Online Casino Due Diligence Process

Hi,

I want to make sure that even though I will be playing for entertainment value (with real money), that I am playing in a casino that provides me true odds.

I will be using Pinnacle Sports and want to know what I can/should do to ensure legitimacy?

Here's what I've completed thus far:

- Reviewed gaming providers websites (Global Gaming Labs and Multislots)
- Read reviews on gaming providers
- Reviewed independent reviewer of Game Payout Data Analysis (GLI Test Labs Canada)
- Gone through the last 12 months Payout Analysis (found on pinnacle's website)

Despite the above, I still am not convinced one way or the other on if the RNG and true odds are true.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!!

RNG's provide pseudo (fake) random results,
not real random. Good enough for the casino,
not good enough for me.

if you aren't the "throw caution to the winds" type of guy, you should just forget online gaming

I'm definitely not a "throw caution to the winds" type of guy. However, I do see entertainment value for myself in gambling and want to do whatever homework I can before I do it online occasionally.

Just basically give the itch a fix every once in a while when needed ;)

Disregard what Bob is saying, because truly random or not, on class 3 machines, play enough hands correctly and you will end up with the calculated percentage.

If he could really tell the difference in live vs RNG like he claims, there would be a way to crush them.

ALWAYS assume online casinos are not fair and go from there.

LOTS of people win online and get paid.

There's some good +EV opportunities online but its a completed process finding them.

There's been VP games as high as 4%

plenty of FPDW.

9/6 job out the yin yang.

Bonus opportunities

theres been promotions worth 10s of thousands.

Since things can be changed so easily, I think the only 'due diligence' is to make certain you are constantly drawing your winnings out so that if it turns out to have been some ponzi scheme you've not lost much.

Even if your early calculations are careful, you've no way of staying on top of the situation so just do your gambling and if you win draw down your profits.

without doubt your concern should in fact be withdrawing your funds, although I suppose with your attitude you may accept that you will never withdraw due to negative expectation.

I guess somebody should point out that the Wizard guarantees the places you see advertised at this site are all on the up and up.

Quote: odiousgambit

without doubt your concern should in fact be withdrawing your funds, although I suppose with your attitude you may accept that you will never withdraw due to negative expectation.

I guess somebody should point out that the Wizard guarantees the places you see advertised at this site are all on the up and up.

Up and up with payments and resolving problems.

I don't know that he can really stand by the RNG. He can possibly draw a conclusion and even do some independent testing. That's not good enough to rely on. There's way to many scenarios.

With that being said.... I believe you're safest playing the ones he recommends.

Personally I say stay away from big bets online. Stick to $1 denominations or less on VP

1-10 bets on table games.

Don't play long sessions.

Stop before you normally would, if you seem to be having a abnormally bad run. Assume they have a switch (not saying they do) Wait a day or so and try again.

DON'T TRY TO COMPARE the experience to a real casino.... everything happens faster and its far less fun.

$200 in a casino may get you 3 hrs of enjoyment, free drinks, conversation, handling chips, looking at hot chicks, handling money and chips, instant pay outs, comps etc. Online expect that same $200 to last 45 minutes.

You can get bonuses however they are designed to grind you down and force to to play, with out being able to leave when you want. You could easily hit a .25 RF right away and lose it all back before you finish your wagering requirements.

Before UIEGA I had an account at Pinnacle Sports. I found them to be a very good place to make a sports bet, or to play low-denom gaming.
I stil miss them. They used to have "free-play" on some of the table games and slots. I guess BW caught up to the profit margin.

The only other place that did general gaming I had an account with was 5dimes. I just played sports bets there.
Never had a problem with either. But as I always state, "if all I need is a CC to sign-up, thats all I need to cash out". As you are probably aware, that ain't gonna happen.

Quote: AxelWolf

Disregard what Bob is saying, because truly random or not, on class 3 machines, play enough hands correctly and you will end up with the calculated percentage.

If he could really tell the difference in live vs RNG like he claims, there would be a way to crush them.

ALWAYS assume online casinos are not fair and go from there.

LOTS of people win online and get paid.

There's some good +EV opportunities online but its a completed process finding them.

There's been VP games as high as 4%

plenty of FPDW.

9/6 job out the yin yang.

Bonus opportunities

theres been promotions worth 10s of thousands.

This is a confusing post. "Always assume online casinos are not fair (which I also do, so I have never messed with them) and go from there"? Then this poster identifies there having been +4% edges and fpdw (which we know as being +.76%).

Tell me, if you automatically assume the casinos are unfair, then how can you believe in what you said about there being +EV involved anywhere? Further, those bonus opportunities and all those thousands in promotions: in any unfair setting, all this stuff is is window dressing for true suckers.

