jurisdictions gambling is not legal in (which the casino became aware of after the fact) is simply not sufficient as an excuse not to pay out his winnings. In general, as long as a player fills out all of the information in their player profile correctly, and plays by the rules, we believe they should also be allowed to withdraw their winnings. Otherwise in situations like this casinos would be free rolling to get players' money without any risk.

With that being said, we believe that the player’s winnings should be paid in full. In case the casino refuses to comply with our ruling, this complaint will be closed as ‘Against fair gambling’.'

Quote: utanfu2

Just an update from Casino Guru . I expected and happy to see the site supporting me in this case, I hope LCB will press them as well and threat to blacklist them

'Thank you for the replies.



Dear casino team,

We understand your point of view, however, we believe that regardless of what the reasoning behind the decision in this case was, the onus should be on the casino, not on the player. The fact that the country utanfu2 is a resident of can be considered one of the jurisdictions gambling is not legal in (which the casino became aware of after the fact) is simply not sufficient as an excuse not to pay out his winnings. In general, as long as a player fills out all of the information in their player profile correctly, and plays by the rules, we believe they should also be allowed to withdraw their winnings. Otherwise in situations like this casinos would be free rolling to get players' money without any risk.

With that being said, we believe that the player’s winnings should be paid in full. In case the casino refuses to comply with our ruling, this complaint will be closed as ‘Against fair gambling’.'
link to original post

Does the casino have an agreement with this guy to act as a referee?

Quote: billryan

Quote: utanfu2

Just an update from Casino Guru . I expected and happy to see the site supporting me in this case, I hope LCB will press them as well and threat to blacklist them

'Thank you for the replies.



Dear casino team,

We understand your point of view, however, we believe that regardless of what the reasoning behind the decision in this case was, the onus should be on the casino, not on the player. The fact that the country utanfu2 is a resident of can be considered one of the jurisdictions gambling is not legal in (which the casino became aware of after the fact) is simply not sufficient as an excuse not to pay out his winnings. In general, as long as a player fills out all of the information in their player profile correctly, and plays by the rules, we believe they should also be allowed to withdraw their winnings. Otherwise in situations like this casinos would be free rolling to get players' money without any risk.

With that being said, we believe that the player’s winnings should be paid in full. In case the casino refuses to comply with our ruling, this complaint will be closed as ‘Against fair gambling’.'
link to original post

Does the casino have an agreement with this guy to act as a referee?
link to original post

No sir, however the man with the complaint is free to choose whom ever he wishes to represent him in these matters
and he happened to choose a representative who can bring a lot of negative publicity to said adverse party.

The crazy thing...

I noticed they moved up to the #2 player-raked online casino on some affiliate websites. That doesn't line up with the recent comments and the commenter's ratings they are giving them. This leads me to believe shill accounts are being made and those accounts are simply giving the casino 4 stars.

They don't sponsor any card tricks on YouTube do they?

I am very disappointed by LCB reponse. They do have an empact they can do what Gambling Grumbles did and Casino Guru and write a bad report and blacklist them and their sister casinos like Prima Play. I am sure that if they blacklist Inetbet, such a big site like LCB they will pay me in a minute.

The fact LCB is not blacklisting them is a win to the casino. and they will continue to do it to players around the world and other casinos watching it will do it in the industry as well knowing they can get along at Casinomeister or big site like LCB

Here is LCB response

Hello utanfu2,

We've got the update from the Rep that their decision is final, someone from the top clarified this for us. Unfortunately we've been working hard regarding this case to be resolved but we can not make any further impact.

Imagine Inetbet or any casino brand tells LCB we can't pay your commission because your company is registered in a country that disallow online gaming . Wouldn't they blacklist Inetbet in 5 seconds ?

This is exactly what they did to me, blacklisting them in LCB will cause them pay me, I am sure about it

Here's the problem you face. Inetbet has an excuse. Not that it's a legitimate excuse, because it's not. But, it's something.

