BitCoin

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Posts: 22683

Joined: Oct 10, 2012

November 11th, 2024 at 11:23:30 PM permalink

LOL I just chalked up COIN as a big fat loss/lesson-learned situation.

Your average cost
$348.85

Coinbase
$345.85

+$53.67 (+19.82%)Today
+$21.44 (+6.61%)Overnight

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

AZDuffman

Threads: 243
Posts: 14473

Joined: Nov 2, 2009

November 12th, 2024 at 3:51:01 AM permalink

Yesterday will be hard to beat. Yesterday it went up by about 50% more than it cost in 2020 at the start of the virus crash.

All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others

AxelWolf

Threads: 170
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Joined: Oct 10, 2012

November 22nd, 2024 at 2:39:28 PM permalink

I saw that BTC was around $99,500.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

AxelWolf

Threads: 170
Posts: 22683

Joined: Oct 10, 2012

November 22nd, 2024 at 2:39:28 PM permalink

I saw that BTC was around $99,500.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

AZDuffman

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Joined: Nov 2, 2009

November 22nd, 2024 at 2:47:59 PM permalink

All day long it has been trying to break $100,000. Gets to $99500 then falls back. The weekend will be harder to do this but IIRC the Arab world has a different weekend so maybe buying action in Dubai moves it over overnight.

All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others

EvenBob

Threads: 442
Posts: 29631

Joined: Jul 18, 2010

November 22nd, 2024 at 4:28:45 PM permalink

Quote: AZDuffman
All day long it has been trying to break $100,000. Gets to $99500 then falls back. The weekend will be harder to do this but IIRC the Arab world has a different weekend so maybe buying action in Dubai moves it over overnight.
link to original post

All I'm seeing is lots of talk of big correction coming of it's going back down to 55,000 to $60,000 again. Before the end of the year probably before Christmas.

"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."

AxelWolf

Threads: 170
Posts: 22683

Joined: Oct 10, 2012

November 22nd, 2024 at 5:05:33 PM permalink

Quote: EvenBob
"This is the first way Bitcoin will suddenly be worthless.

Still waiting for it to be worthless. There's a member of this forum who just bought a house after cashing in his worthless crypto.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

Tanko

Tanko

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November 22nd, 2024 at 5:17:20 PM permalink

Bought the Bitcoin ETF IBIT earlier this year.

BTC YTD 133%
IBIT YTD 102%

AZDuffman

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November 22nd, 2024 at 5:25:26 PM permalink

Quote: EvenBob
Quote: AZDuffman
All day long it has been trying to break $100,000. Gets to $99500 then falls back. The weekend will be harder to do this but IIRC the Arab world has a different weekend so maybe buying action in Dubai moves it over overnight.
link to original post

All I'm seeing is lots of talk of big correction coming of it's going back down to 55,000 to $60,000 again. Before the end of the year probably before Christmas.
link to original post

Always negative talk out there. Back at $17000 members here said to get out.

All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others

vegas

vegas

Threads: 32
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November 22nd, 2024 at 7:30:12 PM permalink

A lot of people will take profit at 100,000 as this is a magic number. There are a large block of sells as people have put this number in as a time to take some profit. Bitcoin will indeed drop when it gets between 100,000 and 110,000 and go down maybe 20%. Then those that sold and also the usual rich people will buy back in at a good price causing bitcoin to reach new highs on its march higher. Right or wrong that is how I see it.

Also when bitcoin drops certain alt coins will go up quickly. If you have some alts don't sell now.

50-50-90 Rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there is a 90% probability you'll get it wrong

EvenBob

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November 22nd, 2024 at 10:33:18 PM permalink

Quote: vegas
A lot of people will take profit at 100,000 as this is a magic number. There are a large block of sells as people have put this number in as a time to take some profit. Bitcoin will indeed drop when it gets between 100,000 and 110,000 and go down maybe 20%. Then those that sold and also the usual rich people will buy back in at a good price causing bitcoin to reach new highs on its march higher. Right or wrong that is how I see it.

Also when bitcoin drops certain alt coins will go up quickly. If you have some alts don't sell now.
link to original post

Yes that's the way it works, buy and sell buy and sell, it's a big game and at the end of this game instead of there being a bucket of gold at the end of the rainbow it's always a bucket full of manure. And there is an end to this game because they're always is. These are just mink lined diamond studded Beanie Babies. Bottom line is they're still Beanie Babies..

"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."

AxelWolf

Threads: 170
Posts: 22683

Joined: Oct 10, 2012

November 23rd, 2024 at 12:41:56 AM permalink

Quote: EvenBob
Quote: vegas
A lot of people will take profit at 100,000 as this is a magic number. There are a large block of sells as people have put this number in as a time to take some profit. Bitcoin will indeed drop when it gets between 100,000 and 110,000 and go down maybe 20%. Then those that sold and also the usual rich people will buy back in at a good price causing bitcoin to reach new highs on its march higher. Right or wrong that is how I see it.

