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AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 131
  • Posts: 16892
September 15th, 2016 at 3:54:40 AM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

I just found this thread. I started researching this issue way back in May and reported on it extensively:

https://easy.vegas/online/betsoft-jackpot-issue

My advice: Don't make max bets on Betsoft slots with progressive jackpots.



That's was your advice? NO ADVICE WOULD HAVE BEEN WAY BETTER. You just found this thread? You should've started this thread back in MAY. Why didn't you post a warning about this or a put up a link to your site here on WOV in BIG BOLD LETTERS long ago?

Thanks for the link, I will definitely need it, because I couldn't find this info or a clear link to this information on your website. It's certainly not promptly displayed from what I can see(THAT'S NOT PUTTING YOUR CUSTOMERS BEST INTEREST AT HEART ), I can't actually find it at all, and I was actually looking fairly hard. I must have a virus or something, because I keep getting redirect clicking that link (and others). So excuse me if you answered or addressed anything I'm ranting about. Not everything I'm actually asking you for an answer.

Only the top jackpot hit frequency on a few of their MANY slot games was tested. What's to say everything else including simple hits or bonus round frequencies wasn't gaffed as well? You know, instead of what should have been 100 spins on an average bonus round it was actually 150 spins on average?

Did someone check all the scratchers and horse racing and other games? Perhaps top prizes were gaffed as well? What about non progressives top jackpots? Even a simple ploppies advice would be, AVOID ALL BETSOFT GAMES COMPLETELY and the casino should've been blacklisted by you and others until the problem was fixed and the proper players were paid back.

This wasn't a small short lived problem, this was an ongoing major problem, I estimate Millions were stolen from players. How far did they go back when calculating how much to give back? Was it from the first time they were noticed/ notified/put on notice? hasn't many of Bet Softs games been at BV for many years? What about slots LV was that calculated?

If a B&M had many rigged slot games (and many more were not even tested)what would your advice be? Just don't bet max on those games?

When many other online casinos were thought to have rigged software, or EVEN WAY LESS of a problem, the entire casino was BLACKLISTED here.
A few Examples

There were some Casinos without evidence of rigged software or screwing its customers they had some stolen content (no testing done) but BLACKLISTED.

Anytime a casino doesn't pay it's affiliate (Even if the customers are being paid) they get Blacklisted.

Superbet was blacklisted for no legitimate gaming license (show me a BV/Slot.LV etc legitimate license) REPORTS (No verified investigation?) of slow and non payments. Sound familiar? BLACKLISTED

ANYONE (and there's lots of them ) accused of pirated software is automatically STRONGLY advised to avoid and BLACKLISTED.** ZERO proof of rigging or non payments.**

Slow paying casinos. Blacklisted

Spamming casinos. BLACKLISTED

Breach of contract with business partners (no mention of screwing players) BLACKLISTED.

Amigo Teck, albeit a 2nd chance. There was an 89% chance of VP rigged (not 100% proof) Blacklisted.

Skillonnet: Only complaint... Possible/probable rigged double up. BLACKLISTED.


The way BV distributed the rigged jackpot money was irresponsible SELF SERVING and not fair whatsoever. (They probably put in on the worst paying slots available, hell, they could've just set the slots at 70% pay back before adding the money)

Players who got screwed are now(were) FORCED to gamble in order to receive what's rightfully theirs. New players were eligible to win that money, so how is that fair?

Someone could've lost thousands in EV, meanwhile someone else could've lost $1 in EV, yet they both have an equal amount of "equity" IF THEY PLAY similar games, bets and time. Most of the people probably didn't even realize what's going on. My GF played on BV and she doesn't even know yet.

I looked at some of the games they offered the "extra money" on. I believe from the information I got, it was mostly distributed on mystery jackpots that oftentimes ran up past 10k anyway, and they are VERY difficult to hit, normally resetting at 1k-2k. Even without them putting on extra money you could regularly find them at 5k-12k any day of the week. And I didn't see anything that looked juicy, I'm highly doubtful anything I looked at was even +EV. Admittedly I looked kinda late. Why did I look late you might ask? I, someone who actually played ALL of the gaffed machines never knew about the giveaway until late. Do you see the problem with that?

How Many people who played the gaffed machines don't ever return?
How many people lost so much money on the gaffed slot machines that they couldn't even afford to BUY back their lost EV if they wanted to.?
How many people never knew or had the chance(Did they send an Email to everyone?)
What if someone moved to a state where BV was banned or a felony to play online?

They were making money by attracting new players to the higher jackpots, and by keeping players playing longer who were chasing the higher jackpots. You can clearly see when the Mystery Jackpots get up to 8k the meter start flying. The was they did this was/is wrong on so many levels

Let's say some thief comes along and steals money from you and your neighbors houses. In total he gets 10k. 3k of that is yours. His wife finds out and decides to give back the money. She puts an ad in the paper(you don't even get the paper) saying, my husband robbed a neighborhood I'm randomly putting 0 to 10k in an undisclosed amount of envelopes (thousands) ANYONE can stop by my house and BUY some envelopes. She actually makes and keeps the extra money. You didn't see the ad, and even if you had seen it you were 1500 miles away and broke until next the month because he took all your money. But hey they did the right thing

Again I ask, how is it that BV and other casinos don't notice Hundreds of thousands/millions in extra profits from their slots?