In the grand scheme of things, Inetbet has a good reputation with very few problems. If the affiliates blacklisted every casino for a few bad decisions, practically all online casinos would be blacklisted. If that were the case no online affiliate sites would exist leaving everyone just blindly guessing and with zero help. LCB has helped many people in getting their funds and resolving problems.

FYI as of now, you can no longer automatically sign up from a Switzerland, at least not using a VPN, it's asking you to contact support. That could simply be that a VPN has been identified, I don't know. I somehow think it's not related to the VPN and all Switzerland IP addresses have that notification. But you already knew this, didn't you?

casinolistings website has just blacklisted them, he I guess disagree with your point of view that every online casino would be blacklisted for 1 case of fraudulent non pay.

and by the way , this is not an excuse , this is cheating and a scam, there was no message like you think there was when I registered from Switzerland, it all worked smoothly and they welcomed my losses and my documents and approval without issue until I won big, a pure classic fraud cheating case.

Here is casinolisting blacklisting them, same did Gambling Grumbles in his report. Unfortunately other sites didn't blacklisted them yet but I am working on it


So I have an update. We have been conducting our own enquiries into this one to double check the facts of the case. It all seems to check out with what utanfu2 is saying so unfortunately for Inetbet I see no other option than the blacklist.

If they want to pick and choose which countries they are willing to accept play from they need to do it at registration and/or login time, not after the player has won and wants to withdraw. I don't buy the "illegality" excuse used as they continue to accept play from a bunch of other countries where legality is questionable at best. Far more likely is that they have hardly any players from Switzerland so they weren't going to lose much in terms of other players by taking this decision. It would be interesting to know if there are any other Swiss players with old accounts there that are still able to log in and play. Anyway I can't see how you can trust them not to do this again if you reside in another country where it may be convenient to pull the same excuse.

Inetbet blacklisted
Inetbet Euro blacklisted

Finally I also note that their European focused sister site, Inetbet Euro, continues to accept play from Switzerland despite having the same sort of worthless Curacao "license". But hang on, they seem to think that is illegal... hmmm.

Quote: utanfu2

casinolistings website has just blacklisted them, he I guess disagree with your point of view that every online casino would be blacklisted for 1 case of fraudulent non pay.

and by the way , this is not an excuse , this is cheating and a scam, there was no message like you think there was when I registered from Switzerland, it all worked smoothly and they welcomed my losses and my documents and approval without issue until I won big, a pure classic fraud cheating case.

Here is casinolisting blacklisting them, same did Gambling Grumbles in his report. Unfortunately other sites didn't blacklisted them yet but I am working on it


So I have an update. We have been conducting our own enquiries into this one to double check the facts of the case. It all seems to check out with what utanfu2 is saying so unfortunately for Inetbet I see no other option than the blacklist.

If they want to pick and choose which countries they are willing to accept play from they need to do it at registration and/or login time, not after the player has won and wants to withdraw. I don't buy the "illegality" excuse used as they continue to accept play from a bunch of other countries where legality is questionable at best. Far more likely is that they have hardly any players from Switzerland so they weren't going to lose much in terms of other players by taking this decision. It would be interesting to know if there are any other Swiss players with old accounts there that are still able to log in and play. Anyway I can't see how you can trust them not to do this again if you reside in another country where it may be convenient to pull the same excuse.

Inetbet blacklisted
Inetbet Euro blacklisted

Finally I also note that their European focused sister site, Inetbet Euro, continues to accept play from Switzerland despite having the same sort of worthless Curacao "license". But hang on, they seem to think that is illegal... hmmm.
link to original post

You are at odds with the wrong person, I'm on your side. I said many of the same things.

Is your goal to get them black-listed, hurt them financially, or get paid?

Blaclisted on a few lower-level sites as their raking is growing on the major affiliate sites is only growing their profits. Good luck.

Quote: AxelWolf

The crazy thing...