Also when bitcoin drops certain alt coins will go up quickly. If you have some alts don't sell now.
link to original post

Yes that's the way it works, buy and sell buy and sell, it's a big game and at the end of this game instead of there being a bucket of gold at the end of the rainbow it's always a bucket full of manure. And there is an end to this game because they're always is. These are just mink lined diamond studded Beanie Babies. Bottom line is they're still Beanie Babies..
link to original post

You can say that about anything and everything. We will all be dead, but BTC will still be here.

Thus far you have been wrong about BTC every day for over a decade.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

AZDuffman

Threads: 243
Posts: 14473

Joined: Nov 2, 2009

November 23rd, 2024 at 2:33:55 AM permalink

Microstrategy to issue $25 billion of convertible bonds with a 0% coupon to buy bitcoin. Fed and other central banks may start warehousing it on their books. Trump may appoint a "crypto tsar." This cycle is going to be interesting.

All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others

DRich

DRich

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Posts: 12788

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November 23rd, 2024 at 4:27:03 AM permalink

Quote: AxelWolf
You can say that about anything and everything. We will all be dead, but BTC will still be here.

Yes you can. Even every fiat currency has failed as will the US Dollar at some point.

At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.

EvenBob

Threads: 442
Posts: 29631

Joined: Jul 18, 2010

November 26th, 2024 at 11:18:23 AM permalink

Quote: EvenBob
All I'm seeing is lots of talk of big correction coming of it's going back down to 55,000 to $60,000 again. Before the end of the year probably before Christmas.
link to original post

And what did it lose yesterday, 10% of its value went from almost $100,000 down to 90,000. Now they're saying probably go as low as 75,000 before it stops in the next couple of weeks. But as usual you'll say I'm full of crap. One guy I read said investors are as nervous as a mouse trapped in a cat sanctuary. I can relate to that analogy.

"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."

AxelWolf

Threads: 170
Posts: 22683

Joined: Oct 10, 2012

November 26th, 2024 at 11:58:06 AM permalink

Quote: EvenBob
Quote: EvenBob
All I'm seeing is lots of talk of big correction coming of it's going back down to 55,000 to $60,000 again. Before the end of the year probably before Christmas.
link to original post

And what did it lose yesterday, 10% of its value went from almost $100,000 down to 90,000. Now they're saying probably go as low as 75,000 before it stops in the next couple of weeks. But as usual you'll say I'm full of crap. One guy I read said investors are as nervous as a mouse trapped in a cat sanctuary. I can relate to that analogy.
link to original post

Can you show me on what exchange it went down to 90K? I believe this is misinformation.

As far as I go, I don't think you were full of crap just relaying the word on the street. I too thought there was going to be a downturn, and I've been selling, I even sold some too low.

Just because someone is occasionally right about something doesn't make them not full of crap. You know what they say about blind squirrels who like playing with their nuts.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

vegas

vegas

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November 26th, 2024 at 12:42:32 PM permalink

Stocks go up, stocks go down but over time stocks go higher. Bitcoin goes up, bitcoin goes down but over time bitcoin goes higher.

Many people who bought crypto years ago would say if bitcoin ever gets near 100K I will take some profits. So when bitcoin got close to 100K many sells causes the price to drop in the short term. Many of those who sold will buy back in when price starts to go up.

This is just a healthy correction and a great time to buy. Bitcoin is not even close to topping out this cycle. Also crypto market should stay strong untill mid 2025 and then it will take its next break. Alt coins will do well in the same cycle.

50-50-90 Rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there is a 90% probability you'll get it wrong

Wizard
Administrator

Wizard

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November 26th, 2024 at 4:14:25 PM permalink

Quote: AZDuffman
Always negative talk out there. Back at $17000 members here said to get out.
link to original post

Including me. I still say it will the way of the Beanie Baby eventually, but who known when the bubble will pop. Ultimately, it will be a zero net sum investment in aggregate.

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)

EvenBob

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Joined: Jul 18, 2010

November 26th, 2024 at 6:06:05 PM permalink

Quote: Wizard
Quote: AZDuffman
Always negative talk out there. Back at $17000 members here said to get out.
link to original post

Including me. I still say it will the way of the Beanie Baby eventually, but who known when the bubble will pop. Ultimately, it will be a zero net sum investment in aggregate.
link to original post

Some people will make a lot of money and some people will lose a lot of money. This is not how currency is supposed to work, because this isn't currency. It's a collectible, it's a scheme, it's a flim-flam.

"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."