Quote: AxelWolf

If he could really tell the difference in live vs RNG like he claims, there would be a way to crush them.
.

No there wouldn't, that's just silly. It
wouldn't be any easier or any harder.

Quote: EvenBob

No there wouldn't, that's just silly. It
wouldn't be any easier or any harder.

This further demonstrates the somewhat hypocritical info provided about online gaming by "axel" earlier. How could such a statement about "crushing" any online game or casino hold water when there is a predominant presumption that the gaming is in itself, unfair?

By the way, I agree that no one, without Divine help, would ever be able to tell the difference between pseudo random and pure random.

Quote: runningman

This further demonstrates the somewhat hypocritical info provided about online gaming by "axel" earlier. How could such a statement about "crushing" any online game or casino hold water when there is a predominant presumption that the gaming is in itself, unfair?

By the way, I agree that no one, without Divine help, would ever be able to tell the difference between pseudo random and pure random.

I basically agree with you, but there have been some funny instances. A Canadian player was killing it at Keno over and over again. All good things come to an end of course, and it was finally revealed that he was able to detect and exploit a pattern. Guess how?

Quote: runningman

This is a confusing post. "Always assume online casinos are not fair (which I also do, so I have never messed with them) and go from there"? Then this poster identifies there having been +4% edges and fpdw (which we know as being +.76%).

Tell me, if you automatically assume the casinos are unfair, then how can you believe in what you said about there being +EV involved anywhere? Further, those bonus opportunities and all those thousands in promotions: in any unfair setting, all this stuff is is window dressing for true suckers.

Not sure if you thought I implied that FPDW was %4( I wasn't ) I know the EV on FPDW.

I said, "assume" and by that I meant be cautious. Just because you find a game you're interested in with a good payback that doesn't mean its on the square.

There's been plenty of examples of gaffed online casinos. Casino bar was so obviously gaffed it was a joke. I only had my own personal observation at first. That's actually what lead me back to Mr Shackelford's site. I was searching for information on the that casino and I seen that the Wizard had written about them. That was nice to confirm my suspicions, luckily I only lost a few hundred chasing a bonus.(a drop in the bucket)

Theres been examples of online casinos where everything seemed to be legitimate, based on many people results. (not proof)

Example: Winward had FPDW, I had very good results on FPDW (probably the best run on $1 VP I ever had anywhere including B&M casinos ) Others had good results results on the VP.
Winward also had A BJ game that was positive off the top. Everybody had horrible results anytime large bets were placed (not proof of anything but good enough for me to not continue)

I believe it was High Noon casino(still around, but I might be wrong about the name, it was over 10 years ago, it was the same theme and similar name) had a VP game called Nugget Poker, the full house paid 100 coins (don't remember the rest of the paytable) it was 103% off the top and %1 with bonuses/promotions.

If a casino is gaffing machines for an extra 5% there's bonuses/promotion that can overcome that. IE I believe it was Trident that tripled large buy in's with under 6x wagering requirements. they can have gaff an extra 10% if they want.

I played the Casino on net promotion, they had a 007 promotion that paid 70 to 1 on Roulette on zero and 7 for 2 or 3 hrs (its verified and plenty of information kengam77 wrote up a good post about it) the casino lost upward of a million dollars and paid everybody. So gaffe away if that kind of opportunity is possible. obviously that's not the normal but smaller more frequent stuff is. I'm not going to post a road map or explain every detail how I think they work, that would be dumb for many reasons. I'm just going to trust myself and confirm with money. If im wrong, I guess the gambling gods must love me. Perhaps they expect my first born.


Online casinos might start off wanting to run a legitimate casino, but greed or necessity sets in and they choose to go rogue. They probably have a good customer base and a good reputation with stamps, seals, positive reviews. No one is constantly testing and verifying, all the player advocate agencies making money from the casinos. It's not in their best interest to test RINGs or find out the truth. As long as there's not blatant scamming or obvious gaffing they have no incentive to out casinos/ software providers they advertise for.

Everything isn't back or white, so even if my statements were confusing and conflicting that's because playing online is just that.

Quote: EvenBob

No there wouldn't, that's just silly. It
wouldn't be any easier or any harder.

Honesty Bob, you claim to have a betting system that can beat live roulette using some string theory/ quantum physics/ astrology/ voodoo method or whatever you want call it.

Just because you can't figure it out doesn't mean it's not exploitable. I don't know the details but a group just found a way to exploit the a RGN using computers.



Come up with a plausible example on Electronic roulette and Ill come up with a way to profit from it. Make sure that example is not something that's below the advantage of whatever advantage you claim to have on a live roulette. Because if it is, then your system should have the ability to beat electronic roulette as well. You should be crushing online live Roulette you have full use of a computer. DON'T give me this I don't play online BS or can't get money on and off. If you can prove your system or whatever. You would be offered any lopsided deal you wanted.


