this is second "BAD BEAT" In 5 mins.

Dealt to H8ONLINEPOKER2 [2h 4h]
H8ONLINEPOKER2 has 15 seconds left to act
H8ONLINEPOKER2 calls 40
acemonger folds
chiklen89 folds
sedoj999 folds
Garto_farolo folds
julesvivi folds
RockHandX calls 20
not bother checks
*** FLOP *** [4s 2d Kd]
RockHandX bets 80
not bother folds
H8ONLINEPOKER2 raises to 160
RockHandX raises to 240
H8ONLINEPOKER2 has 15 seconds left to act
H8ONLINEPOKER2: dont tell me a flush
H8ONLINEPOKER2 raises to 1,885, and is all in
RockHandX calls 1,645
H8ONLINEPOKER2 shows [2h 4h]
RockHandX shows [Qc Kh]


*** TURN *** [4s 2d Kd] [9h]
RockHandX: loool
*** RIVER *** [4s 2d Kd 9h] [9d]
H8ONLINEPOKER2 shows two pair, Nines and Fours
RockHandX shows two pair, Kings and Nines
RockHandX wins the pot (3,890) with two pair, Kings and Nines
*** SUMMARY ***





who is in a better odd postion to win at the all end bet? I knew he had the king
. but i had the two pair. knowing he probaly didn't have low cards. up my odds, for the fullhouse

At the time you went all in, the other guy had a 25.45% chance of winning. Someone overcoming 3 to 1 odds is not a bad beat, in fact, it happens once every 4 hands on average. A bad beat would be you having 77 against someone with 89, the flop coming 778, and the turn and river being the last two 8's.

Sadly, this is the kind of thing you can expect to happen when you play garbage hands such as 24. See the Wikipedia article on counterfeiting for more information.

Dealt to H8ONLINEPOKER2 [Ac Ah]/
AxAngel folds / / but its always happens in a underhand for a large
lidercke06 folds
nev83 calls 120 chip stack.
tmurphy18 fold / /
geraldwong folds
kobra dallas folds
31Alex33333 calls 120
limboboy01 folds
H8ONLINEPOKER2 has 15 seconds left to act
H8ONLINEPOKER2 raises to 720
nev83 calls 600
31Alex33333 has 15 seconds left to act
31Alex33333 folds
*** FLOP *** [9c 5d 8c]
H8ONLINEPOKER2 bets 1,260
nev83 raises to 10,151, and is all in
H8ONLINEPOKER2 calls 6,620, and is all in
nev83 shows [9d 7c]
H8ONLINEPOKER2 shows [Ac Ah]
Uncalled bet of 2,271 returned to nev83
*** TURN *** [9c 5d 8c] [Jd]
*** RIVER *** [9c 5d 8c Jd] [6d]
nev83 shows a straight, Nine high
H8ONLINEPOKER2 shows a pair of Aces
nev83 wins the pot (17,380) with a straight, Nine high
*** SUMMARY ***


who had better odds before all in bet?

Dealt to H8ONLINEPOKER2 [Ah Th]
tox69320 folds
vadimka_20 folds
claudiudcd calls 40
futrillo raises to 80
Vo-4ka calls 80
ahpiman folds
TheEyecatcher1 calls 40
H8ONLINEPOKER2 raises to 120
claudiudcd calls 80
futrillo raises to 320
Vo-4ka calls 240
TheEyecatcher1 folds
H8ONLINEPOKER2 has 15 seconds left to act
H8ONLINEPOKER2 calls 200
claudiudcd calls 200
*** FLOP *** [3d 4h 7h]
H8ONLINEPOKER2 checks
claudiudcd checks
futrillo bets 280
Vo-4ka calls 280
H8ONLINEPOKER2 has 15 seconds left to act
H8ONLINEPOKER2 calls 280
claudiudcd calls 280
*** TURN *** [3d 4h 7h] [6d]
H8ONLINEPOKER2 checks
claudiudcd bets 40
futrillo raises to 935, and is all in
Vo-4ka folds
H8ONLINEPOKER2 has 15 seconds left to act
H8ONLINEPOKER2 calls 820, and is all in
claudiudcd calls 895
futrillo shows [Qc Qd]
H8ONLINEPOKER2 shows [Ah Th]
claudiudcd shows [5h Jh]
*** RIVER *** [3d 4h 7h 6d] [9c]

and this one??

