BitCoin
Quote: AlanMendelson
You are describing a zero sum game but cryptocurrency is not a zero sum game.
With crypto everyone can lose everything.
link to original post
Can you explain this as it doesn't make sense to me?
Quote: DRichCan you explain this as it doesn't make sense to me?
link to original post
I second that. Please explain any scenario where that is possible.
With an expected loss of about 21%, you’d be much better off putting your hard-earned cash on the Fire Bet 🔥.Quote: PokerGrinderI bought more just now at 19,012.89
Fire sale 🔥 🔥🔥
link to original post
Or even the lottery
Quote: WizardBitcoin down another $1,000 today.
Question for the BTC faithful -- At what price will your faith start to crack?
link to original post
I have seen at least 2 80% or so drops. The week all the virus stuff hit BTC was down IIRC to a little below $5,000 from a previous high of about $19,000. Now you are at $19,000 from a high of about $67,000. Next halving is in about 700 days, which has historically meant a huge run. You should be dollar cost averaging in now to cash out then. IOW, i am hanging on. Dropping $40 per month on SHIB until I have 100MM of them, I figure that is a better chance and buy than lottery tickets.
Quote:BTC may have been a good start, but I think a new generation of cryptocurrency will come along that will cost under a penny per transaction, take under a second, and be based on something real. When that happens, BTC will be a relic that we will laugh at the way we laugh at the Beanie Baby craze of the 90's.
link to original post
What are you meaning there? The USD in your wallet is not based on anything real. Well, you can get gold for it as soon as the temporary closure of the gold window ends. 51 years next month since it was closed so the "temporary" closure has to be near over.
No currency is based on anything more than the government saying it is good. The difference is the fed cannot print up BTC to keep the game going.
What the **** are you talking about? Don't even try to equate crypto fiat currencies with national fiat currencies.Quote: DRichSo is the U.S. Dollar. No fiat currency has ever not eventually failed.
link to original post
National currencies function within a robust financial system and national treasuries, and under the auspices of central banks that can utilize open market operations to provide stability. Crypto currencies have absolutely no stabilizing tools at their disposal. None. Nil. Nada. In the post Bretton Woods era the world has had nothing but fiat national currency and during that time not one national currency has even come close to failure,..the closest call might have been the Venezuelan Bolivar during 2016, but even that wasn't very close.
Quote: AZDuffmanThe USD in your wallet is not based on anything real.
link to original post
The USD is the official currency of the United States. As long as the country means something, so does it's currency.
Quote: UP84In the post Bretton Woods era the world has had nothing but fiat national currency and during that time not one national currency has even come close to failure,..the closest call might have been the Venezuelan Bolivar during 2016, but even that wasn't very close.
link to original post
When it takes 11 zeroes to buy an egg and the currency comes with an expiration date printed on it, I consider it "failed".
As I recall, the paper was worth more before it went into the printing press.
I understand that these are subjective criteria for failure, and you're welcome to your own.
Yup, forgot that one. I'd consider that a failure. But I stand by my point, which was in response to the statement that "No fiat currency has eventually not failed."Quote: DieterQuote: UP84In the post Bretton Woods era the world has had nothing but fiat national currency and during that time not one national currency has even come close to failure,..the closest call might have been the Venezuelan Bolivar during 2016, but even that wasn't very close.
link to original post
When it takes 11 zeroes to buy an egg and the currency comes with an expiration date printed on it, I consider it "failed".
As I recall, the paper was worth more before it went into the printing press.
I understand that these are subjective criteria for failure, and you're welcome to your own.
link to original post
Quote: UP84Yup, forgot that one. I'd consider that a failure. But I stand by my point, which was in response to the statement that "No fiat currency has eventually not failed."Quote: DieterQuote: UP84In the post Bretton Woods era the world has had nothing but fiat national currency and during that time not one national currency has even come close to failure,..the closest call might have been the Venezuelan Bolivar during 2016, but even that wasn't very close.
link to original post
When it takes 11 zeroes to buy an egg and the currency comes with an expiration date printed on it, I consider it "failed".
