Article on cheating online software
crooks in the online casino industry
Since Las Vegas became regulated I can only recall one case where a programmer rigged a couple of slot games and was also able to pick all 10 Keno numbers in Atlantic City having the source code in hand, for personal gain.
In New York I also recall a lottery employee rigging the bouncing ping pong balls by making selected numbered balls lighter then others gaining a large advantage on probability of being sucked out. Once again this was for personal gain.
If land based casinos today (in regulated jurisdictions) were found guilty of being able to operate rigged software under the regulators eyes or were found to be in collusion with regulators; this would mean the State the casinos operate in are also fraudsters and are knowingly committing a felony and therefore would then become a federal investigation.
Serious mega casino resorts are operated and controlled by mega billion dollar investors with mega billion dollar pockets. Annual swings of multi million dollar wins or losses can and are expected. I feel comfortable knowing the states that offer these land based regulated casinos would do everything in its power to protect the integrity of their cash cow tax incomes.
When playing online casinos you’re not even certain what country their operating from. Forget about even considering regulators or regulation enforcement. Not many wheels need to be greased to get away with operating a fraud operation online, and certainly no fear of dire consequences if exposed.
In my opinion, what Eliot exposed about this particular case is only a drop in the bucket when compared to what’s still going on with online gaming after almost two decades. I'm certain there are many online auditors out there not having the same integrity as Eliot.
"Quote" "This software company continues to have its product in dozens of online casinos worldwide".
It would be interesting if Eliot could tell us if this was reported to the different online regulators where these dozens of online casinos are still operating, and what was their response?
Quote: 4ofaKindIn my opinion, what Eliot exposed about this particular case is only a drop in the bucket when compared to what’s still going on with online gaming after almost two decades.
For almost two decades the industry has been demonized and harassed by various governments for offering a service that people enjoy. It doesn't surprise me that such a situation would attract scumbags as operators.
Not reported. Perhaps Charles will choose a different way of doing business than the choices I made. But for me, when a client hires me, I can't turn around and make it public when I find out they are creating rogue products. I just refused certification. I did this several times.Quote: 4ofaKindIt would be interesting if Eliot could tell us if this was reported to the different online regulators where these dozens of online casinos are still operating, and what was their response?
I stand behind the CFG certified casinos. They passed fairness audits not once, but multiple times. Once you know that I failed to certify some casinos & casino software products, and that I have refused large sums of money for rubber stamp certifications, that should add substantial credibility to those casinos that are certified.
In my opinion, a substantial part of commercial online casino software has the capability to act rogue. But it is also true that there are software products that are 100% fair and safe for which no such rogue modes exist. Those who express a blanket opinion that every online casino cheats or that every piece of software is capable of cheating are speaking from ignorance. Those who argue conspiracy theories or secret methods of hiding bias are simply misguided. Such statements do disservice to the good guys, and I know many of those.
I think Charles is going to take CFG to a whole new level. I am excited to see what he does.
Quote: teliotNot reported. Perhaps Charles will choose a different way of doing business than the choices I made. But for me, when a client hires me, I can't turn around and make it public when I find out they are creating rogue products. I just refused certification. I did this several times.
I stand behind the CFG certified casinos. They passed fairness audits not once, but multiple times. Once you know that I failed to certify some casinos & casino software products, and that I have refused large sums of money for rubber stamp certifications, that should add substantial credibility to those casinos that are certified. In my opinion, a substantial part of the market is rogue. But it is also true that there are software products that are 100% fair and safe. Those who express a blanket opinion that the every online casino cheats are speaking from ignorance. There are safe and fair online casinos.
I think Charles is going to take CFG to a whole new level. I am excited to see what he does.
So Charles bought your business? Congrats to both of you. I saw the ad you put on the board a few months ago, but never heard anything more about it.
once an online casino gets your certification what keeps them from then doing something to change the way things work.Quote: teliotNot reported. Perhaps Charles will choose a different way of doing business than the choices I made. But for me, when a client hires me, I can't turn around and make it public when I find out they are creating rogue products. I just refused certification. I did this several times.