Find an online odds calculator and you will have your answer in seconds. I used twodimes.net for the last 2 hands you posted and it showed,

FOR THE SECOND HAND YOU POSTED:
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ac Ah 648 65.45 330 33.33 12 1.21 0.661
7c 9d 330 33.33 648 65.45 12 1.21 0.339

FOR THE THIRD HAND YOU POSTED:
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ah Th 7 16.67 32 76.19 3 7.14 0.190
Qc Qd 0 0.00 39 92.86 3 7.14 0.024
Jh 5h 32 76.19 7 16.67 3 7.14 0.786

Quote: 40487

who had better odds before all in bet?

Here's a great poker odds calculator.

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-tools/odds-calculator/texas-holdem

You simply click on the cards for each player's hole cards and it tells you the odds.

Then click on cards for the flop, and you get the new odds, etc.


It's very visual and easy to understand.

In that hand where your pocked aces lost to the straight....

After the flop, when you (or he) went all in, he had top pair and a straight draw. His move (or call) is NOT a bad play. In fact it was a good play. And he had 35% chance of winning at that point.


Pocket aces suck.

40487, I think that playing online poker is not good for you. It seems like you get very, very frusterated whenever you get a bad beat and that you think that online poker is rigged. In fact your handle is H8ONLINEPOKER2. I hope you are a lifetime winner at online poker, but if not I would suggest that you stop playing. It is not worth the stress.

The question I have is why are you posting these hand histories? What exactly are you looking for from this site?

Quote: Croupier

The question I have is why are you posting these hand histories? What exactly are youlooking for from this site?

I would say love and a hug. However, since most of the people on this forum have a strong math background, they just calculate the odds, say "That's not a bad beat... it happens." and are not that simpathetic.

Just rereading the hand history... are you playing for real money or play chips?

Quote: gambler

I would say love and a hug. However, since most of the people on this forum have a strong math background, they just calculate the odds, say "That's not a bad beat... it happens." and are not that simpathetic.

Just rereading the hand history... are you playing for real money or play chips?

Math? Hardly.

Anyone who has played enough Hold Em to have heard the term 'Counterfeit' knows that losing with two pair, when the two pair is twos and fours, is far from a 'bad beat'.

FYI: It doesn't take much Hold Em experience to have experienced such a hand and hear the term.

You learn that if you have 2-4, you should fold pre-flop!

Quote: DJTeddyBear

You learn that if you have 2-4, you should fold pre-flop!

Laugh. I didn't even catch that. Very true.

Quote: gambler

I would say love and a hug. However, since most of the people on this forum have a strong math background, they just calculate the odds, say "That's not a bad beat... it happens." and are not that simpathetic.

This community is indeed sympathetic to all players. We have a pretty tight-knit group that enjoys sharing stories and discussing the math behind them. Normally everyone is very courteous and respectful to newbies as well. For example, every couple of weeks a new poster comes on here and asks about this new system they just came up with that you just double your bet every time you lose, eventually you'll always win!!! Look at the responses...the poster is usually welcomed aboard, and someone just politely explains what the system is and attempts to have the new person understand.

But when someone breaks several of the Wizard's rules with regard to posting, then we hear from the Wizard himself that the poster refuses to clean up his posts by deleting chatter, then we are told from him that we are simple and we shouldn't let math get in the way of a good online poker conspiracy theory...I can't speak for everyone here, but THAT'S about when our sympathy evaporates!

In response to 40487 and his many posts regarding his so called "bad beats" and his belief that he has been dealt an unusually high and mathematically improbable number of lousy hole cards, I'd like to approach this from the perspective of a professional poker player - namely, me.

When I say that I'm a professional poker player this simply means that my sole source of income is derived from playing poker. You'll not find me on TV and I haven't ever played in a WSOP tournament. I make a good living from the game at a level I find comfortable for me and that is suitable for my bankroll. I track my hours, my wins and losses, keep notes on the regulars and this is my job. I have the freedom to do what I like when I like and I have the income to finance a good life. I work anywhere from 80 to 120 hours a month and I generally make from $5,000 to $8,000 a month with an hourly income of around $75 (YTD is $81.44).