AxelWolf

Threads: 170
Posts: 22683

Joined: Oct 10, 2012

November 26th, 2024 at 6:19:09 PM permalink

Quote: EvenBob
Quote: Wizard
Quote: AZDuffman
Always negative talk out there. Back at $17000 members here said to get out.
link to original post

Including me. I still say it will the way of the Beanie Baby eventually, but who known when the bubble will pop. Ultimately, it will be a zero net sum investment in aggregate.
link to original post

Some people will make a lot of money and some people will lose a lot of money. This is not how currency is supposed to work, because this isn't currency. It's a collectible, it's a scheme, it's a flim-flam.
link to original post

It's actually a currency.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

AZDuffman

Threads: 243
Posts: 14473

Joined: Nov 2, 2009

November 26th, 2024 at 6:35:02 PM permalink

Quote: Wizard
Quote: AZDuffman
Always negative talk out there. Back at $17000 members here said to get out.
link to original post

Including me. I still say it will the way of the Beanie Baby eventually, but who known when the bubble will pop. Ultimately, it will be a zero net sum investment in aggregate.
link to original post

It's been around for 15 years. It is being placed in pension funds. The Fed might be putting it on their books. It has long since passed "fad" status. The Fed thing would be huge as it would take 5% of bitcoin off the marker and after that even more as other central banks and funds buy it. Then there is the thought that said institutions would not let it crash lest they take a huge loss. Hopefully it lets me retire long before that.

All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others

DRich

DRich

Threads: 89
Posts: 12788

Joined: Jul 6, 2012

November 27th, 2024 at 4:02:59 AM permalink

Quote: EvenBob
Quote: Wizard
Quote: AZDuffman
Always negative talk out there. Back at $17000 members here said to get out.
link to original post

Including me. I still say it will the way of the Beanie Baby eventually, but who known when the bubble will pop. Ultimately, it will be a zero net sum investment in aggregate.
link to original post

Some people will make a lot of money and some people will lose a lot of money. This is not how currency is supposed to work, because this isn't currency. It's a collectible, it's a scheme, it's a flim-flam.
link to original post

I agree it is not currency but I also don't think it is a flim flam as Bob states. Bitcoin is just a methodology that very few have adopted and has no intrinsic value. I really can't even think of anything else to compare it to.

At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.

billryan

Threads: 253
Posts: 17194

Joined: Nov 2, 2009

November 27th, 2024 at 5:06:49 AM permalink

Quote: DRich
Quote: EvenBob
Quote: Wizard
Quote: AZDuffman
Always negative talk out there. Back at $17000 members here said to get out.
link to original post

Including me. I still say it will the way of the Beanie Baby eventually, but who known when the bubble will pop. Ultimately, it will be a zero net sum investment in aggregate.
link to original post

Some people will make a lot of money and some people will lose a lot of money. This is not how currency is supposed to work, because this isn't currency. It's a collectible, it's a scheme, it's a flim-flam.
link to original post

I agree it is not currency but I also don't think it is a flim flam as Bob states. Bitcoin is just a methodology that very few have adopted and has no intrinsic value. I really can't even think of anything else to compare it to.
link to original post

Tulips.

The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened

DRich

DRich

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November 27th, 2024 at 7:23:49 AM permalink

Quote: billryan
Quote: DRich

I agree it is not currency but I also don't think it is a flim flam as Bob states. Bitcoin is just a methodology that very few have adopted and has no intrinsic value. I really can't even think of anything else to compare it to.
link to original post

Tulips.

If you are speaking of the flowers I don't understand how that is similar. People can grow as many as they want. People buy flowers for asethetic purposes so there is actually a market for flowers. Flowers also die where Bitcoin doesn't go away. The closest thing that I can think of is gold, but gold has intrinsic value for manufacturing which something like Bitcoin does not.

At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.

billryan

Threads: 253
Posts: 17194

Joined: Nov 2, 2009

November 27th, 2024 at 7:40:03 AM permalink

Quote: DRich
Quote: billryan
Quote: DRich

I agree it is not currency but I also don't think it is a flim flam as Bob states. Bitcoin is just a methodology that very few have adopted and has no intrinsic value. I really can't even think of anything else to compare it to.
link to original post

Tulips.

If you are speaking of the flowers I don't understand how that is similar. People can grow as many as they want. People buy flowers for asethetic purposes so there is actually a market for flowers. Flowers also die where Bitcoin doesn't go away. The closest thing that I can think of is gold, but gold has intrinsic value for manufacturing which something like Bitcoin does not.
link to original post

Look up Tulipmania, or the Great Dutch Tulip Bubble.
At the height of Tulipmania, a single Tulip was selling for six times the average workingman yearly wages. Tulips were considered to be extremely rare with a very bright future.

The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened

billryan

Threads: 253
Posts: 17194

Joined: Nov 2, 2009

November 27th, 2024 at 7:55:06 AM permalink

After WW!, Florida land prices went absolutely bonkers. Real estate values sometimes tripled overnight.
In 1923, a retired gentleman invested his life savings in a swamp near Miami His family went to court and had him declared legally insane for pouring his life savings into such a crappy investment. When the land sold for a half million dollars two years later, the man sued and won his release from the institution his family had placed him in. By the end of 1925, Florida swamp land was selling for more than NYC prime real estate. A hurricane destroyed the overseas railroad, severely limiting access to South Florida. Real estate crashed, and thousands of property owners walked away from their land.