I stand behind the CFG certified casinos. They passed fairness audits not once, but multiple times. Once you know that I failed to certify some casinos & casino software products, and that I have refused large sums of money for rubber stamp certifications, that should add substantial credibility to those casinos that are certified.
In my opinion, a substantial part of commercial online casino software has the capability to act rogue. But it is also true that there are software products that are 100% fair and safe for which no such rogue modes exist. Those who express a blanket opinion that every online casino cheats or that every piece of software is capable of cheating are speaking from ignorance. Those who argue conspiracy theories or secret methods of hiding bias are simply misguided. Such statements do disservice to the good guys, and I know many of those.
I think Charles is going to take CFG to a whole new level. I am excited to see what he does.
Do you check each and every game they have ? some casinos online have hundreds.
If they make a new game do you then check that game?
One thing I always watch out for is if the person who is running it has any indication of a flaw in their integrity, for example, advocating theft. After a while you get pretty good at reading someone's character. Little things tell the whole story.Quote: AxelWolfonce an online casino gets your certification what keeps them from then doing something to change the way things work.
Do you check each and every game they have ? some casinos online have hundreds.
If they make a new game do you then check that game?
Quote: teliotThose who express a blanket opinion that every online casino cheats or that every piece of software is capable of cheating are speaking from ignorance. Those who argue conspiracy theories or secret methods of hiding bias are simply misguided. Such statements do disservice to the good guys, and I know many of those.
I agree with this comment, however, when deciding to gamble online; how does any player know for certain they didn’t choose one of whatever percentage of cheating software casinos are obviously still operating out there in cyber space?
How does a player know for certain a certified certificate wasn’t being issued for personal gain? Not everyone could turn down $150,000.00 dollars like you did.
People can read about these different issues and make their own decisions regardless what they decide to do. I made my decision years ago.
The nail in the coffin for me working for game fairness in the industry was the Spielo/GTech snafu, when the GRA demonstrated a staggering lack of oversight in the face of overwhelming evidence of malfeasance.Quote: 4ofaKindI agree with this comment, however, when deciding to gamble online; how does any player know for certain they didn’t choose one of whatever percentage of cheating software casinos are obviously still operating out there in cyber space?
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/54475-finsoft-spielo-g2-games-issue.html
Quote: teliotNot reported. Perhaps Charles will choose a different way of doing business than the choices I made. But for me, when a client hires me, I can't turn around and make it public when I find out they are creating rogue products. I just refused certification. I did this several times.
So, if a casino by mistake sent you copies of a cheat you uncovered while analyzing (similar to the poker scandal that was exposed) there are no regulations in place that you should have no choice but to report your findings to the regulator who issued them a license in their jurisdiction? How could a felony possibly be overlooked?
Who should I report it to? The GRA? There is a deeper problem here as well for me, which I will let you consider -- personal safety. I am a guy who makes a lot of not very nice people pretty angry. Look at the email chain when I turned down the $150k. The guy tracked me down to my city and complained that he only could find my P.O. Box, not a home address. He said he could send someone up from LA to meet me. That kind of rocked me, since it was clear he was asking for me to do something highly unethical.Quote: 4ofaKindSo, if a casino by mistake sent you copies of a cheat you uncovered while analyzing (similar to the poker scandal that was exposed) there are no regulations in place that you should have no choice but to report your findings to the regulator who issued them a license in their jurisdiction? How could a felony possibly be overlooked?
Quote: teliotThe nail in the coffin for me working for game fairness in the industry was the Spielo/GTech snafu, when the GRA demonstrated a staggering lack of oversight in the face of overwhelming evidence of malfeasance.
I'd send you a PM but you don't accept them.