I have enjoyed reading the Wizard of Odds website for years and I have only recently become a member of this WOV community. For anyone who has poker related questions I'd be pleased to open up discussions on that topic as there isn't much here on professional poker.

So, back to our friend 40487. I hope that he/she reads this as it should close the subject and I'm sure that many of you would like to see this thread finally die.

I play ring (cash) games in B&M casinos and I also play ring games and tournaments online. My online poker rooms of choice are Full Tilt and Poker Stars which also happen to be the two biggest sites as far as the number of players they have playing at any one time.

I have seen some of the most incredible things online and live and many of them fall into the "that's not possible" category. The fact is though that I've seen them with my own eyes and therefore I know that it is possible. I have seen AA vs KK vs QQ vs JJ in a live cash game and after all 4 were all-in pre-flop the entire table was more than a little surprised to see these hands revealed. Both JJ and KK flopped sets and guess what... an Ace spiked on the river. I've been busted out of tournaments online when someone called my all-in with 3-8os against my KK only to have the flop come 3-3-8. I could go on but I'm sure you get the idea... these things happen considerably more often that you might imagine and when playing online where the number of hands dealt is 4 or more times greater than playing live, well, you just see a lot more unlikely and incredible results.

Some people are prone to be suspicious of these unlikely results and when playing online it's all to easy to convince yourself that something is "up" and that someone (or some computer program) is conspiring against you. Evidence has been brought to light over the years that yes, online players cheat (collude), online poker sites are not always as secure as we'd like (or as we've been led to believe) and that your money might be at risk to more than the odds that the math and variance would suggest. As someone has already pointed out, the last entity who would benefit from cheating (in the long run) would be the sites themselves as they are making money to the tune of hundreds of thousands or more every day and they DON'T NEED to cheat you in a hand of poker. If caught cheating they'll simply lose their credibility, lose their players and thus lose their income. They make their money from the rake (usually 4%-5% of every hand or tournament buy-in. They want happy players who feel safe and secure and they'll do whatever they can to achieve this end.

40487, no online poker site needs to cheat to make money and if you believe that you are being cheated, simply stop playing on that site. For you to show those hand histories suggests that you believe you are being cheated... does this mean that you think you're being singled out for some reason? Is the site picking on you and your miniscule bankroll and spreading your money out amongst the rest of the players at your table for some sinister and unknown reason? Are they getting good hole cards while you're getting crap? Think about it... now think about it a little more... now stop complaining. Either you're right and they're not on the level and you will stop playing on their site OR you are simply having a bad run of cards. Stop going on about how you can sit on your couch and deal from your $8 deck and NEVER go through 52 sets of hole cards without dealing yourself a good combination. It doesn't matter and no one cares. When you get a bad hand pre-flop, fold it, forget about it and move on to the next hand. If those cards are no good, fold them as well.

"But what about all of those bad cards?" you ask. "Doesn't this show that someone is cheating?" you ask. "What about those Bad Beats?" you ask. "Why won't someone listen to me and treat this with the seriousness that it deserves?" you ask.

Well, the bad cards are simply random luck or a product of your imagination. Either way there's nothing anyone here can do for you. They don't prove beyond a doubt that you are being cheated but if you velieve that you are then stop playing on that site and it won't happen again. Those aren't bad beats by the way - they're called "suckouts" where I'm from. Yes, someone was behind and ended up beating your hand. It happens... a lot. A Bad Beat in my casino is A-A-A-10-10 or better being beaten by quads or better and both players must have a pocket pair. When that happens to you 40487, let us know. I think a number of people have responded to your ramblings with much patience and respect and you simply won't let it go.

Let it go 40487. Breathe in... breathe out. That's better. Now, find a new hobby.

Great first post Nightfly. It is nice to have a professional poker player on the boards. Welcome.

I have to agree with Nightfly. If you feel you are being cheated 40487, you should probably stop playing online poker. Find something else that you enjoy.

NightFly -

Great post. Welcome aboard!

Quote: TheNightfly

I have enjoyed reading the Wizard of Odds website for years and I have only recently become a member of this WOV community.

Maybe I'm reading into this, but it seems like there's remorse in that line for not getting involved here sooner.

Think nothing of it. For what it's worth, this forum only started about 7 months ago.

