Just Dice gaming site
Just Dice was founded a year ago in British Columbia. It deals exclusively in BitCoin. Has anyone tried it?
Quote: AxelWolfWhat if Bitcoin takes a dump while you are playing? Buy in for 1k break even after playing for 6 hrs then bitcoin drops 20%.
Why would the value of bit coin matter as long as you deposit in units of bit coin, gamble in units of bit coin, and withdraw in units of bitcoin?
Quote: AxelWolfWhat if Bitcoin takes a dump while you are playing? Buy in for 1k break even after playing for 6 hrs then bitcoin drops 20%.
Wouldn't that make it more fun?
It's a crowd funded site by the way.
They post that have made 17,651.36821291 bitcoins @ $646.5 is $11,411,610 ($11.4 million). I think the site is less than a year old.
May I refer you to my dormant thread on BitSaloon where, after I posted on it, the two owners actually joined this forum and responded to questions about their using BitCoins only and their open algorithms. Anyone heard of them lately???Quote: pacomartinArticle on Just Dice Bitcoin gaming siteJust Dice was founded a year ago in British Columbia. It deals exclusively in BitCoin. Has anyone tried it?
I dont understand what your asking.Quote: rudeboyoiWhy would the value of bit coin matter as long as you deposit in units of bit coin, gamble in units of bit coin, and withdraw in units of bitcoin?
Just having bitcoins is a risk. Unless you can get in and out quickly. I don't know if the bitcoins move at night and you would be safe during this period of time. Not sure how fast you can convert Bitcons to cash. I assume its instantly.
I assume you are playing with bitcoins. Or its bitcoins to credits and then credits to bitcoins. What if you deposit 1k using bit coins get 1k in credits then cash out back to bitcoins and the bit coins are only worth $500? Bitcoin Droped 50% overnight at one point I believe. If you are bullish about bitcoins then sounds fine to me. I wish bitcoins were stable.
they could drop in a short period of time before you convert them into cash. I guess they could go up as well.
Quote: FleaStiffMay I refer you to my dormant thread on BitSaloon where, after I posted on it, the two owners actually joined this forum and responded to questions about their using BitCoins only and their open algorithms. Anyone heard of them lately???
Names on the site are
Chris Moore
Deb
drfred
Do you know what names they used on the forum?
Quote: AxelWolfI dont understand what your asking.
Just having bitcoins is a risk. Unless you can get in and out quickly. I don't know if the bitcoins move at night and you would be safe during this period of time. Not sure how fast you can convert Bitcons to cash. I assume its instantly.
I assume you are playing with bitcoins. Or its bitcoins to credits and then credits to bitcoins. What if you deposit 1k using bit coins get 1k in credits then cash out back to bitcoins and the bit coins are only worth $500? Bitcoin Droped 50% overnight at one point I believe. If you are bullish about bitcoins then sounds fine to me. I wish bitcoins were stable.
they could drop in a short period of time before you convert them into cash. I guess they could go up as well.
What I'm saying is as long as every transaction from start to finish is handled in the same currency it does not matter what the value of that currency is.
Quote: AxelWolfthey could drop in a short period of time before you convert them into cash. I guess they could go up as well.
But then the problem is the volatility of Bitcoin, not playing craps with them. I mean, they may drop in value overnight if they're safe (are they?) in your hard drive.
Quote: pacomartinNames on the site are
Chris Moore
Deb
drfred
Do you know what names they used on the forum?
I believe they joined as "BitCoin" and the site was owned by Justin Pincair(BitCoin) and Kevin Meehan.
I don't know if the site still exists or its ownership at present. I got error messages when I searched for it.
I was impressed with their claim of openess and with the fact that they joined the forum to reply directly to questions, but it could still be not quite on the up and up as I thought.
Quote: FleaStiffI believe they joined as "BitCoin" and the site was owned by Justin Pincair(BitCoin) and Kevin Meehan.
It's a different site. They did post three times last June
Quote: BitSaloonHey folks,
I'm one of the owners of BitSaloon, and I'm glad to answer any questions you might have about the site. Transparency is really important to us, and we'd love your feedback on how we can improve.
We're not currently publicizing all of our code as we don't want anyone using it for a competing site, but we're more than happy to share in plain english how any of our algorithms work and how you can verify the results and see that we're honest.
Best,- Justin
BitSaloon.com
Quote: BitSaloonYes, we currently only accept bitcoin deposits. With talks of the USA legalizing online gambling, we might expand to accept USD (and EUR since the work involved will be similar) in the future to get a jump in that market. We're based in Ireland, and while we're sticking pretty closely to their laws, dealing solely in bitcoins gives us more flexibility. Particularly, we don't have to obtain a gambling license yet since bitcoin isn't a fiat currency, although this is on our roadmap regardless.
The bitcoin blockchain offers unique insight into transactions, and we could prove that our customers have been depositing and withdrawing from their accounts. Obviously that could be a pretty big privacy issue for some people, so we're not going to do that without their permission.