I was asking a serious question. I thought you were a professional and could answer a few legitimate questions so I'm Not sure why you had to toss in a digg and open up that can of worms again.Quote: teliotOne thing I always watch out for is if the person who is running it has any indication of a flaw in their integrity, for example, advocating theft. After a while you get pretty good at reading someone's character. Little things tell the whole story.
You have yet to prove to me that streaming is illegal.
I find it funny how you consider online streaming a big bad deal. But advocating illegal online gambling is ok?
Life is too short to accept PMs.Quote: EvenBobI'd send you a PM but you don't accept them.
Quote: teliotLife is too short to accept PMs.
lol. No, life is too short to hear things you don't
want to hear.
If you have something to say, either say it publicly, write me a personal email, or call me.Quote: EvenBoblol. No, life is too short to hear things you don't want to hear.
No doubt the underworld of online gaming could be dangerous. As much as I would have liked to have seen a different course of action, I appreciate and respect your personal concerns. Easy to understand your exit from the online field.
Even though this issue made it to the public eye, nothing will be done. It will just eventually fade away like every other online issue has in the past.
It’s hard to conceive the concept of believing people need not to worry when choosing where to play online simply because there are legitimate online operators out there.
Online gambling is broken when at any given time it’s still possible players are being cheated.
"Is it just as easy to take my money out as it is to put it in?"
The answer can be found in the Terms of the site. And who read them 10 years ago?, and now?
http://wwwdotapheatdotnet.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/cfg_audit_rogue_03.jpg
I just can't get over the fact that this software provider presently supplies dozen(s) of online casinos worldwide with this rogue code installed. Finding one casino is bad enough, but this is not just about a dozen...this is dozens. (plural) Sounds like a serious well known provider to me.
Every game that exists has a MAIN FIX that could be turned on or off at will. Every game has a CHEATING FUNCTION. Not one or two, all of them. So much for card games being drawn random.
Quote from the owner, "you have to know this business, everyone does it". Well I guess that comment justified everything.
What a pathetic fn joke this whole thing is. Down the road I suspect if this business ever gets legit, this will be only one of many more horrible felony's exposed.
What's even more of a fn joke is that this is public knowledge and their still operating.
Quote: 4ofaKindIn New York I also recall a lottery employee rigging the bouncing ping pong balls by making selected numbered balls lighter then others gaining a large advantage on probability of being sucked out. Once again this was for personal gain.
Pennsylvania. Nick Perry, the host of the drawing, did it. I remember watching, it was so obvious; all the balls but the 6s and 4s seemed like they were drugged. The number pulled? 6-6-6.
I am not exactly sure of the number, so this is a guess. I found 14 right away with a Google search.Quote: 4ofaKindI just can't get over the fact that this software provider presently supplies dozen(s) of online casinos worldwide with this rogue code installed.
" Win if you must, lose if you must, but always CHEAT "
And NO, I am not just being sarcastic.
In such a world of what possible use is an audit certificate?Quote: Buzzard" Win if you must, lose if you must, but always CHEAT "
What audit certificate would read. There is an on/off toggle switch called Main Cheat. It happened to be off when the program was audited.
Who audits the auditor?Quote: FleaStiffIn such a world of what possible use is an audit certificate?
What audit certificate would read. There is an on/off toggle switch called Main Cheat. It happened to be off when the program was audited.
I for one had never heard of CFG. So ABC or LSMFT are the same in the public eye. GOOD LUCK, Charles.
Sad to say, you are gonna need it !
Quote: FleaStiffIn such a world of what possible use is an audit certificate?
What audit certificate would read. There is an on/off toggle switch called Main Cheat. It happened to be off when the program was audited.
Even knowing a reputable auditor like Eliot confirming the games he reviewed were honest, mean nothing. The argument of what software data was analyzed not being the same software that is being used live has been going on for years.
That was proven in this article when the owner wanted to send a different batch of data of the same game for another audit.
Regardless who’s operating any alleged honest online casino today; with no confirmed security precautions in place actively being monitored for the player’s safety, no online casino should be trusted.