The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened

EvenBob

Threads: 442
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November 27th, 2024 at 9:10:26 AM permalink

Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: EvenBob
Quote: Wizard
Quote: AZDuffman
Always negative talk out there. Back at $17000 members here said to get out.
link to original post

Including me. I still say it will the way of the Beanie Baby eventually, but who known when the bubble will pop. Ultimately, it will be a zero net sum investment in aggregate.
link to original post

Some people will make a lot of money and some people will lose a lot of money. This is not how currency is supposed to work, because this isn't currency. It's a collectible, it's a scheme, it's a flim-flam.
link to original post
It's actually a currency.
link to original post

So was salt at one time, that's where the word salary comes from. What's your point.

"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."

darkoz

darkoz

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November 27th, 2024 at 9:21:42 AM permalink

It's kind of funny seeing people who believe that something is worthless tie themselves into knots trying to validate how they are correct while so many people are profiting and they sit on the sidelines.

For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

billryan

Threads: 253
Posts: 17194

Joined: Nov 2, 2009

November 27th, 2024 at 9:23:03 AM permalink

Quote: EvenBob
Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: EvenBob
Quote: Wizard
Quote: AZDuffman
Always negative talk out there. Back at $17000 members here said to get out.
link to original post

Including me. I still say it will the way of the Beanie Baby eventually, but who known when the bubble will pop. Ultimately, it will be a zero net sum investment in aggregate.
link to original post

Some people will make a lot of money and some people will lose a lot of money. This is not how currency is supposed to work, because this isn't currency. It's a collectible, it's a scheme, it's a flim-flam.
link to original post
It's actually a currency.
link to original post

So was salt at one time, that's where the word salary comes from. What's your point.
link to original post

That is not the point, but Roman soldiers were not paid in salt. Roman soldiers in the field were issued a salt allowance. Salt was one of the reasons Roman legions could march all day and fight longer than their foes. Salt in Rome was a commodity, not a currency.
The myth of salary originating from this is fairly modern, popping up around the time of the American Civil War.

The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened

Archvaldor1

Archvaldor1

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Posts: 60

Joined: Oct 17, 2024

November 27th, 2024 at 10:01:43 AM permalink

Quote: billryan

Look up Tulipmania, or the Great Dutch Tulip Bubble.
At the height of Tulipmania, a single Tulip was selling for six times the average workingman yearly wages. Tulips were considered to be extremely rare with a very bright future.
link to original post

The tulip bubble was more sophisticated than pure irrationality. Tulip collectors and traders were essentially speculating on early biotechnology - the creation of new varieties through breeding and the virus-induced "breaking" patterns. They recognized that certain traits could be propagated and valued accordingly. While they didn't understand genetics, their trading behavior showed an intuitive grasp that biological characteristics could be controlled and monetized. The religious debates around "playing God" with flowers actually highlight how this was seen as a powerful new form of human intervention in nature.

The discovery that the tulip breaking virus could alter flower patterns helped establish that diseases could cause inheritable changes - important for later understanding of mutations
The detailed documentation of tulip breeding and varieties contributed to early theories about trait inheritance
The propagation techniques developed for rare tulips advanced understanding of plant reproduction and cloning

These observations contributed to the foundations of genetics and plant pathology.

AxelWolf

Threads: 170
Posts: 22683

Joined: Oct 10, 2012

November 27th, 2024 at 10:23:22 AM permalink

Quote: billryan
Quote: DRich
Quote: billryan
Quote: DRich

I agree it is not currency but I also don't think it is a flim flam as Bob states. Bitcoin is just a methodology that very few have adopted and has no intrinsic value. I really can't even think of anything else to compare it to.
link to original post

Tulips.

If you are speaking of the flowers I don't understand how that is similar. People can grow as many as they want. People buy flowers for asethetic purposes so there is actually a market for flowers. Flowers also die where Bitcoin doesn't go away. The closest thing that I can think of is gold, but gold has intrinsic value for manufacturing which something like Bitcoin does not.
link to original post

Look up Tulipmania, or the Great Dutch Tulip Bubble.
At the height of Tulipmania, a single Tulip was selling for six times the average workingman yearly wages. Tulips were considered to be extremely rare with a very bright future.
link to original post

I think they were tulip bulbs and not tulips.

Other than perhaps a status symbol and rarity I don't think tulip bulbs solved any real problems or did anything much beyond that. Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies do solve problems and can be very useful.

The Tulip craze went on for a few years in an age where they didn't have modern communications like we do now, education was poor probably only about 33% of people could even read. People now have all the information they need at their fingertips.

We can argue all day long if Bitcoin is a currency or commodity I think it's a hybrid, something new and something that's here to stay.

