richbailey86
richbailey86
Joined: May 8, 2014
  • Threads: 38
  • Posts: 325
September 15th, 2014 at 5:36:52 PM permalink
Quote: 4ofaKind

August 26, you made these comments below questioning RTG's creditability. Just wondering how in 2 weeks you were able to confirm their honesty and how safe they are for USA players to the point that you feel comfortable recommending them? Were you able to experience Bovado since you last stated you were unable to play there?

richbailey86 Quotes:

08/26 - "Do you guys think rtg is legit and fair or rigged? Bovada is obviously recommended here. I cant use Bovada because they dont accept NY I don't think. I use clubworld which is supposed to be trustworthy and it is rtg like Bovada"

08/27 - "does anyone really know if rtg software is coded to log and adapt to betting patterns on games like roulette or is it truly random" :End Quotes:

Also how did you confirm Mainstreet RTG group are also safe and recommendable for USA players?



i trusted casino meisters "accredited" casino page, thats why......i never had a reason to suspect casinomeister was a bad source

but if you think they are show me evidence so i can form a decision instead of belittling me
An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government. Ė Ron Paul
4ofaKind
4ofaKind
Joined: Sep 28, 2010
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 221
September 16th, 2014 at 2:12:52 AM permalink
Quote: richbailey86

i trusted casino meisters "accredited" casino page, thats why......i never had a reason to suspect casinomeister was a bad source

but if you think they are show me evidence so i can form a decision instead of belittling me


I only asked a legitimate question and not sure why you felt I was trying to belittle you.

Iím certain you read my opinions based on facts why online gaming in general, especially for USA players is foolish. It's also obvious that everyone wants to deny those confirmed facts and just pretend none of those problems exist. Look at your own response above. After all the different negative things I discussed about the risks and dangers of online gaming, all you want to discuss is Casinomeister's creditability on where you could play. (Talk about denial of the facts) So I guess I'll discuss and share my opinion about him.

I could only assume that youíre not an active member at Casinomeister if you have no reason to suspect he is a bad source. I think when he started 15 years ago he had the right intentions. Today it became obvious heís nothing but a shill for the casinos he sponsors and who are willing to pay him for that right. He runs a seriously prejudiced kangaroo court when there is a complaint against one of his accredited sponsored casinos. The lengths he and his cronies and dedicated cult followers will go through to protect the integrity of the site are sickening. Don't forget most of the online casino sites belong to groups, and if you ban one then the whole group has to go. Talk about negative -EV.

Every complaint is usually a newbie to the site, and every case will end with the newbie being accused of fraud, multi-accounting, APíing, and being banned. The newbie usually never gets to respond since their usually immediately banned after the announcement. In addition you never get to view any evidence since it remains top secret between the casinos and Casinomeisterís Kangaroo Court. This is done so as not to teach the fraudsters how the casinos uncover the evidence. In fact the whole fn process is a complete secret. The complaint poster is not allowed to even post about it anymore till the case is resolved, and will usually be banned before he ever gets to respond.

Here's one of the rules if you make a complaint. Quote: "Among other things the FAQ details your responsibilities in the PAB process (section 3.11), including NOT posting (any further) on our forums about your issue while the PAB is in progress." :End Quote:

The extreme members will always agree no matter what he says, and if the other members start ganging up against his decision he'll go to his death or your banning in defense of them. In many cases he'll lock the thread, but regardless, eventually they all become an archive, lost, and are forgotten. It always amazed me how a thread with a serious issue being debated suddenly comes to a stop and just fades away into the archives after he makes a statement expressing his opinion with the cult followers in agreement. That's because everyone knows that if they try to continue the debate they'll get banned. Sometimes you even wonder if some of these long time cult followers are real or created members he controls and uses for support, or just have the same DNA since their always 100% in agreement.

Also it's fair to keep in mind that there are fraudsters out there that will do anything to get money out of the casinos. Yet, it became a suspicious pattern when every complaint resulted in the same outcomes for years when it's an accredited casino on his list. The accredited casinos are never wrong, unless of course everyone knows about an undeniable fraud act, then he has no choice but to join everyone else and ban them.

