Wizard
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Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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November 12th, 2010 at 12:22:09 PM permalink
Quote: dm

This post is BRILLIANT! I take back any former shots I have taken at you. In truth, I'm jealous that I didn't write it.



MKL has had a lot of outstanding posts, but that was not one of them. I'm not sure he realized the thread is about LIVE online blackjack. The cards are dealt from a shoe and are about the size of a DVD case. It would be pretty card to cheat in such a game. Even if they tried, the players could easily record it and play it back for signs of cheating. Any slip up in an attempt to cheat and it would be all over YouTube.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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November 12th, 2010 at 2:01:50 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

MKL has had a lot of outstanding posts, but that was not one of them. I'm not sure he realized the thread is about LIVE online blackjack. The cards are dealt from a shoe and are about the size of a DVD case. It would be pretty card to cheat in such a game. Even if they tried, the players could easily record it and play it back for signs of cheating. Any slip up in an attempt to cheat and it would be all over YouTube.



I probably WAS confused, as "live online gambling" seems like an utter oxymoron to me. How the heck would that work?
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
Wizard
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Wizard
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November 12th, 2010 at 2:29:34 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

How the heck would that work?



Somebody posted a couple videos of dealers shuffling earlier. You just click a table, then click your bets, and the dealer knows to deal you cards. The video is live, so you can see what is going on. The cards are also scanned as they are played, so your bets are automatically scored. The dealer can read what you type in a chat window, and you can hear what she says, but the quality of the audio is not good, so it can be hard having a conversation.

With the huge cards and a lag between you clicking what to do, and the dealer seeing it, the pace of the game is very slow. However, I kind of like it. Most of the dealers are quite pretty.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
rJz
rJz
Joined: Jul 21, 2010
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November 15th, 2010 at 8:41:45 AM permalink
I use 5dimes sports book so I decided to check out the live BJ over the weekend. Interesting concept, but I saw something that looke d a little odd. The dealer dealt the players first card, her down card, then the players second card. The players then played their hands. Then the dealer proceed to play hers. She didn't take her second card until after all the player hands had been played. I noticed this at all three tables i checked out. I'm not sure if this in anyway effects the outcome of the game, but it just seemed odd to me.
dm
dm
Joined: Apr 29, 2010
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November 15th, 2010 at 9:06:27 AM permalink
If they removed 1 ace from the deck how would you know?
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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November 15th, 2010 at 9:16:16 AM permalink
Quote: rJz

I use 5dimes sports book so I decided to check out the live BJ over the weekend. Interesting concept, but I saw something that looke d a little odd. The dealer dealt the players first card, her down card, then the players second card. The players then played their hands. Then the dealer proceed to play hers. She didn't take her second card until after all the player hands had been played. I noticed this at all three tables i checked out. I'm not sure if this in anyway effects the outcome of the game, but it just seemed odd to me.



That's the way they deal BJ at many places in Europe. Supposedly it keeps the dealer from accidentally exposing his hole card before the players play out their hands. It's an innocuous rule if, when the player doubles or splits against what turns out to be a blackjack, he only loses his original bet. It's an evil rule (akin to cheating IMHO) if ALL bets, even double downs and splits, are lost if the dealer turns out to get a blackjack. That also forces the player to be EXTREMELY conservative against an Ace or ten showing.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
Wizard
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Wizard
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November 15th, 2010 at 9:45:36 AM permalink
Quote: dm

If they removed 1 ace from the deck how would you know?



It would take a long time, but a player could track the frequency of each card seen. With a large enough sample size, a strong case could be made for the missing ace. Also, they replace the cards every 12 hours, and the dealer fans then out just like in a regular casino.

Regarding the hole card rule, the player only loses his original bet against a dealer blackjack. So the odds are the same as with the same rules in a hole card game.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Jufo81
Jufo81
Joined: May 23, 2010
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November 17th, 2010 at 10:11:51 AM permalink
As for the real-time Blackjack card counting software, there is this free app which seems to work pretty well:

http://www.bewersdorff-online.de/black-jack/

It tracks the house edge and also informs possible deviations from basic strategy as well.

I had a go with it at a widely used Live blackjack software. The rules are unfavourable though: 8 decks, cut card at 50% penetration, no DAS, split once, peek on ace, no peek on ten, no burn cards. After several hours of observing tables was able to locate 1% player edge and hit a 1000 bet on the table, but unfortunately I lost. I don't think that 1% edge is enough to compensate for the large variance of losing a large bet so IMO it is not worth it with these rules. 5Dimes BJ looks very promising though.
MATT1983
MATT1983
Joined: Nov 24, 2010
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November 24th, 2010 at 12:43:27 AM permalink
Here are a couple conversations I had with the casino. The first is with 5dimes, the 2nd was at the live table.

Please wait for a site operator to respond.
You are now chatting with 'Daniel'
Daniel: Hello. How may I assist you today?
Matt: Hello, I was wondering about the live blackjack
Matt: Do you have any policies about counting cards?
Daniel: About counting cards on the Live Dealer Blackjak?
Matt: yes
Daniel: *Blackjack
Matt: do you consider it cheating?
Daniel: Allow me to check about that....
Daniel: Just a moment please
Daniel: Well, we actually do not have, but since the Live Dealer Casino is a third party, with independent rules and policies, they might have policies about counting cards.
Daniel: You can access to a chat window with the Live Dealer directly, once you are signed in to the Live Dealer Casino
Matt: Do I need to create an account for that?
Daniel: Yes
Matt: ok thank you
Daniel: You're welcome
Daniel: ...and contact us back at any time..
Daniel: ..either for depositing information, or further concerns



Matt8: Hello
Matt8: Do you have a policy about card counting?
Casino Supervisor: Hello Matt8! what do you mean?
** David512 has joined the chat **
Matt8: Do you consider it cheating? keeping track of which cards have been played?
** David512 has left the chat **
** David512 has joined the chat **
Casino Supervisor: We dont have track of cards been played
** David512 has left the chat **
Matt8: So players can keep track if they want?
Casino Supervisor: if you want to Sir...
Matt8: Ok thank you!
Casino Supervisor: good memories better..

It looks like they haven't had a problem with card counting yet and haven't addressed it. It looks like you could get away with it. I am really tempted but ultimately decided to pass on it. I think the 1%-2% advantage of counting is probably smaller then the chance of them keeping your money if you win.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
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November 24th, 2010 at 11:35:07 AM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

I probably WAS confused, as "live online gambling" seems like an utter oxymoron to me. How the heck would that work?



At the G2E show last week there were several gaming machine vendors offering remote terminal betting on shared, televised events (like dice rolls or roulette spins). The random event is shared across all the bettors regardless of which terminal you're playing. You may have seen ShuffleMaster's Rapid Roulette already. See:

http://www.f2.co.kr/products/winningstar_live.php
http://www.interblock.eu/products/G4/live/
http://www.shufflemaster.com/02_eu_products/entertainment_products/electronic_table_games/rapid_roulette.asp

Going from live gambling with a casino terminal to live gambling with an internet terminal (e.g. your computer) is just a matter of network distance and protocols. The technology is basically the same.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563

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