Video of online live BJ cheating
Not sure why they would even do this unless they knew the order of the cards as well.
I'm sure that segment will go viral.
And I'm shocked that it was so openly performed.
Sure, most people think: Live Dealer means I don't have to watch his hands but the dealer is not just looking into a camera he is ALSO lookig at a monitor that shows him the card sequence he is about to deal. He then knows when to misdeal and that is why it is such an uncomfortably long r-e-a-c-h for him, most viewers won't keep turning their heads to look at the shoe.
All that aside, what professional splits 2's against a 10 with a $115 bet in an online NHC game?!?!?!?!
Well. He is a ploppy for sure.Quote: IbeatyouracesI posted that in the "This guy is a hoot" thread.
All that aside, what professional splits 2's against a 10 with a $115 bet in an online NHC game?!?!?!?!
I actually don't think the cheat was deliberate.
I know it looks VERY deliberate, but I've watched that dealer and a few others at BetOnline for a while, and the number of times the shoe has delivered cards badly or two at a time is indicative of shoddy design.
If the casino wanted to pull that stunt, they'd do it on the high roll tables with $1000 + sized bets, not some $60 hand. There are also easier and bigger ways they could cheat discretely
That said, the cards could have a textured back such that his feeling it could read it, and I've seen shoes with built in prisms and cameras.
But it makes no sense.
It would make more sense for that Mike M to fabricate or fake the vid so as to get a viral ad for his site. That is not hard to do, though he's possibly not talented enough to conceive of it or to do so.
Apparently, he's had a satisfactory and corrective response from the sites customer service.
Quote: IbeatyouracesIf you watch the full video, and I mean look everywhere on the screen, he's credited with a win, not a loss. Watch his balance go from $100 to $330. I don't think he noticed that. So in reality, he did win the hand in question.
Apparently, he's had a satisfactory and corrective response from the sites customer service.
Quote: BetOnline Customer Service (allegedly)Subject: BlackJack Cheating
Good day,
Thank you for contacting Customer Support.
Trust this email finds you well.
We would like to profusely apologize on behalf of all parties involved as this was a simple human error. The player would have clearly won the hand in question if the cards were dealt without error.
We have escalated this matter to have the video reviewed as we are unable to do that over here at the CS department and with the review we have seen that there was indeed an error. The player who suffered this loss has been fully reimbursed and further procedures have been put in place to ensure this will not happen again.
We are sincerely sorry that this had happened and apologize for the inconvenience but rest assured the player affected has been reimbursed accordingly and this will not happen again in future.
Thank you for your understanding.
Good luck and enjoy!
If you have any other questions or require further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best Regards,
Bree
Player Services Department
BetOnline,
I agree but it is indeed obvious that the dealer is not permitted to look at the shoe but must look directly into the camera so a claim of 'mistake' might not be so absurd.Quote: gamerfreakI sort of find it hard to believe that a dealer could do this in error. Pushing one card up and taking the one below is a very deliberate motion.
THIS IS VERY BAD FOR BET ONLINE.
I'm wondering if he could have made an agreement with the casino for a nice sum of money not to release the video?
I never really thought live online gambling was any safer than RNG's.
How does the dealer know what the order of the cards are?
Will they be added to blacklists for this?
Whats behind that camera? Probably someone telling him when to cheat.Quote: FleaStiffI agree but it is indeed obvious that the dealer is not permitted to look at the shoe but must look directly into the camera so a claim of 'mistake' might not be so absurd.
Quote: IbeatyouracesI posted that in the "This guy is a hoot" thread.
All that aside, what professional splits 2's against a 10 with a $115 bet in an online NHC game?!?!?!?!
Michael is on first Lawman is third getting dealt the seconds.
Quote: AxelWolfThere is no way in hell THIS GUY caught this happening before, during or after the fact. So my question is, how did he know?????.
MM had unknowingly got that evidence out as part of one of his previous YouTube offerings and one of his Youtube followers brought it to attention after the fact. Then MM homed in on it and kicked off. It's generating MM a fantastic amount of very valuable publicity. As a paying google advertiser, I'd have happily spent 10K to get that much traffic to my site. Very valuable publicity and really pretty bad for BetOnline, though they have already mitigated it by confessing to 'an error'
He's not that bright.Quote:I'm wondering if he could have made an agreement with the casino for a nice sum of money not to release the video?
I did ok with both. The potential for cheating extends way beyond the game into confiscation and welching, which I suffered both of. Once also got a split hand messed up where the dealer dealt to them in the wrong order, but that was cock-up not cheating.Quote:I never really thought live online gambling was any safer than RNG's.