Do you remember when they thought the internet was just a fad in the 90's? Research, Clifford Stoll internet worst prediction ever.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

AxelWolf

Threads: 170
Posts: 22683

Joined: Oct 10, 2012

November 27th, 2024 at 10:38:29 AM permalink

Quote: EvenBob
Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: EvenBob
Quote: Wizard
Quote: AZDuffman
Always negative talk out there. Back at $17000 members here said to get out.
link to original post

Including me. I still say it will the way of the Beanie Baby eventually, but who known when the bubble will pop. Ultimately, it will be a zero net sum investment in aggregate.
link to original post

Some people will make a lot of money and some people will lose a lot of money. This is not how currency is supposed to work, because this isn't currency. It's a collectible, it's a scheme, it's a flim-flam.
link to original post
It's actually a currency.
link to original post

So was salt at one time, that's where the word salary comes from. What's your point.
link to original post

My point is that you keep saying that it's not a currency, and yet it is. It's officially a legal tender in El Salvador. Accept it, don't accept it, claim whatever you want about El Salvadorand speculate on Bitcoin, but every time you say it's not a currency... you're clearly absolutely wrong.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

AxelWolf

Threads: 170
Posts: 22683

Joined: Oct 10, 2012

November 27th, 2024 at 10:41:21 AM permalink

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

AxelWolf

Threads: 170
Posts: 22683

Joined: Oct 10, 2012

November 27th, 2024 at 10:52:12 AM permalink

Quote: EvenBob
Quote: Wizard
Quote: AZDuffman
Always negative talk out there. Back at $17000 members here said to get out.
link to original post

Including me. I still say it will the way of the Beanie Baby eventually, but who known when the bubble will pop. Ultimately, it will be a zero net sum investment in aggregate.
link to original post

Some people will make a lot of money and some people will lose a lot of money. This is not how currency is supposed to work, because this isn't currency. It's a collectible, it's a scheme, it's a flim-flam.
link to original post

Just imagine if you would have used Bitcoin as a tool for your online play way back when I told you to and you were flirting with the idea. I remember you bragging about how you were glad you didn't get into Bitcoin because it went down a little.

Assuming you could actually win via online gambling, you lost out big time on all the profits you would have been making on online casinos like Bovada and since thousands more, and you lost out on the huge run-up since. Even now, assuming you're still playing every day online you've drastically limited yourself to only a few places.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

EvenBob

Threads: 442
Posts: 29631

Joined: Jul 18, 2010

November 27th, 2024 at 11:11:46 AM permalink

Quote: AxelWolf

We can argue all day long if Bitcoin is a currency or commodity I think it's a hybrid, something new and something that's here to stay.
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Nope, no argument involved.

"Virtual currencies, such as Bitcoin, have been determined to be commodities under the Commodity Exchange Act"

"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."

EvenBob

Threads: 442
Posts: 29631

Joined: Jul 18, 2010

November 27th, 2024 at 11:15:08 AM permalink

Quote: billryan
Quote: EvenBob
Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: EvenBob
Quote: Wizard
Quote: AZDuffman
Always negative talk out there. Back at $17000 members here said to get out.
link to original post

Including me. I still say it will the way of the Beanie Baby eventually, but who known when the bubble will pop. Ultimately, it will be a zero net sum investment in aggregate.
link to original post

Some people will make a lot of money and some people will lose a lot of money. This is not how currency is supposed to work, because this isn't currency. It's a collectible, it's a scheme, it's a flim-flam.
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It's actually a currency.
link to original post

So was salt at one time, that's where the word salary comes from. What's your point.
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That is not the point, but Roman soldiers were not paid in salt. Roman soldiers in the field were issued a salt allowance. Salt was one of the reasons Roman legions could march all day and fight longer than their foes. Salt in Rome was a commodity, not a currency.
The myth of salary originating from this is fairly modern, popping up around the time of the American Civil War.
link to original post

Nice try.

'From the seventh to fourteenth century AD, salt was used as currency and even traded weight-for-weight for gold in western Africa. Ancient Roman soldiers were paid a salarium, or salary, meaning money used to buy salt. A modern English phrase describes competent soldiers and workers as being �worth their salt�.

https://manoa.hawaii.edu/exploringourfluidearth/chemical/chemistry-and-seawater/ionic-compounds/compare-contrast-connect-role-salt-human-history#:~:text=From%20the%20seventh%20to%20fourteenth,being%20%E2%80%9Cworth%20their%20salt%E2%80%9D.

"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."

EvenBob

Threads: 442
Posts: 29631

Joined: Jul 18, 2010

November 27th, 2024 at 11:25:25 AM permalink

Quote: AxelWolf

link to original post

Mark Twain refused to invest in the telephone because he thought it was going to be a fad and disappear in a couple years. People's opinions are generally worthless. The truth about Bitcoin is it has no real value or use, so it's actually worthless. As time will demonstrate.

"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."