I noticed they moved up to the #2 player-raked online casino on some affiliate websites. That doesn't line up with the recent comments and the commenter's ratings they are giving them. This leads me to believe shill accounts are being made and those accounts are simply giving the casino 4 stars.
link to original post

It would be difficult to imagine that iNetBet would be above making shill accounts, at this point.

Quote: Mission146

Quote: AxelWolf

The crazy thing...

I noticed they moved up to the #2 player-raked online casino on some affiliate websites. That doesn't line up with the recent comments and the commenter's ratings they are giving them. This leads me to believe shill accounts are being made and those accounts are simply giving the casino 4 stars.
link to original post

It would be difficult to imagine that iNetBet would be above making shill accounts, at this point.
link to original post

Yeah, this stuff is crazy.

I noticed a brand-new casino has a 4.3 rating out of 5. I'm not sure how that's even possible, so I look at the people that voted and left a comment. Those comments and votes dont seem to be all that good. From what could see at one time the place was so new there didn't seem to be any time for anyone to have gotten paid anything as of yet. You would think that would be the #1 priority when it comes to online casinos is getting paid... Nothing else should matter until a place is known for making payments.

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Mission146

Quote: AxelWolf

The crazy thing...

I noticed they moved up to the #2 player-raked online casino on some affiliate websites. That doesn't line up with the recent comments and the commenter's ratings they are giving them. This leads me to believe shill accounts are being made and those accounts are simply giving the casino 4 stars.
link to original post

It would be difficult to imagine that iNetBet would be above making shill accounts, at this point.
link to original post

Yeah, this stuff is crazy.

I noticed a brand-new casino has a 4.3 rating out of 5. I'm not sure how that's even possible, so I look at the people that voted and left a comment. Those comments and votes dont seem to be all that good. From what could see at one time the place was so new there didn't seem to be any time for anyone to have gotten paid anything as of yet. You would think that would be the #1 priority when it comes to online casinos is getting paid... Nothing else should matter until a place is known for making payments.
link to original post

My general position--not just with online casinos, but with literally any product or service--is to read the individual reviews of the people who took the time to write one. I don't think the overall star rating for anything being high is particularly indicative of a good product or service. That said, a star rating being low is probably a bad sign because it means the product or service is too lazy to get its employees to make shill accounts; alternatively, I guess it could mean that shill accounts are being created to artificially decrease a different company's star rating.

I guess just don't believe in star ratings at all; read the full reviews and be pretty selective about what you want to believe from those. Probably look for common trends in the written reviews.

Quote: Mission146

I guess just don't believe in star ratings at all; read the full reviews and be pretty selective about what you want to believe from those. Probably look for common trends in the written reviews.
link to original post

I love reading Yelp reviews of companies but I also understand that 70% of them are B.S. You just have to learn which ones to disregard and which ones have merit. I leave a Yelp review for just about every restaurant I eat at.

Just an update. Today I hit an email to the following webmasters in order to seek help, maybe I fall on a person with a good will to help and maybe even the power to help.

casino bonus club
realmoneyaction
spicycasinos
chipy
askgamblers
nonstopbonus
vegasslotsonline
casinofreak
slotscalendar
gamesandcasino
captaingambling
casinorankings
top10casinos
bestaucasinosonline
gamblerslab
mambabonu
wizardofodds

Re casino complaints, i made this sticky topic under Online Gambling forum, few years ago ( https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/online/31429-submit-your-online-casino-complaint-here/ ) referring complainants to our main site, as thats the best/fastest way for your complaints to be tended to.

Direct link to LCB complaints section: https://lcb.org/onlinecasinobonusforum/player-complaints

Before you can post youll need to register a forum account first.

I dont presonally deal with complaints any longer, but we have a dedicated team of Moderators that will be happy to assist anyone who needs help.

cheers
Zuga

Thank you. I already tried the direct support center in LCB, although they supported my side they could not help me get paid.

The reason I sent an email to you and the wizard of odds was the high rating this group have in the website of wizard of odds, so I thought he may use his power or your power with them.

I believe what they did to me was a blatant fraud