Could be textured back or a cheating device (prism and camera) in the shoe. Since the shoes get moved about and are clearly not wired up, I'd have had to conclude textured back. In fact I conclude that it was just an odd and clumsy card grab that just looks incredibly deliberate but isn't. That kind of systemic cheating would be absurd at those stakes. If anything, it might be that MM bribed him to perform a conspicuous cheat just for the publicity value. Again, I doubt he has the brains to have done that.Quote:How does the dealer know what the order of the cards are?
I expect not, but there will be more eyes on them in future.Quote:Will they be added to blacklists for this?
For info, in front of the dealer is a suspended largish monitor and webcam. Dealers often wear earpieces for listening to supervisors who are off camera at the front of the studio in a screened off area. The monitor shows pretty much what we see + supervisor messages and player chatbox. I believe that supervisors also see a running card count and automated alerts to bet ramping.
Also for info, the video feed can be a few seconds delayed which is why the screen may announce the card scanned before we see the dealer actually take it from the shoe and scan it. That's not cheating but it is sometimes suspected as such.
where he gets all jovial and friendly with someone off camera.
This could be a tactic to draw your eyes to the dealers face and away from his hand.
In any case putting cheating in the title might have been a little accusatory, a bored dealer spacing out might be the more probable explanation.
I've never used this casino, but the live ones I've used, the two shoes are rotated and one is shuffled in plain sight. I don't think they could sneak in a pre-sorted shoe.Quote: gamerfreakEven simpler than textures and prisms, a presorted shoe with an off camera screen showing the next card could be possible, even on a live stream where the "shuffling" is shown.
I think that's the reality.Quote:a bored dealer spacing out might be the more probable explanation.
Quote: OnceDearI've never used this casino, but the live ones I've used, the two shoes are rotated and one is shuffled in plain sight. I don't think they could sneak in a pre-sorted shoe.
Camera tricks can be done even in live shots without visible cutaway.
Something like:
1. Shuffle the shoe live
2. Place shoe on 1/2 of screen
3. With nothing else happening, replace 1/2 screen with non live image of identicle shoe
4. Replace shuffled shoe with sorted shoe
5. Cut back 1/2 screen to live image
They do it with security cameras in spy movies all the time, which is totally like real life.
Ah yes. That would be possible at some such casinos. Not so easy from the ones I use because tables can be viewed from the webcams at other tables. That would be cheating on an industrial scale. I think if they knew the shoe contents in that way, they would use that knowledge without shoddy and visible hand tricks. They would more likely manipulate the populated seats to get losing hands to real players.Quote: gamerfreakCamera tricks can be done even in live shots without visible cutaway.
Something like:
1. Shuffle the shoe live
2. Place shoe on 1/2 of screen
3. With nothing else happening, replace 1/2 screen with non live image of identicle shoe
4. Replace shuffled shoe with sorted shoe
5. Cut back 1/2 screen to live image
They do it with security cameras in spy movies all the time, which is totally like real life.
But it would have to give a great and conspicuous edge to be financially worth the reputational risk.
This is not that.
MM has 250,000 hits to his youtube in a few days. It's more likely to be clever mischief by him, including possible bribery of the dealer.
But I still think, just random and unintended careless finger twitching. Or maybe the dealer has a penchant for practicing his conjuring out of some sense of mischief.
That makes sense. I am now curious who and what lead that person to spotting it? Lucky find or sharp eye?Quote: OnceDearMM had unknowingly got that evidence out as part of one of his previous YouTube offerings and one of his Youtube followers brought it to attention after the fact. .
I do believe this was deliberate. I do not think it was a fluke. I assume this type of stuff goes on way more than we think.
Whether or not the casino is involved is the most important part.
I dont think hes paying off the dealer to do this. If you could do that, you should just pay him off to cheat for you. Why would they just do it once and leave some doubt? I would assume they fired this guy ASAP and threw him under the bus, even if it was a mistake?
I have done well online as well, Even if you take away all the bonuses im way ahead at a few particular online casinos, but that does not lead me to believe they are using legitimate RNG's and playing fair. The fact that im so far ahead without bonuses leads me to believe even more that its not random. I have far too much coin in for me to believe it was just luck.
I played a slot where my bonuses were consistently( each time) 8x - 10x higher than they should have been for and entire day.
I Played a for a while on a .5 VP game with double up that was gaffed in my favor. It was 75%-80% predictable. (that's what brought me back to this site in 2012, I was looking for information on their software)
Hell, look what just went down with Bet Soft.
My initial thoughts are that it certainly looks like the dealer was caught red handed. However, I have some questions, some of which were already raised:
1. Why did the player's balance go from $100 to $330 if his bet was $100?
2. Does this live casino shuffle the cards on screen?
3. Why was this player splitting 2's against a 10? Either player was an idiot or somehow knew the sequence of upcoming cards as the dealer is accused of knowing. I know the player isn't the one being accused but I like to know the whole story whenever I can.