OnceDear

OnceDear

Threads: 64
Posts: 7543

Joined: Jun 1, 2014

November 27th, 2024 at 11:30:13 AM permalink

Quote: DRich
Quote: billryan
Quote: DRich

I agree it is not currency but I also don't think it is a flim flam as Bob states. Bitcoin is just a methodology that very few have adopted and has no intrinsic value. I really can't even think of anything else to compare it to.
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Tulips.

If you are speaking of the flowers I don't understand how that is similar. People can grow as many as they want. People buy flowers for asethetic purposes so there is actually a market for flowers. Flowers also die where Bitcoin doesn't go away. The closest thing that I can think of is gold, but gold has intrinsic value for manufacturing which something like Bitcoin does not.
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He's referring to TulipMania: An economic Bubble in the 17th century.

Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.

billryan

Threads: 253
Posts: 17194

Joined: Nov 2, 2009

November 27th, 2024 at 12:59:00 PM permalink

Quote: EvenBob
Quote: billryan
Quote: EvenBob
Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: EvenBob
Quote: Wizard
Quote: AZDuffman
Always negative talk out there. Back at $17000 members here said to get out.
link to original post

Including me. I still say it will the way of the Beanie Baby eventually, but who known when the bubble will pop. Ultimately, it will be a zero net sum investment in aggregate.
link to original post

Some people will make a lot of money and some people will lose a lot of money. This is not how currency is supposed to work, because this isn't currency. It's a collectible, it's a scheme, it's a flim-flam.
link to original post
It's actually a currency.
link to original post

So was salt at one time, that's where the word salary comes from. What's your point.
link to original post

That is not the point, but Roman soldiers were not paid in salt. Roman soldiers in the field were issued a salt allowance. Salt was one of the reasons Roman legions could march all day and fight longer than their foes. Salt in Rome was a commodity, not a currency.
The myth of salary originating from this is fairly modern, popping up around the time of the American Civil War.
link to original post

Nice try.

'From the seventh to fourteenth century AD, salt was used as currency and even traded weight-for-weight for gold in western Africa. Ancient Roman soldiers were paid a salarium, or salary, meaning money used to buy salt. A modern English phrase describes competent soldiers and workers as being �worth their salt�.

https://manoa.hawaii.edu/exploringourfluidearth/chemical/chemistry-and-seawater/ionic-compounds/compare-contrast-connect-role-salt-human-history#:~:text=From%20the%20seventh%20to%20fourteenth,being%20%E2%80%9Cworth%20their%20salt%E2%80%9D.
link to original post

Most people know that the Roman Empire didn't exist from the seventh through the 14th Century, and I'll challenge you to find a single Roman document that states Roman Soldiers were paid in salt. You won't because every Roman soldier, from the highest to the lowest, was issued a daily salt allowance. It's like saying American GIs were paid in C-Rations because they got them every day.

The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened

AxelWolf

Threads: 170
Posts: 22683

Joined: Oct 10, 2012

November 27th, 2024 at 1:17:58 PM permalink

Quote: EvenBob
Quote: AxelWolf

link to original post

Mark Twain refused to invest in the telephone because he thought it was going to be a fad and disappear in a couple years. People's opinions are generally worthless. The truth about Bitcoin is it has no real value or use, so it's actually worthless. As time will demonstrate.
link to original post

Interesting, I use it almost everyday. I can use it to buy things, send funds, and trade for cash. It certainly does have real value.

You have consistently for many years demonstrated that you have been wrong about Bitcoin.

Oh, and by the way, your crashing prediction the other day while claiming it went down to 90k is now over 96k.

Now please tell us what exchange you saw Bitcoin at 90,000? Inquiring minds want to know because if that was the case there was a missed arbitrage situation. Perhaps you were just exaggerating to make your case look better?

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

AxelWolf

Threads: 170
Posts: 22683

Joined: Oct 10, 2012

November 27th, 2024 at 1:20:34 PM permalink

Quote: billryan
Quote: DRich
Quote: EvenBob
Quote: Wizard
Quote: AZDuffman
Always negative talk out there. Back at $17000 members here said to get out.
link to original post

Including me. I still say it will the way of the Beanie Baby eventually, but who known when the bubble will pop. Ultimately, it will be a zero net sum investment in aggregate.
link to original post

Some people will make a lot of money and some people will lose a lot of money. This is not how currency is supposed to work, because this isn't currency. It's a collectible, it's a scheme, it's a flim-flam.
link to original post

I agree it is not currency but I also don't think it is a flim flam as Bob states. Bitcoin is just a methodology that very few have adopted and has no intrinsic value. I really can't even think of anything else to compare it to.
link to original post

Tulips.
link to original post

Bill I swear that you said that you changed your mind and that you were wrong about Bitcoin or something along those lines, I believe you even had a buy price of what you thought it was worth and sell price.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

billryan

Threads: 253
Posts: 17194

Joined: Nov 2, 2009

November 27th, 2024 at 1:33:28 PM permalink

Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: EvenBob
Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: EvenBob
Quote: Wizard
Quote: AZDuffman
Always negative talk out there. Back at $17000 members here said to get out.
link to original post