Anyone with an objective opinion or demand proof of anything he claims to have been told through his connections as fact, will be labeled conspiracy tin foil hat idiots, trolls, (his selective list of name calling is long) and will be banned. Iíve been banned years ago and also witnessed hundreds of educated posters also get banned over the years. If you donít drink the cool-aid your out of there. It's just an endless flushing of newbies and bannings cycling over and over, while the cult members remain and some long time special cult members even get to advertise their own web-sites that also promote online gaming and get to leave a link under their names.

In 15 minutes I found two recent threads with complaints against his accredited list. This one he sided with the casino before the poster even filed a complaint because the poster felt that the PAB would be a biased decision. Instead the poster wanted opinions from the members. Eventually, Casinomeister warned the player if he didnít file a formal complaint he would lock the thread. (Simply because the majority of the members were siding with the player out numbering the cult followers who of course sided with him) The poster eventually filed the complaint, but he still locked the thread pending the outcome. So stay tuned for the outcome, or would you like me to tell you now what it will be? Eight days and still no response ... must be a hell of a case.
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63858

This second one I found involves a longtime members brother with a complaint against no other then CWG one of the RTG groups you also recommended.

Well the brother got banned along with a few other members that questioned his motives in that thread who didnít agree with the outcome which of course was ruled in the casinoís favor. Max started to even accuse the long time member and his brother of fraud, but never followed up with any proof. How this long time member is still there is beyond me, but since heís on their radar now, the first chance they get heíll be banned also. Long time members with a personal opinion have to get banned delicately.
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63759

These same exact type threads are endless and are all lost and forgotten in the archives. Heís like that ever-ready battery commercial and just keeps going with the cult members and newbieís like you who do no research and just assume the bullshit you read is accurate, and even end up help promoting his niche.

There's just such a serious case of conflict of interests when your asking a person that gets paid from the casinos to make a ruling against them that could only result in lowering that persons salary. After all this guy is not Mother Theresa. Besides, she died.

If youíre promoting Casinomeister recommendations, and not your own experiences, you should make that clear up front. Since youíre a member of this forum, people reading your posts here might respect your opinion not knowing itís someone else.

Edit - 09-17 - Fixed some terribly worded sentences.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 151
  • Posts: 19779
September 16th, 2014 at 6:11:54 AM permalink
richbailey86

I used to use Casinomeister years ago as a source It was a hustle and bustling site with good information(so I thought ).

I have known 4ofaKind to be a long time respected member online. Details are somewhat sketchy but I believe 4ofaKind was a frequent poster and online player. I believe he has some interesting inside information about Casinomeister and the "accredited casinos".

One day something at Casinomeister changed (sold out??) but after that, things were never the same.

I disagree that everybody should avoid playing online, I made that mistake early on in the glory days. I dabbled early on in 95- 97 with some success but got busy with B&M casinos. I was playing one of the first online casinos, I believe it was called the Gaming Club. Then I played inter-casino (BJ seemed very rigged to me and, I stopped even with a big theoretical edge)

About 1999 I played Planet poker with bad results. Soon after I played at Windward, they had $1 FPDW with bonuses, I did fantastic(first day alone, ducks 3 times, RF and beat the drop. BJ results were not so good with the big bets.) I found a different western themed casino that had 103% $1 VP.The FH paid way over the norm. I got 1 week of play and the game was axed.

I took a break from online for B&M, I should have jumped in full force online concentrating with the bonuses, and did both online and B&M somehow.

When I came back to online again I heard to many horror stories from competing blacklist affiliate sites. I proceeded with extreme caution. Finally I started trying a few juicy plays at discredited and reputable online casinos. IE. discredited casino, deposit 2k get %300 bonus 2x wagering. Did great and got paid quick.

Wagering requirements and restrictions got steeper and more completed. Pay pal then Neteller pulled out and made it difficult.