Did the player who was not paid his jackpot receive it? If not isn't that a good enough reason to blacklist them?
The casino is responsible period. If we don't make the casinos responsible for their software providers gaffed machines and non payments they can simply turn a blind eye or work in cahoots and just blame the software company.
Last edited by: unnamed administrator on Aug 18, 2019
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
MichaelBluejay
MichaelBluejay
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
  • Threads: 29
  • Posts: 791
September 15th, 2016 at 6:53:16 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

That's was your advice? NO ADVICE WOULD HAVE BEEN WAY BETTER.

Care to explain this preposterous statement? In the remainder of your tirade you slam me for not doing enough, but here you scream at me in all caps that having done nothing would have been better. Which is it?

Quote: AxelWolf

You just found this thread?

Yes. I don't constantly monitor WoV, and nobody alerted me to it. What, you think it's my job to constantly monitor various fora? If so, then I'll turn it back on you: Why weren't you constantly monitoring my site back when I had multiple prominent disclaimers posted on every single page of the site? Why weren't you monitoring Casinomeister? Why weren't you monitoring CasinoListings?

Quote: AxelWolf

You should've started this thread back in MAY.

I thought there was one here about it. I thought that's how I originally found out about it. I can't find it now. I did post extensively about it on Casinomeister, tried to get the Wizard interested early on, tried to get Bryan at Casinomeister involved (both to no avail), and pushed Bovada hard. Incidentally, Bovada blew CasinoListings off repeatedly, but shortly after I inquired, Bovada quickly started removing the affected games. I can't say for sure that my involvement was what got them to finally act, but the timing certainly makes it seem that way.

And interestingly, you ream me up and down the street with your post, and then you question why I don't hang out on WoV more? I think you have your answer.

Quote: AxelWolf

Thanks for the link, I will definitely need it, because I couldn't find this info or a clear link to this information on your website. It's certainly not promptly displayed from what I can see(THAT'S NOT PUTTING YOUR CUSTOMERS BEST INTEREST AT HEART ),

Wow. First of all, you might try actually reading. As it says in two separate places in my article, before the issue was resolved I put prominent qualifiers on *all* the sidebar and footer Bovada advertising on VegasClick, and linked them all to my Betsoft page. That's three links on Every. Single. Page. I don't know any other website on the planet that's ever done something like that, certainly not WoV or Casinomeister. After Bovada pulled the Betsoft games, there was no longer any risk to my readers playing at Bovada (which is the only casino I advertise), so I removed the qualifiers. There's still a link to the Betsoft page on my Advertisers page.

Putting those qualifiers up almost certainly cost me money, but I took the unprecedented step of warning my readers about games at my advertiser precisely because I *do* always put my readers first. So when you scream at me that I don't care about my readers, all I can say, besides providing evidence showing the exact opposite, is screw off.

Let me also remind you that I was one of the only people taking the time to work on this issue. You're welcome.

Quote: AxelWolf

Only the top jackpot hit frequency on a few of their MANY slot games was tested. What's to say everything else including simple hits or bonus round frequencies wasn't gaffed as well? You know, instead of what should have been 100 spins on an average bonus round it was actually 150 spins on average?

I doubt it. It really seems like a programming error about the progressive jackpots. Your idea is *possible*, in the sense that anything's *possible*. But since some casinos report overall return of individual slots (like VideoSlots), I think if the slots were underperforming, we'd know.

Quote: AxelWolf

If a B&M had many rigged slot games (and many more were not even tested)what would your advice be? Just don't bet max on those games?

If they were rigged because of a *manufacturer* error (not a casino scam), and I thought the problem was limited to max bets on progressive slots, then yes.

Quote: AxelWolf

When many other online casinos were thought to have rigged software, or EVEN WAY LESS of a problem, the entire casino was BLACKLISTED here.

Well, take that up with the Wizard, then.

Quote: AxelWolf

The way BV distributed the rigged jackpot money was irresponsible SELF SERVING and not fair whatsoever. [long rant with multiple examples]

First of all, "rigged" implies intentionally crooked. That's exceptionally unlikely. It would have to be the stupidest scam in the world to have the progressive amounts spiraling continually higher and never won in plain view of the whole world. Reasonable conclusion is that it was a programming error.

Next, I don't know why you're trying to convince me that Bovada's resolution wasn't the best one because I said the exact same thing publicly on my Betsoft page. I said that the better way would have been to refund players' progressive contributions directly to them. (I told Bovada the same thing, before they announced they were rolling over the contributions into different games.) Maybe there was some reason they couldn't easily do that (e.g., they didn't have access to that data, or licensing regulations prohibited it, or something else), but if so they certainly didn't say.

Quote: AxelWolf

Again I ask, how is it that BV and other casinos don't notice Hundreds of thousands/millions in extra profits from their slots?

(1) Because it wasn't profit! Duh!
(2) All of the extra money was just making the jackpots grow larger, which simply looked like they hadn't hit yet. Unless you intentionally sit down and analyze the data, you'd never know there was a problem.
(3) The problem might not have affected that many other casinos. There didn't appear to be a problem at Bovada's sister casino, Slots.lv, for example.

Quote: AxelWolf

Did the player who was not paid his jackpot receive it?

He apparently settled for a smaller amount and signed an NDA so he won't/can't discuss the details.

Quote: AxelWolf

If not isn't that a good enough reason to blacklist them?

Sure, if I were in the business of blacklisting software providers. I'm not. Like most gambling sites, I don't maintain a blacklist page. I let the watchdog sites do that. I don't have nearly enough time to monitor all the problem companies, even if I cared to. It's not my focus. I advertise only one casino, and they don't even carry the affected software any more.

And now I block you.
Last edited by: MichaelBluejay on Sep 4, 2019

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