Quote: 40487

Dealt to H8ONLINEPOKER2 [2h 4h]
H8ONLINEPOKER2 has 15 seconds left to act
H8ONLINEPOKER2 calls 40
acemonger folds
chiklen89 folds
sedoj999 folds
Garto_farolo folds
julesvivi folds
RockHandX calls 20
not bother checks
*** FLOP *** [4s 2d Kd]
RockHandX bets 80
not bother folds
H8ONLINEPOKER2 raises to 160
RockHandX raises to 240
H8ONLINEPOKER2 has 15 seconds left to act
H8ONLINEPOKER2: dont tell me a flush
H8ONLINEPOKER2 raises to 1,885, and is all in
RockHandX calls 1,645
H8ONLINEPOKER2 shows [2h 4h]
RockHandX shows [Qc Kh]


*** TURN *** [4s 2d Kd] [9h]
RockHandX: loool
*** RIVER *** [4s 2d Kd 9h] [9d]
H8ONLINEPOKER2 shows two pair, Nines and Fours
RockHandX shows two pair, Kings and Nines
RockHandX wins the pot (3,890) with two pair, Kings and Nines
*** SUMMARY ***





who is in a better odd postion to win at the all end bet? I knew he had the king
. but i had the two pair. knowing he probaly didn't have low cards. up my odds, for the fullhouse

It doesn't matter, you opened under the gun with 2h-4h, rather than folding. The teaser is the no flop for a flush.

Quote: 40487

Dealt to H8ONLINEPOKER2 [Ac Ah]/
AxAngel folds / / but its always happens in a underhand for a large
lidercke06 folds
nev83 calls 120 chip stack.
tmurphy18 fold / /
geraldwong folds
kobra dallas folds
31Alex33333 calls 120
limboboy01 folds
H8ONLINEPOKER2 has 15 seconds left to act
H8ONLINEPOKER2 raises to 720
nev83 calls 600
31Alex33333 has 15 seconds left to act
31Alex33333 folds
*** FLOP *** [9c 5d 8c]
H8ONLINEPOKER2 bets 1,260
nev83 raises to 10,151, and is all in
H8ONLINEPOKER2 calls 6,620, and is all in
nev83 shows [9d 7c]
H8ONLINEPOKER2 shows [Ac Ah]
Uncalled bet of 2,271 returned to nev83
*** TURN *** [9c 5d 8c] [Jd]
*** RIVER *** [9c 5d 8c Jd] [6d]
nev83 shows a straight, Nine high
H8ONLINEPOKER2 shows a pair of Aces
nev83 wins the pot (17,380) with a straight, Nine high
*** SUMMARY ***


who had better odds before all in bet?

Ever hear of check? You have a donkey-fish here on flop... if he's holding any pair, he might not go away... as you found out to your financial dismay.

Quote: 40487

Dealt to H8ONLINEPOKER2 [Ah Th]
tox69320 folds
vadimka_20 folds
claudiudcd calls 40
futrillo raises to 80
Vo-4ka calls 80
ahpiman folds
TheEyecatcher1 calls 40
H8ONLINEPOKER2 raises to 120
claudiudcd calls 80
futrillo raises to 320
Vo-4ka calls 240
TheEyecatcher1 folds
H8ONLINEPOKER2 has 15 seconds left to act
H8ONLINEPOKER2 calls 200
claudiudcd calls 200
*** FLOP *** [3d 4h 7h]
H8ONLINEPOKER2 checks
claudiudcd checks
futrillo bets 280
Vo-4ka calls 280
H8ONLINEPOKER2 has 15 seconds left to act
H8ONLINEPOKER2 calls 280
claudiudcd calls 280
*** TURN *** [3d 4h 7h] [6d]
H8ONLINEPOKER2 checks
claudiudcd bets 40
futrillo raises to 935, and is all in
Vo-4ka folds
H8ONLINEPOKER2 has 15 seconds left to act
H8ONLINEPOKER2 calls 820, and is all in
claudiudcd calls 895
futrillo shows [Qc Qd]
H8ONLINEPOKER2 shows [Ah Th]
claudiudcd shows [5h Jh]
*** RIVER *** [3d 4h 7h 6d] [9c]

and this one??

At least you had a 4-Flush. But thats all you had with a straight-looking board. You had no pair on turn, usually a bad sign, as there's no fallback. One other thing about this hand was the large amt. of players involved compared to other two hands. The pot got juiced early, and the greed ensued.