Nowadays there is some value online, its not as grim as 4ofaKind seems to indicate however, you should not listen to ANYONE advocating or discrediting online casinos, do your own research and experiments. I wish I did that more years ago.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
4ofaKind
4ofaKind
Joined: Sep 28, 2010
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 221
September 17th, 2014 at 9:25:13 AM permalink
Here's another site OCR not happy with Casinomeister. This happened two years ago, but I remember it was an interesting issue ...

Click on the two red links in the article to view the threads. One is the Betfred thread and the other is another interesting thread.

Also while scanning these threads check out all the red banned members throughout them. They all may not have been banned the day of the threads, but their opinions eventually got them banned.


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&ved=0CEcQFjAK&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.onlinecasinorecommendations.com%2F2012%2F09%2Favoid-betfred-and-casinomeister-like.html&ei=k7EZVOKpNtTYoATys4H4Cg&usg=AFQjCNGNOhH9cd3F9rG5tWe0aHSflX83jg&bvm=bv.75097201,d.cGU&cad=rja

Edit - 09/19 - In addition you should click on some of the articles under Popular Posts at the OCR site I linked above. Very interesting stuff and well written making a good read.
richbailey86
richbailey86
Joined: May 8, 2014
  • Threads: 38
  • Posts: 325
September 17th, 2014 at 2:39:41 PM permalink
Quote: 4ofaKind

I only asked a legitimate question and not sure why you felt I was trying to belittle you.

Iím certain you read my opinions based on facts why online gaming in general, especially for USA players is foolish. It's also obvious that everyone wants to deny those confirmed facts and just pretend none of those problems exist. Look at your own response above. After all the different negative things I discussed about the risks and dangers of online gaming, all you want to discuss is Casinomeister's creditability on where you could play. (Talk about denial of the facts) So I guess I'll discuss and share my opinion about him.

I could only assume that youíre not an active member at Casinomeister if you have no reason to suspect he is a bad source. I think when he started 15 years ago he had the right intentions. Today it became obvious heís nothing but a shill for the casinos he sponsors and who are willing to pay him for that right. He runs a seriously prejudiced kangaroo court when there is a complaint against one of his accredited sponsored casinos. The lengths he and his cronies and dedicated cult followers will go through to protect the integrity of the site are sickening. Don't forget most of the online casino sites belong to groups, and if you ban one then the whole group has to go. Talk about negative -EV.

Every complaint is usually a newbie to the site, and every case will end with the newbie being accused of fraud, multi-accounting, APíing, and being banned. The newbie usually never gets to respond since their usually immediately banned after the announcement. In addition you never get to view any evidence since it remains top secret between the casinos and Casinomeisterís Kangaroo Court. This is done so as not to teach the fraudsters how the casinos uncover the evidence. In fact the whole fn process is a complete secret. The complaint poster is not allowed to even post about it anymore till the case is resolved, and will usually be banned before he ever gets to respond.

Here's one of the rules if you make a complaint. Quote: "Among other things the FAQ details your responsibilities in the PAB process (section 3.11), including NOT posting (any further) on our forums about your issue while the PAB is in progress." :End Quote:

The extreme members will always agree no matter what he says, and if the other members start ganging up against his decision he'll go to his death or your banning in defense of them. In many cases he'll lock the thread, but regardless, eventually they all become an archive, lost, and are forgotten. It always amazed me how a thread with a serious issue being debated suddenly comes to a stop and just fades away into the archives after he makes a statement expressing his opinion with the cult followers in agreement. That's because everyone knows that if they try to continue the debate they'll get banned. Sometimes you even wonder if some of these long time cult followers are real or created members he controls and uses for support, or just have the same DNA since their always 100% in agreement.

Also it's fair to keep in mind that there are fraudsters out there that will do anything to get money out of the casinos. Yet, it became a suspicious pattern when every complaint resulted in the same outcomes for years when it's an accredited casino on his list. The accredited casinos are never wrong, unless of course everyone knows about an undeniable fraud act, then he has no choice but to join everyone else and ban them.