Las Vegas, and Atlantic City, will show the rest of the world how this business could be secured and safe for the player.
Operating online casinos right out of billion dollar regulated land based casinos and getting caught cheating would take the whole industry down. If their cheating online then their cheating on land. Re-branding with a new name would not be an option like online casinos do over and again. The states access to tax money will be seriously protected by serious regulator enforcement.
Once the USA market opens worldwide I predict very few present online operators will still be around. I also think they realize it and are turning on the Cheat Switch more often grabbing all that's possible while it's still available. Of course this wouldn't be true for the present honest operators, if you happen to know for sure who they really are.
Quote: 4ofaKindThe states access to tax money will be seriously protected by serious regulator enforcement.
I'm trying to follow your logic. If the government is so "serious," why are we entrusting the gambling industry to potentially irresponsible private operators? Instead, the government should take total ownership and control. As it stands now, government operates the lottery, and I can't recall any cheating scandals. When I buy a lottery ticket from the government, I have complete confidence that I'm getting a fair gamble.
Clearly, with slot percentage at about 3% online industry wide and table games at about 2%, you have to think about how long it is going to take some of these outfits to get back their money and to realize a profit, and for some of the smaller players, you gotta think that there has to be cheating going on for them to realize a significant amount of profit.
And we've discovered cheating before on craps and the online world's response was negligible. Once I worked in understanding that cheat and the lack of response from the sportsbooks that were using the rogue software, I came to understand that online casinos were very easy to rig and were being rigged.
Of course, it's the lack of regulation and penalties that allow operators to pull this off.
I also believe he probably could enlighten us with many more similar detailed issues just based on his comment that he turned down issuing his seal after several other online casino audits.
I see a great deal of value in this information for the simple fact that he was willing to make this issue public and at least warn the public how they might be getting ripped off. Why he's not willing to mention the software could be for much more serious personal reasons that most wouldn't understand. He got out of the online end of this business on 01/01/14 and made this information available 01/02/14 which I also find ironic.
One of the biggest affiliated websites who promotes over a hundred online casinos will delete this type of information or ban members making certain negative information about this business is non-existent for the sake of keeping their pockets stuffed with players cash. You won't be reading about this issue at any of these sites.
These sites insist they know the good from evil online casinos, yet, they really don't know jack shit and could only confirm for fact their commissions. They will always tell a person to prove their cheating, when the real question should be for them to prove their not cheating.
It would cost someone millions of dollars to collect enough data to prove cheating. The only one's being exposed are the massive greedy one's who are cheating so bad it's that easy to confirm. How about the smart cheaters like the owner in this article stated it must be done subtle.
SO TRUE!Quote: 4ofaKindEven knowing a reputable auditor like Eliot confirming the games he reviewed were honest, mean nothing. The argument of what software data was analyzed not being the same software that is being used live has been going on for years.
That was proven in this article when the owner wanted to send a different batch of data of the same game for another audit.
Quote: 4ofaKindOnce the USA market opens worldwide I predict very few present online operators will still be around. I also think they realize it and are turning on the Cheat Switch more often grabbing all that's possible while it's still available. Of course this wouldn't be true for the present honest operators, if you happen to know for sure who they really are.
What about popular sites like Bovada? Do you think they will shut down? If so how long do you think it will take? I hope they don't shut down or enter the us market with Bovada. I have never had any problems with Bovada, They pay very fast. I have done well. If you want to play online I suggest using his link to do so.
United states online gambling is really going to make it suck for people like the Wizard, maybe not him so much because of his popularity, he may find work with U.S. online casinos. Most other Affiliates will suffer drastically. Bonuses and promotions may suffer as well. That remains to be seen.
I also think they realize it and are turning on the Cheat Switch more often grabbing all that's possible while it's still available.
Crap I didn't think of that. It sounds like something that could defiantly happen from some less popular online casinos. I doubt places like Bovada will do
anything like this.