Including me. I still say it will the way of the Beanie Baby eventually, but who known when the bubble will pop. Ultimately, it will be a zero net sum investment in aggregate.
link to original post

Some people will make a lot of money and some people will lose a lot of money. This is not how currency is supposed to work, because this isn't currency. It's a collectible, it's a scheme, it's a flim-flam.
link to original post
It's actually a currency.
link to original post

So was salt at one time, that's where the word salary comes from. What's your point.
link to original post
My point is that you keep saying that it's not a currency, and yet it is. It's officially a legal tender in El Salvador. Accept it, don't accept it, claim whatever you want about El Salvadorand speculate on Bitcoin, but every time you say it's not a currency... you're clearly absolutely wrong.
link to original post

Legal tender and currency are not really interchangeable, although cryptocurrency blurs the lines between them. I still think Bitcoin's long-term value is close to zero, but I've been spectacularly wrong so far.

The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened

AutomaticMonkey

AutomaticMonkey

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Posts: 173

Joined: Sep 30, 2024

November 27th, 2024 at 1:55:40 PM permalink

"Legal tender" just means that it legally settles debts when offered as payment for debts within the jurisdiction declaring it legal tender. So if I trash someone's car and offer him dollars in compensation, he can't demand gold; the court will set a value of the damages in dollars and I can pay in dollars.

Bitcoin people see both sides of that. Some want the prestige and validation that comes from being legal tender anywhere. Others don't want to be on the "lead standard," where government force is ultimately what gives value to the money, and recognize that when a court can define the value of a debt in Bitcoin, they also control the value of Bitcoin. When two different things are legal tender in the same jurisdiction it's even worse. The judge can say "You owe the plaintiff ten thousand dollars, or one Bitcoin" he has now arbitrarily defined the value of a Bitcoin as $10K.

I'm in the latter camp and would rather see Bitcoin float, as a non-inflatable fiat currency, with its value equal to the value bitcoiners place on it. As long as we value it, it will have value.

AxelWolf

Threads: 170
Posts: 22683

Joined: Oct 10, 2012

November 27th, 2024 at 4:55:27 PM permalink

Quote: billryan
Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: EvenBob
Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: EvenBob
Quote: Wizard
Quote: AZDuffman
Always negative talk out there. Back at $17000 members here said to get out.
link to original post

Including me. I still say it will the way of the Beanie Baby eventually, but who known when the bubble will pop. Ultimately, it will be a zero net sum investment in aggregate.
link to original post

Some people will make a lot of money and some people will lose a lot of money. This is not how currency is supposed to work, because this isn't currency. It's a collectible, it's a scheme, it's a flim-flam.
link to original post
It's actually a currency.
link to original post

So was salt at one time, that's where the word salary comes from. What's your point.
link to original post
My point is that you keep saying that it's not a currency, and yet it is. It's officially a legal tender in El Salvador. Accept it, don't accept it, claim whatever you want about El Salvadorand speculate on Bitcoin, but every time you say it's not a currency... you're clearly absolutely wrong.
link to original post

Legal tender and currency are not really interchangeable, although cryptocurrency blurs the lines between them. I still think Bitcoin's long-term value is close to zero, but I've been spectacularly wrong so far.
link to original post

If you thought it was with zero then why did you put a value on it?

So basically we are saying that Bitcoin is a commodity, a legal form of tender, and a digital currency.

That sounds like a trifecta, who wouldn't want to invest in that?

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

billryan

Threads: 253
Posts: 17194

Joined: Nov 2, 2009

November 27th, 2024 at 5:41:15 PM permalink

Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: billryan
Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: EvenBob
Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: EvenBob
Quote: Wizard
Quote: AZDuffman
Always negative talk out there. Back at $17000 members here said to get out.
link to original post

Including me. I still say it will the way of the Beanie Baby eventually, but who known when the bubble will pop. Ultimately, it will be a zero net sum investment in aggregate.
link to original post

Some people will make a lot of money and some people will lose a lot of money. This is not how currency is supposed to work, because this isn't currency. It's a collectible, it's a scheme, it's a flim-flam.
link to original post
It's actually a currency.
link to original post

So was salt at one time, that's where the word salary comes from. What's your point.
link to original post
My point is that you keep saying that it's not a currency, and yet it is. It's officially a legal tender in El Salvador. Accept it, don't accept it, claim whatever you want about El Salvadorand speculate on Bitcoin, but every time you say it's not a currency... you're clearly absolutely wrong.
link to original post

Legal tender and currency are not really interchangeable, although cryptocurrency blurs the lines between them. I still think Bitcoin's long-term value is close to zero, but I've been spectacularly wrong so far.
link to original post
If you thought it was with zero then why did you put a value on it?

So basically we are saying that Bitcoin is a commodity, a legal form of tender, and a digital currency.