Anyone with an objective opinion or demand proof of anything he claims to have been told through his connections as fact, will be labeled conspiracy tin foil hat idiots, trolls, (his selective list of name calling is long) and will be banned. Iíve been banned years ago and also witnessed hundreds of educated posters also get banned over the years. If you donít drink the cool-aid your out of there. It's just an endless flushing of newbies and bannings cycling over and over, while the cult members remain and some long time special cult members even get to advertise their own web-sites that also promote online gaming and get to leave a link under their names.

In 15 minutes I found two recent threads with complaints against his accredited list. This one he sided with the casino before the poster even filed a complaint because the poster felt that the PAB would be a biased decision. Instead the poster wanted opinions from the members. Eventually, Casinomeister warned the player if he didnít file a formal complaint he would lock the thread. (Simply because the majority of the members were siding with the player out numbering the cult followers who of course sided with him) The poster eventually filed the complaint, but he still locked the thread pending the outcome. So stay tuned for the outcome, or would you like me to tell you now what it will be? Eight days and still no response ... must be a hell of a case.
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63858

This second one I found involves a longtime members brother with a complaint against no other then CWG one of the RTG groups you also recommended.

Well the brother got banned along with a few other members that questioned his motives in that thread who didnít agree with the outcome which of course was ruled in the casinoís favor. Max started to even accuse the long time member and his brother of fraud, but never followed up with any proof. How this long time member is still there is beyond me, but since heís on their radar now, the first chance they get heíll be banned also. Long time members with a personal opinion have to get banned delicately.
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63759

These same exact type threads are endless and are all lost and forgotten in the archives. Heís like that ever-ready battery commercial and just keeps going with the cult members and newbieís like you who do no research and just assume the bullshit you read is accurate, and even end up help promoting his niche.

There's just such a serious case of conflict of interests when your asking a person that gets paid from the casinos to make a ruling against them that could only result in lowering that persons salary. After all this guy is not Mother Theresa. Besides, she died.

If youíre promoting Casinomeister recommendations, and not your own experiences, you should make that clear up front. Since youíre a member of this forum, people reading your posts here might respect your opinion not knowing itís someone else.

Edit - 09-17 - Fixed some terribly worded sentences.



i understand

thank you for the explanation.

i guess it is a major conflict of interest. sort of like the FDA and the vaccine industry.....

i got ya

i see it an entire different way now.........there are some really good ones out there, too bad not available to US
An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government. Ė Ron Paul
richbailey86
richbailey86
Joined: May 8, 2014
  • Threads: 38
  • Posts: 325
September 17th, 2014 at 2:40:58 PM permalink
thanks for the info
An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government. Ė Ron Paul
4ofaKind
4ofaKind
Joined: Sep 28, 2010
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 221
September 19th, 2014 at 10:54:48 AM permalink
Just a little update on the nonsense that goes on over there. We all know that certain posters need to be banned for being idiots. But just between the two threads I linked to in my post, and the two threads OCR above links to, a total of 22 members in just those four threads were banned. This member banning by the way is just the tip of the iceberg.

In addition I didn't think the brother in one of my linked threads would be around long. Well he got banned for 30 days yesterday and I'm sure he probably won't return anyway. And still no answer from the PAB in my other linked thread over 25K.

Like OCR says in their post. Once his motto was "Player advocate," and now reads "advocate for fair play."
Because he doesn't give a rat's ass about the player.
PlayHunter
PlayHunter
Joined: Sep 16, 2011
  • Threads: 67
  • Posts: 269
September 19th, 2014 at 1:38:36 PM permalink
Please let me share my experience in regards to monetary complaints:

I have not been paid my withdrawal for 15 business days from one poker room. (they should pay me in 2 business days, and according to their T&C`s they dont initiate payments on weekends) All that time I kept asking them what the problem is, and their responses each time was that I will be paid soon. After 15 business days have passed, I have decided to initiate some complaints regarding their stalling payment. (I previously warned them about my future actions in case I will not be paid in 15 business days).
And so, on a Sunday I have placed one PAB complaint at Casinomeister and on the same day one `grumble` (with exactly the same details) at Steve Russo (a very objective and professional person, almost always eager to help, even on week-ends) from www(dot)GamblingGrumbles(dot)com which is a partner website of www(dot)GamblingCity(dot)com Ė (my preffered venue).