As I recall, the paper was worth more before it went into the printing press.
I understand that these are subjective criteria for failure, and you're welcome to your own.
link to original post
link to original post
You are forgetting German Marks after reparations for WWI
No. I said post Bretton Woods.Quote: darkozQuote: UP84Yup, forgot that one. I'd consider that a failure. But I stand by my point, which was in response to the statement that "No fiat currency has eventually not failed."Quote: DieterQuote: UP84In the post Bretton Woods era the world has had nothing but fiat national currency and during that time not one national currency has even come close to failure,..the closest call might have been the Venezuelan Bolivar during 2016, but even that wasn't very close.
link to original post
When it takes 11 zeroes to buy an egg and the currency comes with an expiration date printed on it, I consider it "failed".
As I recall, the paper was worth more before it went into the printing press.
I understand that these are subjective criteria for failure, and you're welcome to your own.
link to original post
link to original post
You are forgetting German Marks after reparations for WWI
link to original post
Quote: UP84No. I said post Bretton Woods.Quote: darkozQuote: UP84Yup, forgot that one. I'd consider that a failure. But I stand by my point, which was in response to the statement that "No fiat currency has eventually not failed."Quote: DieterQuote: UP84In the post Bretton Woods era the world has had nothing but fiat national currency and during that time not one national currency has even come close to failure,..the closest call might have been the Venezuelan Bolivar during 2016, but even that wasn't very close.
link to original post
When it takes 11 zeroes to buy an egg and the currency comes with an expiration date printed on it, I consider it "failed".
As I recall, the paper was worth more before it went into the printing press.
I understand that these are subjective criteria for failure, and you're welcome to your own.
link to original post
link to original post
You are forgetting German Marks after reparations for WWI
link to original post
link to original post
I see.
But that makes your designation hardly much to talk about. 80 years of history as opposed to most all of history.
Bitcoin has had a decade.
There are still people alive pre-bretton!
Now when you can say no Fiat currency has failed in recorded history, then you got yourself some whopper argument.
Quote: darkozQuote: UP84Yup, forgot that one. I'd consider that a failure. But I stand by my point, which was in response to the statement that "No fiat currency has eventually not failed."Quote: DieterQuote: UP84In the post Bretton Woods era the world has had nothing but fiat national currency and during that time not one national currency has even come close to failure,..the closest call might have been the Venezuelan Bolivar during 2016, but even that wasn't very close.
link to original post
When it takes 11 zeroes to buy an egg and the currency comes with an expiration date printed on it, I consider it "failed".
As I recall, the paper was worth more before it went into the printing press.
I understand that these are subjective criteria for failure, and you're welcome to your own.
link to original post
link to original post
You are forgetting German Marks after reparations for WWI
link to original post
I think that may have been before 1973.
Funny you posted that…As bitcoin has depreciated 37% in just the last month, it’s comparable to the Zimbabwean dollar. Actually it’s far worse in terms of total wealth lostQuote: Dieter
When it takes 11 zeroes to buy an egg and the currency comes with an expiration date printed on it, I consider it "failed".
As I recall, the paper was worth more before it went into the printing press.
I understand that these are subjective criteria for failure, and you're welcome to your own.
link to original post
No currency is perfect. And definitely not bitcoin
Quote: Ace2Funny you posted that…As bitcoin has depreciated 37% in just the last month, it’s comparable to the Zimbabwean dollar. Actually it’s far worse in terms of total wealth lostQuote: Dieter
When it takes 11 zeroes to buy an egg and the currency comes with an expiration date printed on it, I consider it "failed".
As I recall, the paper was worth more before it went into the printing press.
I understand that these are subjective criteria for failure, and you're welcome to your own.
link to original post
link to original post
Quote: Wikipedia: Hyperinflation in ZimbabweZimbabwe's peak month of inflation is estimated at 79.6 billion percent month-on-month
link
I think there may still be some faint glimmer of hope for Bitcoin.