Any online casino could be provably fair with the right algorithms - this isn't specific to bitcoin. As P90 said though, transparency is particularly important to bitcoin users, and we think it's just good business to be as open and honest as possible, so that's a big focus for us.
- Justin
BitSaloon.com
Quote: BitSaloonBitSaloon has two owners, myself (Justin Pincar), and Kevin Meehan.
We currently keep track of accounts using session cookies. When someone loses access to their account, we generate and send them a one-time-use link that restores their access. We're currently building out optional user account creation/login as well. Until we make the login accounts public, using our site in incognito windows wouldn't work well.
It is crowdfunded.
The dice is just a gimmick
The bank has 41964.08360669 bitcoins at this moment (roughly $27 million)
The maximum you are allowed to win on any one bet is 0.5% of bank at that moment or 209.82 bitcoins (roughly $136K)
You can select your own odds to the limit of 8 digits in a bitcoin (maximum divisibility of a bitcoin)
The rule is odds times payout = 99% (most common bet is payout of 2, odds of winning are 49.5%)
That's all there is to it. You can sit there all day betting within the confines of those rules.
I mentioned it could go up to. "somewhat more volatile more volatile." is the understatement of the year its more like a risky stock the a currency.Quote: VenthusThey can also go up overnight too though. It's pretty much just like converting to any other currency to play, except somewhat more volatile.
I don't know how I can explain it anymore clear then I did. It would make no difference if when you cashed out the bitcoins were worth as much as when you put them in. If bit coins went to Zero (I know that's a stretch) while you were playing then what?Quote: rudeboyoiWhy would the value of bit coin matter as long as you deposit in units of bit coin, gamble in units of bit coin, and withdraw in units of bitcoin?
It makes no diffidence as to the the odds, legitimacy of game, game-play or the casino of course. Its just a second thing you have to worry about. I'm sure a quick in and out of the casino and back to cash would be fine. Are there transaction fees Bitcoin to cash?
Unless they have a +EV situation im not interested no matter what. Doubtful but, Does this casino we are talking about have bonuses?
I have quite and interest in Bitcoin. I should read up more on it however, I like to hear more about it from people I know including their thoughts and personal experiences I would love for Bitcoin to be more stable and for all the online casinos start taking them. GO GO Bitcoin. Ill probably be sorry one day for not investing.
From what I hear there are quite a few hoops to jump through to buy Bitcoins (Live web cam photo?). To be fair I hate just having to dig out my credit card and filling out information forms(probably a good thing or I would be buying a lot more crap I don't need) The automatic form fillers never seem to work universally.
As far as the other hoops regarding BC I might be mixing that up with how to do it anomalously ONLY and use them for underground transactions on places like silkroad.
Early in the game, the owner made a 1300 bitcoin error. What happened was this: a player won a load of bitcoins on the site and asked to withdraw them, the owner paid out, but forgot to remove the balance from the user’s Just-Dice account. The user then gambled – and lost – the bitcoins that were left in his account .
Naturally, the user claimed someone took his computer and gambled away the money.
Anyway, the owner was completely upfront and posted his error on the site forum.
Quote: AxelWolfI don't know how I can explain it anymore clear then I did. It would make no difference if when you cashed out the bitcoins were worth as much as when you put them in. If bit coins went to Zero (I know that's a stretch) while you were playing then what?
It makes no diffidence as to the the odds, legitimacy of game, game-play or the casino of course. Its just a second thing you have to worry about. I'm sure a quick in and out of the casino and back to cash would be fine. Are there transaction fees Bitcoin to cash?
Unless they have a +EV situation im not interested no matter what. Doubtful but, Does this casino we are talking about have bonuses?
I have quite and interest in Bitcoin. I should read up more on it however, I like to hear more about it from people I know including their thoughts and personal experiences I would love for Bitcoin to be more stable and for all the online casinos start taking them. GO GO Bitcoin. Ill probably be sorry one day for not investing.
From what I hear there are quite a few hoops to jump through to buy Bitcoins (Live web cam photo?). To be fair I hate just having to dig out my credit card and filling out information forms(probably a good thing or I would be buying a lot more crap I don't need) The automatic form fillers never seem to work universally.
As far as the other hoops regarding BC I might be mixing that up with how to do it anomalously ONLY and use them for underground transactions on places like silkroad.
My whole point is that as long as the same unit of currency is used throughout the process the value of the currency does not matter. When you deposit in USD, gamble in USD, and withdraw in USD, does the value of the USD matter?
Quote: rudeboyoiMy whole point is that as long as the same unit of currency is used throughout the process the value of the currency does not matter. When you deposit in USD, gamble in USD, and withdraw in USD, does the value of the USD matter?
It's a variable, in this case. You have USD, already, so by necessity, you are subject to the ebb and flow of the valuations of USD if you ever want to convert it to another currency. However, USD tends to remain pretty price-stable, within the confines of this country, in terms of the value of the goods that the USD will enable you to acquire. Simply by getting paid in USD, you have unwittingly invested in USD.
The Bitcoin value is going to have greater variance, because unlike a U.S. casino, the process is three-fold:
1.) Convert your currency to Bitcoin.