4ofakind can I ask what you do? You seem to be knowledgeable concerning this issue
Quote: 4ofaKindthis information for the simple fact that he was willing to make this issue public and at least warn the public how they might be getting ripped off. Why he's not willing to mention the software could be for much more serious personal reasons that most wouldn't understand. He got out of the online end of this business on 01/01/14 and made this information available 01/02/14 which I also find ironic.
TBH, and with all due respect to Eliot, it really don't mean shit (to put it crudely) without names named. We already know cheating happens. Where is the value?
Caruso are you the same Caruso that was or is on that Online casino forum?Quote: CarusoTBH, and with all due respect to Eliot, it really don't mean shit (to put it crudely) without names named. We already know cheating happens. Where is the value?
Quote: AxelWolf4ofakind can I ask what you do? You seem to be knowledgeable concerning this issue
Nothing special anymore and never had anything to do with land or online casinos, except gamble at them. I'm 61 years old enjoying my semi retirement. Tired of traveling by car for hours and flying to good land based casinos. Wish I could gamble online knowing for certain I'm getting a fair game, but will have to wait for the USA to get going. At least their getting their feet wet. Hope I'm still alive when that day comes.
True. Audit malfeasance can be common and quite costly.Quote: AxelWolfWho audits the auditor?
I can't imagine any banking syndicate investing in a casino without a full audit of the software.
I doubt El Presedente, whose income will be greatly affected by a casino will be unconcerned. He might not mind if the casino cheated its players, but he might be a bit more concerned if it cheated him.
In these days of 'in-line' betting during events and the definition of "live" telecasting often differing by up to forty seconds, gambling syndicates could be hit big time by a live roulette wheel or a live football goal.
I don't know how a casino electronically imprisons its data so that only players in one table see a certain set of roulette results, but I'm sure a player would love to learn how to drag out the TIME device so as allow himself past posting rights.
Starting up an honest casino would be costly, surviving the attentions of honest players would be bad enough, surviving the attentions of sharpies would be costly and sharpies with rogue programs could be the most expensive of all to have to deal with.
Just look at that poker player who "fronted" for a known edge counter. You can't trust anyone! Even your own employees. Alot of those losses in the American South on past posted craps bets were courtesy of box men who picked up five grand in the men's room.
Now if you start a casino we assume you know statistics, but do you know programming well enough?
When that Vegas casino took that British tourist's "My Life's Savings Bet"... it was no accident that they used their oldest and most trusted croupier for it. He had been with them for over twenty years of honesty and thats why they trusted him. Today, most programmers aren't even twenty years old.
Quote: AxelWolfWho audits the auditor?
Arthur Andersen ;-(
http://www.hundredpercentgambling.com/newsArticle.php?id=80
I hadn't realised Eliot was leaving the biz.
+1000 This is exactly what I was thinking. And the very first thing that came to mind, it was just alk to convinant for me.who would be that stupid to leave an electronic trail.? For that amount of money you send a represnitive (Yourself ) to meet in person then you wine and dine him. While You come to a understanding and a hand shake. As far as im concerned you can't name someone if it never happened. If you are in the buisness of audits and testing ,not outing the Information to the public makes you less credible.Quote: onenickelmiracleMy problem with the article was because the company wasn't named, it remains possible to be fabricated to strengthen the regulator image. In the same vein everyone hates liars, the people who always say this to people I've always found to be the biggest liars themselves.
If in fact this is the provider; unless you were aware of this incident no one would know since it's different games involved, nor is the conversation with the programmer posted.
http://www.beatingbonuses.com/forums/showpost.php?p=89359&postcount=28
From ABC News:
"The first event of the Borgata Winter Poker Open was suspended for 24 hours by the New Jersey Division of Gaming Enforcement after suspicions about the games arose."
"The Division of Gaming Enforcement and New Jersey State Police are aware of a situation involving counterfeit chips,"