Well, if you're going by historical track records, then 100% of commodity-backed national currencies have failed...because they no longer exist.Quote: darkozBut that makes your designation hardly much to talk about. 80 years of history as opposed to most all of history.
Bitcoin has had a decade.
The Zimbabwe failure doesn't really support the idea that ALL fiat national currencies are not sustainable (the original quote) because it was one example out of a boatload, and of course it's replacement was another fiat currency.
Quote: Ace2Funny you posted that…As bitcoin has depreciated 37% in just the last month, it’s comparable to the Zimbabwean dollar. Actually it’s far worse in terms of total wealth lostQuote: Dieter
When it takes 11 zeroes to buy an egg and the currency comes with an expiration date printed on it, I consider it "failed".
As I recall, the paper was worth more before it went into the printing press.
I understand that these are subjective criteria for failure, and you're welcome to your own.
link to original post
No currency is perfect. And definitely not bitcoin
link to original post
How has the US dollar been any different? It's just viewed through an inflation lens.
I have a few pennies from the 1940's. My mom told me a penny in 1940(she lived in NYC) brought her a bag of M&M's.
Today it takes 125 pennies(regardless from 1940 or today) in NYC to purchase a bag of M&M's.
Two years ago a gallon of gas was about $2. Now it's $5 for the same gallon.
How has wealth not been lost for the stable US dollar when the same dollars you had in your mattress from three years ago buys you less than half at the pump?
So, there. : )
Quote: darkozHow has the US dollar been any different? It's just viewed through an inflation lens.
I have a few pennies from the 1940's. My mom told me a penny in 1940(she lived in NYC) brought her a bag of M&M's.
Today it takes 125 pennies(regardless from 1940 or today) in NYC to purchase a bag of M&M's.
Two years ago a gallon of gas was about $2. Now it's $5 for the same gallon.
How has wealth not been lost for the stable US dollar when the same dollars you had in your mattress from three years ago buys you less than half at the pump?
link to original post
M&Ms and gasoline 😆
The difference is that Bitcoin has depreciated about 200 times faster than the USD. It took the dollar about 15 years* to lose 37% of its value while bitcoin did it in one month.
To my knowledge, a couple/few percent inflation per year is ideal and expected in a healthy economy. On an annualized basis, bitcoin is showing an effective inflation rate of about 26,000 %. !!
One thing is indisputable: bitcoin is definitely not a stable place to store wealth, not even for the very short term.
*extrapolated from real vs nominal GDP over last 16 years
Quote: Ace2Quote: darkozHow has the US dollar been any different? It's just viewed through an inflation lens.
I have a few pennies from the 1940's. My mom told me a penny in 1940(she lived in NYC) brought her a bag of M&M's.
Today it takes 125 pennies(regardless from 1940 or today) in NYC to purchase a bag of M&M's.
Two years ago a gallon of gas was about $2. Now it's $5 for the same gallon.
How has wealth not been lost for the stable US dollar when the same dollars you had in your mattress from three years ago buys you less than half at the pump?
link to original post
M&Ms and gasoline 😆
The difference is that Bitcoin has depreciated about 200 times faster than the USD. It took the dollar about 15 years* to lose 37% of its value while bitcoin did it in one month.
To my knowledge, a couple/few percent inflation per year is ideal and expected in a healthy economy. On an annualized basis, bitcoin is showing an effective inflation rate of about 26,000 %. !!
One thing is indisputable: bitcoin is definitely not a stable place to store wealth, not even for the very short term.
*extrapolated from real vs nominal GDP over last 16 years
link to original post
The modern USD was launched in 1914. Since then it has lost 96-98% of its value. Is that a success to you?
$1 USD when bitcoin was launched is worth 25% less now. How does BTC value today compare to 2009?
USD has been "reset" a few times. First when FDR stole all the gold from private citizens. Again in 1964 when silver was taken out of coins. Then again in 1971 when the gold window was temporarily closed. Has BTC been reset?