I'm going to write to BetOnline for their comment.
Let's try to keep this thread hot.
Quote: WizardSorry for the late arrival. This deserves to be the most active thread on the forum at the moment.
My initial thoughts are that it certainly looks like the dealer was caught red handed. However, I have some questions, some of which were already raised:
1. Why did the player's balance go from $100 to $330 if his bet was $100?
2. Does this live casino shuffle the cards on screen?
3. Why was this player splitting 2's against a 10? Either player was an idiot or somehow knew the sequence of upcoming cards as the dealer is accused of knowing. I know the player isn't the one being accused but I like to know the whole story whenever I can.
I'm going to write to BetOnline for their comment.
Let's try to keep this thread hot.
1) His bet was $115, not $100. It shows the bet amount underneath his balance.
2) Live on screen that I've seen.
3) If you watch his play in a lot of his videos, he's an idiot player then berates others for not following basic strategy.
I like his enthusiasm toward AP, but he's far from being one.
Quote: Ibeatyouraces1) His bet was $115, not $100. It shows the bet amount underneath his balance.
2) Live on screen that I've seen.
3) If you watch his play in a lot of his videos, he's an idiot player then berates others for not following basic strategy.
1. Thanks. I guess I incorrectly thought it was $100 because there was a black chip on top of his wager.
2. Here is another video of the live dealer casino at BetOnline. You can see somebody shuffling the blue shoe while the dealer deals the red one. Presumably, she would switch to the blue she when she finished with the red one, to not slow down the game.
It would take quite an act for the dealer to know the sequence of cards if they were shuffled on screen. Maybe a false shuffle. However, it defies common sense they would need to cheat a guy betting $115 a hand who splits twos against a 10. This is the kind of player you roll out the red carpet for.
I wish corsets would make a comeback.
Here is a longer version of the video. I'll comment on that later.
Somehow I think there is more to this story than meets the eyes. Or maybe maybe it was just accidental. I wrote to BetOnline for their version about four hours ago. No response yet.
If they don't ever respond, is this something they would be blacklisted for?Quote: Wizard...Somehow I think there is more to this story than meets the eyes. Or maybe maybe it was just accidental. I wrote to BetOnline for their version about four hours ago. No response yet.
why is it now, lawsuit?
Quote: IbeatyouracesThey responded and he was supposedly refunded the money although they clearly never took any in the first place.
The guy who got the misdeal was not the player who was recording the game( or whose balance was displayed). Hence some confusion as to why balance didn't go down or why played so badly.
Quote: OnceDearThe guy who got the misdeal was not the player who was recording the game( or whose balance was displayed). Hence some confusion as to why balance didn't go down or why played so badly.
Whatever the deal is, he's somehow attracted a lot of new people to blackjack. As I said before, they'll be in for a rude awakening if they think counting cards is easy money.
Quote: RomesIf they don't ever respond, is this something they would be blacklisted for?
I'd like to give BetOnline a chance to respond without saying what I'll do if they don't.
Let the record show I Emailed them at 8:45 AM today (2/21/17) and the only response was an auto-generated one acknowledging receiving the Email.
I also made a copy of the video, just as a back-up, in case the existing one is removed or altered.
Quote: OnceDearThe guy who got the misdeal was not the player who was recording the game( or whose balance was displayed). Hence some confusion as to why balance didn't go down or why played so badly.
Not that this is pertinent, but could it be said that the person who recorded the original video was one of the other players at the table? In addition, the guy in the upper left corner had nothing to do with that hand and is just commenting on the original video in a new video?
Quote: WizardNot that this is pertinent, but could it be said that the person who recorded the original video was one of the other players at the table? In addition, the guy in the upper left corner had nothing to do with that hand and is just commenting on the original video in a new video?
Michael M, the guy who recorded , narated and published was playing in seat 1. it was the third player, at seat 5 that got the misdeal.
MM had played: Hit soft 18 and got an ace.
MM does boast about 'unbelievable' counting prowess.
He's also going to make lots of valuable traffic to his site, via Youtube
He's monetized on that site.
Quote: OnceDearMichael M, the guy who recorded , narated and published was playing in seat 1. it was the third player, at seat 5 that got the misdeal.
MM had played: Hit soft 18 and got an ace.
MM does boast about 'unbelievable' counting prowess.
He's also going to make lots of valuable traffic to his site, via Youtube
He's monetized on that site.
Do'h, dunno why I thought he had the 2 split.
He'll make more money of that then counting cards.