Also when you explain an example remember you can tell the difference with you're naked eye, as you claim.

Non of this don't wize up a chump stuff or you don't reveal your system. I'm asking for a plausible example.

Also I'd be willing to bet you have vetted someone on the forum with you're system.

This is interesting. Bob has a system for beating roulette? Maybe and maybe not, but if he really does then why reveal it? This is online mostly anonymous postings anyway. People all the time claim to have profitable systems or say they win as AP's or just claim to win period. There is never any proof to any of these claims and why should there be? Sure, most people fall on one side of the curve, but some don't, and these people just may be doing what the math says only a few might be able to do, for whatever reason(s). All systems are interesting in one way or another, even if only to be amused by some. So why argue with anyone who claims anything when there's no accountability and there's zero reputations at stake?

I've got a system for keeping mosquitos from bothering me. Most people diss it, it's not mathematically proven, but it works for me and that's all that counts. It's never bothered me that others don't believe it and refuse to try it, but a whole lot of people are bothered that I make the claim. But I couldn't care less.

Quote: runningman

I've got a system for keeping mosquitos from bothering me. Most people diss it, it's not mathematically proven, but it works for me and that's all that counts. It's never bothered me that others don't believe it and refuse to try it, but a whole lot of people are bothered that I make the claim. But I couldn't care less.

I live in a land with many mosquitoes. Please share this system!

Edit

OP, I think you level of play may be a factor at was alluded to earlier.

Quote: runningman

This is interesting. Bob has a system for beating roulette? Maybe and maybe not, but if he really does then why reveal it? This is online mostly anonymous postings anyway. People all the time claim to have profitable systems or say they win as AP's or just claim to win period. There is never any proof to any of these claims and why should there be? Sure, most people fall on one side of the curve, but some don't, and these people just may be doing what the math says only a few might be able to do, for whatever reason(s). All systems are interesting in one way or another, even if only to be amused by some. So why argue with anyone who claims anything when there's no accountability and there's zero reputations at stake?

I've got a system for keeping mosquitoes from bothering me. Most people diss it, it's not mathematically proven, but it works for me and that's all that counts. It's never bothered me that others don't believe it and refuse to try it, but a whole lot of people are bothered that I make the claim. But I couldn't care less.

Hi Bob ....Im sorry I mean Runningman. Bob is MIA, glad to see you're here to help his cause and share his common views "This is online mostly anonymous postings anyway" I think he said something similar to that before. He even likes making comparisons, like you're mosquito analogy.

Many people have shown enough evidence and proven their claims. At minimum they have MATH to back up the possibility.THERE'S NO MATH THAT CAN BEAT ROULETTE with a betting system. (hes not claiming biases or clocking)he claims sleeper numbers, past history and patterns or some malarkey.

Bob has even bashed other systems himself, I find that hilarious. Claims of BS systems is a pet peeve of mine. I have seen it mess up peoples lives.(just talked to my friend yesterday, and he's back to his craps system.... *sigh, face palm, shakes head)

ALL THE MATH AND LOGIC points out that Bob doesn't have a legitimate system.

In just 4 years Bob went from a roulette enthusiast.... to a guy with a fool proof system, and now he says, he can even tell the differences from live Roulette and RNG numbers in a short period of time.

READ THIS ENTERTAINING POST.....

July 18th, 2010 at 7:00:42
EvenBob
Member since: Jul 18, 2010
Threads: 385
Posts: 16592
"I have a friend who wins consistantly playing roulette in Vegas. He doesn't play a mechanical system. He has a strategy that he adjusts according to the situation. This strategy is a complicated, complex mixture of probability, statistics and experience that has all morphed into a laser like intuition on the outside bets. He can't really explain what he does, he says it all comes out sounding like 'Gamblers Fallacy'. He doesn't win every bet, but he never loses a session. Ever. When I'm in Vegas, he lets me piggyback his bets sometimes and I always come away a winner. Why do they say roulette can't be beaten, when my friend and others, I'm sure, are beating it every day." Oops that DOSE have spelling error Bob.

Why revile it? By all indications Bob rarely gambles. His system, if real, would be worth multi millions in EZ money. Surly he could at least trust Mike to Play it, split profits and only revile it after Bob has passed away. Some of the millions in profit, from all the incredible book sales could go to his family. At the least... he could set up a fund for dog shelters. There's so many opportunities in proving such an incredible system, its beyond belief anyone would keep it secret from everybody.

I'm guessing that Bob HAS tried to convince a few forum members privately, to help with his system.

Didn't they up THE CHALLENGE to 100k recently?

runningman has been suspended, nuclear option, for dupe ID's, previously suspended member.

Guess axel was rifgt and its bob or his friend

Which member was it?