Quote: Ace2Quote: darkozHow has the US dollar been any different? It's just viewed through an inflation lens.
I have a few pennies from the 1940's. My mom told me a penny in 1940(she lived in NYC) brought her a bag of M&M's.
Today it takes 125 pennies(regardless from 1940 or today) in NYC to purchase a bag of M&M's.
Two years ago a gallon of gas was about $2. Now it's $5 for the same gallon.
How has wealth not been lost for the stable US dollar when the same dollars you had in your mattress from three years ago buys you less than half at the pump?
link to original post
M&Ms and gasoline 😆
The difference is that Bitcoin has depreciated about 200 times faster than the USD. It took the dollar about 15 years* to lose 37% of its value while bitcoin did it in one month.
To my knowledge, a couple/few percent inflation per year is ideal and expected in a healthy economy. On an annualized basis, bitcoin is showing an effective inflation rate of about 26,000 %. !!
One thing is indisputable: bitcoin is definitely not a stable place to store wealth, not even for the very short term.
*extrapolated from real vs nominal GDP over last 16 years
link to original post
AZDuffman has a good point.
Assuming you had access to a time machine and knew where everything would be today,
Going back to the year 2009, which would you invest in and hold until 2022? $1000 US or 1000 bitcoins?
Cash is a place to store wealth on a temporary basis. You don’t have a time machine and you don’t ever want to risk losing 37% in one month holding cash. Ever
Quote: GundyAny comparison between USD and bitcoin is meaningless to me. Who the hell "invests" in the USD? Not me.
link to original post
Look at it this way, If you lived in Japan in the 1970s within 20 years of so your dollars lost 2/3 of their value vs the Yen. Yes, Japanese invested in dollars.
Quote: Ace2No matter where you lived, your bitcoin lost more than 2/3rds of its value in the last eight months
link to original post
Yet it is up nearly 400% since the virus hit in 2020.
BTC is a volatile investment but grows over the long term. If you cannot handle the swings do not invest.
BTC tends to go up about 400% peak to next peak. That means next peak should be in the $260,000 range in the mid 2020s.
That happens and we are definitely talking Cordoba.
More like Enron.Quote: AZDuffmanBTC tends to go up about 400% peak to next peak. That means next peak should be in the $260,000 range in the mid 2020s.
That happens and we are definitely talking Cordoba.
I’m not familiar with that saying. Is it a reference to the Arab conquest of Spain ?Quote: AZDuffman[
That happens and we are definitely talking Cordoba.
link to original post
Quote: Ace2I’m not familiar with that saying. Is it a reference to the Arab conquest of Spain ?Quote: AZDuffman[
That happens and we are definitely talking Cordoba.
link to original post
link to original post
it is a quote from "WKRP In Cincinnati" when Herb calculates his possible commission. For those on here too young to remember the 1970s, the Cordoba was one of the cars that lower-level successful people aspired to. Cheaper than a Cadillac or Lincoln but still filled with all the comforts and rode like it was on a cloud.
Coinbase is not a large broker. It only holds $250 billion in customer fiat and crypto currencies, and it lost $430 million in the first quarter.
The broker Charles Schwab has $7.6 trillion under management and saw $1.4 billion in net income in the first quarter.
'Coinbase earnings were bad. Worse still, the crypto exchange is now warning that bankruptcy could wipe out user funds'
'Coinbase Lets Users Know What a Bankruptcy Could Mean for Their Crypto'
Going to ZERO.
Who's gonna be the bagholder?
Quote: GundyTen years from now, nobody will admit to buying this crap.
You don't think the people that bought at $1 and sold at $60,000 will admit it?
Quote: TankoI withdrew my cash from Coinbase last week. As a precaution, I set up a checking account in a bank different from my regular bank and had them transfer the funds to that account. Withdrawal took a few days and was not a simple process.
Coinbase is not a large broker. It only holds $250 billion in customer fiat and crypto currencies, and it lost $430 million in the first quarter.
The broker Charles Schwab has $7.6 trillion under management and saw $1.4 billion in net income in the first quarter.