Quote: OnceDearMichael M, the guy who recorded , narated and published was playing in seat 1. it was the third player, at seat 5 that got the misdeal.
MM had played: Hit soft 18 and got an ace.
Thanks for clearing that up. I just finished watching the longer version below.
It doesn't add anything of value to the short version. In fact, the short version is more informative with the show motion replay. In the long version Michael M, calls BetOnline support twice and they hang up on him for being rude, which he was. I think this story would be taken more seriously if he didn't treat it as comedy material.
Quote: RomesFrom someone who can read body language very well, the dealer even hesitated for a simple slight second before pulling committing to the maneuver. I don't know if he was feeling the back of the card, as he did run his finger up it, or if he was half practicing to do it in a second, or if perhaps he messed up the first time... So he laughs and then does it. No matter what way you splice it, his body language to me very clearly indicates he's up to something.
I can't read body language very well, so maybe take this with a grain of salt. I went back to watch him in the hands leading up to the one in question, and he does similar giggling and looking off camera quite a bit, either interacting with someone to the side or the players (Can they read a chat room? Audio feed?).
Now the videos do mask the dealers face why? I assume someone got threatened with a lawsuit.
What say you guys?
Quote: rainmanI ask again, the original and the second video (before cheat discovery) did not mask the dealers face.
Now the videos do mask the dealers face why? I assume someone got threatened with a lawsuit.
What say you guys?
I'd assume there could have been a threat, but I have no source. The edited versions are those on his channel, so I'm assuming there was a threat of some sort.
Here's an unmasked version:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8iPFqehFFyc
It has been over a day since I asked BetOnline for a comment. Not a peep.
Can you share the E-mail you sent them with us?Quote: WizardI made a video of the short video before the faces were blurred out.
It has been over a day since I asked BetOnline for a comment. Not a peep.
Supposedly, Michael was offered $250,000 to take the video down and he refused. And getting death threats from Central America. He's a $10 player claiming $100,000k+ scores. I don't buy it at all but the newbies are eating it up.
CCtimes make the common mistake of thinking that MM is the player who got the misdeal. Shoddy reporting.Quote: Ibeatyouraceshttp://casinocitytimes.com/news/article/betonline-responds-to-alleged-live-blackjack-cheating-incident-220510
Supposedly, Michael was offered $250,000 to take the video down and he refused. And getting death threats from Central America. He's a $10 player claiming $100,000k+ scores. I don't buy it at all but the newbies are eating it up.
MM was at seat one. The player who got the misdeal was at seat 5.
I don't buy anything MM says. Bull5h1tter!
He said this?Quote: Ibeatyouraceshttp://casinocitytimes.com/news/article/betonline-responds-to-alleged-live-blackjack-cheating-incident-220510
Supposedly, Michael was offered $250,000 to take the video down and he refused..
I dont know how copyright stuff works, but even if he did take it down whats to keep someone else from posting it?
I find it hard to believe they just came out and offered 250k to take it down.
I find it even more unbelievable that he would have turned that offer down.
1) They are very skilled/knowledgeable in the games they play.
2) They are charismatic/entertaining and have a good attitude.
3) They have breasts.
It doesn't seem like MM hits any of these, so why does he have such a large audience?
Quote: gamerfreak...It doesn't seem like MM hits any of these, so why does he have such a large audience?
My guess is he's making it look like card counting is easy riches. We all know that the opposite is true. It's a grind making minimal money in a casino.
Quote: IbeatyouracesMy guess is he's making it look like card counting is easy riches. We all know that the opposite is true. It's a grind making minimal money in a casino.
Yea, you need to learn Dice Control to make real money in a casino. Silly MM.
So instead of player tells you now have to learn dealer tells?Quote: RomesNo matter what way you splice it, his body language to me very clearly indicates he's up to something.
I'm confused as to the 'stunt' being pulled on a low value game and the 'wrong' card affecting the outcome.
I'd sure not want to rig a major game if its a stunt.
What are the chances of the second card being bad for the house?
Quote: FleaStiffSo instead of player tells you now have to learn dealer tells?
Back before the mirrors or electronic devices to determine a dealer blackjack, when they had to manually peek, you could use dealer tells.
Right. That is why Fleastiff's Seminar costs five grand (but it does come with a money back guarantee).Quote: BozYea, you need to learn Dice Control to make real money in a casino. Silly MM.
The move was too obvious, almost to the point that he wanted you to spot it. Why did he rest his hand in front of the shoe and then ticked the front card with such a big movement? Had he wanted to hide it, he could have rested his hand in front of him, then moved it to the shoe, pushed the card up using his middle finger, and took the second card, all in one stroke and I bet you that no one could see it with such a low-resolution camera.