2.) Gamble
3.) Convert your currency back to USD.
The only way the value of the Bitcoin would not matter is if you never intended to convert the Bitcoin back to USD, or convert it to anything else, for that matter. In such an event, you'd either be playing to lose or would be investing actual USD in what essentially becomes a, "Play for fun," game.
Bitcoin is a far more volatile currency than traditional currencies usually are. The Bitcoin itself could either be a good investment or a bad one, it just depends if it converts back into more USD (after fees) than what you exchanged the Bitcoin for, but that's completely unrelated to the gambling aspect...you could just buy Bitcoin and not gamble it.
As Axelwolf pointed out, the question is not whether or not negative expectation gambling is a good investment: We know that it is not. The question is whether or not Bitcoin is a good investment.
1) if you can become a part of the investment pool that other gamblers try to win
2) if the casino itself does the conversion and doesn't charge a fee you can use it as a way to "trade" bit coin for cheaper (assuming you have to give some amount of action to the casino to not cut you off)
3) there's some promotion going on that makes playing the games themselves +EV
Quote: rudeboyoiUnless the casino does the conversion itself then I think it should be treated as two different scenarios. +EV reasons I can come up with for playing bit coin casinos are:
1) if you can become a part of the investment pool that other gamblers try to win
2) if the casino itself does the conversion and doesn't charge a fee you can use it as a way to "trade" bit coin for cheaper (assuming you have to give some amount of action to the casino to not cut you off)
3) there's some promotion going on that makes playing the games themselves +EV
(1) The game is crowd funded. The investor pool gets 90% of profits, and the website owners get 10% of profits.
(2) The game is in Canada, and they don't convert to CAD or USD. The game is for bitcoin owners. They give you advice on how to get a bitcoin if you want.
I presume the RCMP would bust the owners immediately if they were dealing in CAD or USD
(3) The games are not +EV (what casino has a +EV game). But house edge is fixed at 1%. If you are investor you can earn back 90% of the 1%.
Solvency is protected by limiting the maximum winnings to .5% of the bank (currently 216.16 bitcoins). If a whale severely cuts the bank the next whale is more restricted in his bet size.
The article dated July 19, 2013 (a month after it opened) said so far, the largest amount lost on one bet was a whopping 640 BTC and the biggest win was 303 BTC. At the time BTC were roughly US$120.
There is no simulation of casino games. The bets are purely mathematical. SatoshiDice seems to be the leader in this field.
Quote: pacomartinThe article dated July 19, 2013 (a month after it opened) said so far, the largest amount lost on one bet was a whopping 640 BTC and the biggest win was 303 BTC. At the time BTC were roughly US$120.
A larger loss on the site is discussed in great deal in bitcoin forums
On Oct 2, 2013 a better managed to double his 1700 bitcoins in an hour with 12 bets. All of the bets were over 90% chance of winning and he won 4% to 8% each time
He came back 36 hours later and made 7 more bets after which he had triple his original stake. Then 6.5 hours he made 6 more bets and quadrupled his original bet.
He was now ahead 5000 BTC which was worth about $600K at the time (but has been worth as high as $5 or $6 million since. After a 2 hour period he made one more fateful bet and lost all 7000 BTC.
Quote: rudeboyoiMy whole point is that as long as the same unit of currency is used throughout the process the value of the currency does not matter. When you deposit in USD, gamble in USD, and withdraw in USD, does the value of the USD matter?
I currently have USD. I do not have any bitcoins. In order to play on a bitcoin casino, I must use my USD to purchase bitcoins. I now own bitcoins. I play for 6 hours and break even on the game. I now have bitcoins. I do not want bitcoins. I sell them for USD. I receive fewer USD than I had when I bought the bitcoins 6 hours ago. How does this not suck for me?
Quote: rdw4potusHow does this not suck for me?
For starters online gambling in USD is illegal. It is also possible for bitcoins to go up in 6 hours. I also doubt that most people convert in and out of bitcoins over a period of a few hours. One SUBWAY® near hear accepts bitcoins in payment for sandwiches. So if you hit it big you can buy lunch for a year.
Quote: pacomartinFor starters online gambling in USD is illegal. It is also possible for bitcoins to go up in 6 hours. I also doubt that most people convert in and out of bitcoins over a period of a few hours. One SUBWAY® near hear accepts bitcoins in payment for sandwiches. So if you hit it big you can buy lunch for a year.
Online gambling in USD is illegal? What currency is used in New Jersey? Is there any exchange risk associated with the conversion from USD to that currency?
Quote: rdw4potusOnline gambling in USD is illegal? What currency is used in New Jersey?
Besides Jersey. I clearly forgot about them.
I am really not sure of the point you are making here. Surely every adult in the country understands that if you change from one "store of value" to another whether it be another currency, diamonds, real estate, or antiques, there is both transaction fees and market risk to consider. Bitcoins may be a shared delusion, but that can be understood as a basic component of measure of value.
They are going to set the site up as a 'play coin' venue until they can get a full legal review.