'Coinbase earnings were bad. Worse still, the crypto exchange is now warning that bankruptcy could wipe out user funds'
'Coinbase Lets Users Know What a Bankruptcy Could Mean for Their Crypto'
link to original post
Your post makes it sound like bankruptcy is imminent.
The article says they were forced to put the warnings in due to new government regulations.
Coinbase itself says they aren't expecting a bankruptcy.
Also customers can use personal wallets instead of coinbase wallets while still using coinbase. It's just a bit more complicated but the trade-off is security if coinbase did go bankrupt which still seems slim to none.
BTW, the FDIC only insures regular bank customers up to $250,000 which is fine for regular guys but telling a multi-millionaire he only gets back $250,000 is equivalent to saying you lost it all, pretty much.
Quote: DRichQuote: GundyTen years from now, nobody will admit to buying this crap.
You don't think the people that bought at $1 and sold at $60,000 will admit it?
link to original post
People who brought at $500 and sold at $1000 will admit it. They will even rue they sold too early.
I know because my daughter does that. She sold and was happy at her profit in 2016. Now she just mourns at what her life could have been like.
Quote: AZDuffman
link to original post
I miss the part where me mentions Corinthian leather.
Quote: WizardQuote: AZDuffman
link to original post
I miss the part where me mentions Corinthian leather.
link to original post
It is hard to explain to the younger generation that this was the kind of car a cool cat would own back then. They have low practicality for your luggage or passengers but none of that mattered back then. This was a "personal" car.
Nomad acknowledged the exploit in a tweet late Monday.
"We are aware of the incident involving the Nomad token bridge," the startup said. "We are currently investigating and will provide updates when we have them."
It's not entirely clear how the attack was orchestrated, or if Nomad plans to reimburse users who lost tokens in the attack. The company, which markets itself as a "secure cross-chain messaging" service, wasn't immediately available for comment when contacted by CNBC.
Blockchain security experts described the exploit as a "free-for-all." Anyone with knowledge of the exploit and how it worked could seize on the flaw and withdraw an amount of tokens from Nomad — sort of like a cash machine spewing out money at the tap of a button.“
more than $200 million of crypto was recently hacked - stolen - from more than 10,000 users
.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/08/03/solana-nomad-hacks-security-questions/
.
Quote:According to 7news in Australia, a Melbourne woman received the ^10,000,000 instead of $100 in May 2021, and several months later, Crypto.com discovered its error.
“Extraordinarily, the Plaintiffs allegedly did not realize this significant error until some seven months later, in late December 2021,” the Victorian Supreme Court judge James Elliott wrote in a court ruling.
The woman, Thevamanogari Manivel, is being sued by the crypto giant for its money back. The only problem: some of it has already been spent.
Manivel used $1.35 million of the funds to purchase a five-bedroom home for her sister Thilagavathy Gangadory in Craigieburn, Australia.
also, she has one hellava name as well as her sister.
18,987.80USD
Quote: GundyQuote: rxwineHow low can she go
18,987.80USD
link to original post
Zero, or close to it.
link to original post
Last tine I heard that it went to $67,000.
I still can't figure out how and what the average everyday person will be using it for, or why they would want to invest now that the hype is over.
I remember people claiming was supposed to hedge against inflation, but that doesn't seem to be the case so far.
The Strategic Petroleum Reserve which has lost nearly a third of it's holdings may be refilled if oil drops below $80/barrel. Saudis vow to reduce production if oil goes below $90.
RT - FXHedge & ZH: RICHEST AMERICANS LOSE $93 BILLION AFTER INFLATION-FUELED STOCK ROUT; BEZOS NET WORTH PLUNGED $9.8B, MUSK LOST $8.4B: BBG
Plus when price crashes call it a Bitcoin winter, sure to go up again in the spring. And latest con, rename all the chumps who lost money. Call them tourists. Damn I love a good con. And 13 year old technology being praised as something new.
CME GBP FUTURES HALTED #currencycrash