The result was that just a few hours later I have got my money on my e-wallet account due to Steve Russo's involving.

After I have got my money, still on that very same Sunday, I've sent a note to Max from Casinomeister to discard my PAB complaint, because it has been solved via GamblingGrumbles. The shocking part to me was that three days later, on Wednesday, Bryan from Casinomeister sent me an email asking me some more details about my PAB initiated on Sunday!?! (??how professional was that??)

OK, what you can and can't trust? As AxelWolf said, do your research! Here are some of my findings which you may find useful:

- all gambling websites allowing USA players have maximum cashouts (the biggest paying one being 5Dimes with $9K in 48 hours)
- most casinos and bookmakers (if not all) are looking for casual players and do their best to limit/screw pro's and +EV bonus play
- if you still decide to play online, you are much better guarded if you play via an affiliate who can also help you in case of troubles
- do not play games which can pay million(s) in cash if the casino treat jackpot hits with regular withdrawals (like $3K/week or so)

My choices would be: 5Dimes (even for very large withdrawals); Bovada and Club World Group. Deck Media Group - only for the diversity (they have Rival, Top Game, WGS, RTG platform casinos) of casual players guarded by an affiliate - pro's are excluded.

If you reside outside of the USA (even if you have an US nationality) you have many more options for casual / business online play.

And my choices would go as follow: Pinnacle (no max payout limit); Betfair (no max payout limit); BETDAQ (same company as Ladbrokes but no max payout limit); Ladbrokes (Ä37,500/24 hours); Bet365 (£20,000/24hours); 32Red Group ($10K/Ä5K/24hours).
4ofaKind
4ofaKind
Joined: Sep 28, 2010
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 221
September 25th, 2014 at 6:27:29 AM permalink
That issue I linked to in above post with 32 Red and 25K being denied to the player was resolved.

Kudos to 32 Red for deciding to pay the player for a mistake the casino made.


"The reason that the casino changed its original stance is that there were other factors which were ultimately cleared up. Those factors are not free for me to discuss but those factors, in the eyes of the PAB service, were sufficient justification for the initial stance taken."

Yet, the player is confused by this comment with his response of,

"I am confused about these other factors, as nothing other than the issue discussed here has been mentioned to me. If I am understanding correctly, you are saying these 'factors' were sufficient enough for you to say I shouldn't be paid. But in the previous sentence you said they were cleared up."

32 Red shows they are a class act. Not sure why the additional comments above.

Now the clan over there is pretty much telling the player he owes meister his first born for getting paid.

EDIT: Thought he backed them before the PAB. Was completely wrong and wanted to correct previous mis-information.
TruthYeller
TruthYeller
Joined: Sep 27, 2014
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 18
September 27th, 2014 at 12:33:01 AM permalink
No, No, and NO.... I just made this account after testing out Bovado... having seen that everyone is pumping it. How much are you are getting for an affiliate's cut, a few thousand? Freakin snakes - I'm here to expose you all.

Here's the deal OP... DO NOT fool around with ANY OF THE ONLINE CASINOS. They WILL cheat and take your $$$. As with the rest, it's same story... software behaves to certain conditions, using some really slick IF/THEN, and some other complicated decision logic. Good thing I'm a "dev".

I've taken about $2000 of my live casino winnings and wanted to test to see if I could slowly grind out a small daily profit online. Bovado was my "last stop." IT DOESN'T WORK PEOPLE! Especially if you're looking for a Craps game. Wizard of Vegas, and all these other guys put in a little time to whip up a PHP or Asp.Net, and justify that they're warning you of sites to steer clear of, and those that are friendly. I can guarantee you that from the advertisement they get, they're pulling in WAY MORE than you're losing.

Now that I know this... I'm not only gonna stick with live brick casinos, where you can't get ripped off... but I'm gonna blast these people like Wizard of Vegas and others, and jack up their $$$ money.... and put the real deal out there. Stay away from the online action people.

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