That sounds like a trifecta, who wouldn't want to invest in that?
link to original post

The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened

billryan

Threads: 253
Posts: 17194

Joined: Nov 2, 2009

November 27th, 2024 at 5:54:05 PM permalink

Quote: billryan
Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: billryan
Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: EvenBob
Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: EvenBob
Quote: Wizard
Quote: AZDuffman
Always negative talk out there. Back at $17000 members here said to get out.
link to original post

Including me. I still say it will the way of the Beanie Baby eventually, but who known when the bubble will pop. Ultimately, it will be a zero net sum investment in aggregate.
link to original post

Some people will make a lot of money and some people will lose a lot of money. This is not how currency is supposed to work, because this isn't currency. It's a collectible, it's a scheme, it's a flim-flam.
link to original post
It's actually a currency.
link to original post

So was salt at one time, that's where the word salary comes from. What's your point.
link to original post
My point is that you keep saying that it's not a currency, and yet it is. It's officially a legal tender in El Salvador. Accept it, don't accept it, claim whatever you want about El Salvadorand speculate on Bitcoin, but every time you say it's not a currency... you're clearly absolutely wrong.
link to original post

Legal tender and currency are not really interchangeable, although cryptocurrency blurs the lines between them. I still think Bitcoin's long-term value is close to zero, but I've been spectacularly wrong so far.
link to original post
If you thought it was with zero then why did you put a value on it?

So basically we are saying that Bitcoin is a commodity, a legal form of tender, and a digital currency.

That sounds like a trifecta, who wouldn't want to invest in that?
link to original post

link to original post

When I buy something to resell, it doesn't matter what I think it is worth. What matters is what I can buy it for and then sell it. About a year ago, I said I saw an opportunity if Bitcoin got under 16K, or perhaps it was 15 K. Had it gotten to my buy point, I'd have purchased some and unloaded it at around 25 K. Until it gets to the 15-18K level, it might as well not exist as I have no interest in it.

The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened

Archvaldor1

Archvaldor1

Threads: 0
Posts: 60

Joined: Oct 17, 2024

November 27th, 2024 at 6:41:31 PM permalink

Quote: AxelWolf

Other than perhaps a status symbol and rarity I don't think tulip bulbs solved any real problems or did anything much beyond that. Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies do solve problems and can be very useful.

The Tulip craze went on for a few years in an age where they didn't have modern communications like we do now, education was poor probably only about 33% of people could even read. People now have all the information they need at their fingertips.

As I explained in a post above yours the tulips in question were part of an exciting new science that gave birth to modern biotech.

The modern awareness of tulip bulb mania comes from a specific book which had an agenda, one that was overly keen on characterizing people as stupid.

I find this similar to the way people talk about bitcoin. There's almost zero awareness of the utility of a peer to peer system of financial transaction with no intermediary in western nations. People like to talk about scams and techbros and volatility none of which has much relevance to the viability or otherwise of the actual tech.

AxelWolf

Threads: 170
Posts: 22683

Joined: Oct 10, 2012

November 27th, 2024 at 7:01:21 PM permalink

Quote: billryan
Quote: billryan
Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: billryan
Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: EvenBob
Quote: AxelWolf
Quote: EvenBob
Quote: Wizard
Quote: AZDuffman
Always negative talk out there. Back at $17000 members here said to get out.
link to original post

Including me. I still say it will the way of the Beanie Baby eventually, but who known when the bubble will pop. Ultimately, it will be a zero net sum investment in aggregate.
link to original post

Some people will make a lot of money and some people will lose a lot of money. This is not how currency is supposed to work, because this isn't currency. It's a collectible, it's a scheme, it's a flim-flam.
link to original post
It's actually a currency.
link to original post

So was salt at one time, that's where the word salary comes from. What's your point.
link to original post
My point is that you keep saying that it's not a currency, and yet it is. It's officially a legal tender in El Salvador. Accept it, don't accept it, claim whatever you want about El Salvadorand speculate on Bitcoin, but every time you say it's not a currency... you're clearly absolutely wrong.
link to original post

Legal tender and currency are not really interchangeable, although cryptocurrency blurs the lines between them. I still think Bitcoin's long-term value is close to zero, but I've been spectacularly wrong so far.
link to original post
If you thought it was with zero then why did you put a value on it?

So basically we are saying that Bitcoin is a commodity, a legal form of tender, and a digital currency.

That sounds like a trifecta, who wouldn't want to invest in that?
link to original post

link to original post

When I buy something to resell, it doesn't matter what I think it is worth. What matters is what I can buy it for and then sell it. About a year ago, I said I saw an opportunity if Bitcoin got under 16K, or perhaps it was 15 K. Had it gotten to my buy point, I'd have purchased some and unloaded it at around 25 K. Until it gets to the 15-18K level, it might as well not exist as I have no interest in it.
link to original post

But if you think something's worth zero there's no reason to think that it would ever go up. If something is worth zero it shouldn't go up and you shouldn't buy it, especially if it's at 15,000.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

billryan