BitCoin
April 4th, 2013 at 5:01:57 PM
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So I bought a couple of bitcoins today at the ridiculously high prices after all the news.
Just curious if anybody else has any stories of bitcoins.
Especially anybody who enjoyed the run-up on bitcoin values in the last few weeks. Curious who has had four figures or more in bitcoins that got a little boost lately from all the craziness.
Just curious if anybody else has any stories of bitcoins.
Especially anybody who enjoyed the run-up on bitcoin values in the last few weeks. Curious who has had four figures or more in bitcoins that got a little boost lately from all the craziness.
aahigh.com
April 4th, 2013 at 5:16:30 PM
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When Bitcoins were 70 cents I had $4000 to invest specutively and I was gonna buy silver or bitcoin, flipped a coin and decided to buy silver instead of btc. I meant to buy at least $1000 of btc but never got around to it. If I had bought that 4000 in btc it would be worth 3/4 of a million bucks right now. I get so sick thinking about it that I could puke.
Oh and I lost 40% on the silver.
Oh and I lost 40% on the silver.
Vote for Nobody 2020!
April 4th, 2013 at 5:18:37 PM
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I know how you feel. I have more in Silver than in BitCoin and seeing that run up lately is crazy.
aahigh.com
April 4th, 2013 at 5:22:26 PM
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I think I might actually buy some lite coin specutively. There will be 4x as many lite coins as bit coins but they are only about 5 bucks, plus payments clear a lot quicker with lite coins as they use smaller blocks.
Vote for Nobody 2020!
April 4th, 2013 at 5:24:30 PM
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Quote: AhighI know how you feel. I have more in Silver than in BitCoin and seeing that run up lately is crazy.
It looks a lot like a bubble but I honestly do not believe that it is. I think it is just starting to gain its footing.
Vote for Nobody 2020!
April 4th, 2013 at 6:15:40 PM
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Bitcoin thread at Diversity already.
Exchange is currently under a DDoS attack and price fell off to 120 from 140.
Exchange is currently under a DDoS attack and price fell off to 120 from 140.
April 4th, 2013 at 7:10:32 PM
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This is some weird stuff and I am uncomfortable with it. The value seems to tied to a permanently fixed supply. I think its a bubble. If investing short term, why not. Long term, no way, I'll keep mine in gold. How permanent is that fixed supply?
When somebody doesn't believe me, I could care less. Some get totally bent out of shape when not believed. Weird. I believe very little on all forums
April 4th, 2013 at 8:00:16 PM
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Well, I bought the coins for "research" just to learn more about how it works but putting some equity in the spot so I could stir it around and see what happens.
I got in a 134.99 earlier this morning for 2.06 units.
To me:
* It's simply the first viable platform for a currency outside of a fiat currency.
* It's the only electronic cash that is possible to use without paying any fees or overhead to anyone
* It's gives you speculative power to go in and out without worry for overhead and fees related to trading (or excessive trading if you like to gamble by trading)
* It's open and the author continues to be anonymous and the code is open and available
* It's decentralized
To everyone else:
* It's easily "hacked" -- (wrong really at least depending on how you define "hacked")
* It isn't really a "safe" place to put your money (So far at least it has been from my perspective!)
* It's too complicated to get coins (I had to dig a little bit, but I figured out how to get set up for $6.00 taking cash to a bank where I don't even have an account!)
* It can't possibly work long term
What I predict is that soon, more and more people will start telling the real story about bitcoin and as more people realize that technology is a better way to have a currency than a government or even gold, all money will go towards technology (maybe even ala Revelations in the Bible?)
Anyway, I may start putting more of my short-term free cash into BitCoin just for shits and giggles because it's sort of fun to do.
Right now, it seems like the media wants to write it off as sort of "hackable" .. but the prices will be more stable as the network gets more tolerant of attacks.
I'm not worried about the hacks. I think those that are just aren't that smart about the long term viability of bitcoin.
There are some interest analysis on the system here that are worth a read on the technical side of things. So much of the mass media has done a crappy job of explaining how it all works.
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2013/04/03/1425292/the-problem-with-bitcoin/?
I got in a 134.99 earlier this morning for 2.06 units.
To me:
* It's simply the first viable platform for a currency outside of a fiat currency.
* It's the only electronic cash that is possible to use without paying any fees or overhead to anyone
* It's gives you speculative power to go in and out without worry for overhead and fees related to trading (or excessive trading if you like to gamble by trading)
* It's open and the author continues to be anonymous and the code is open and available
* It's decentralized
To everyone else:
* It's easily "hacked" -- (wrong really at least depending on how you define "hacked")
* It isn't really a "safe" place to put your money (So far at least it has been from my perspective!)
* It's too complicated to get coins (I had to dig a little bit, but I figured out how to get set up for $6.00 taking cash to a bank where I don't even have an account!)
* It can't possibly work long term
What I predict is that soon, more and more people will start telling the real story about bitcoin and as more people realize that technology is a better way to have a currency than a government or even gold, all money will go towards technology (maybe even ala Revelations in the Bible?)
Anyway, I may start putting more of my short-term free cash into BitCoin just for shits and giggles because it's sort of fun to do.
Right now, it seems like the media wants to write it off as sort of "hackable" .. but the prices will be more stable as the network gets more tolerant of attacks.
I'm not worried about the hacks. I think those that are just aren't that smart about the long term viability of bitcoin.
There are some interest analysis on the system here that are worth a read on the technical side of things. So much of the mass media has done a crappy job of explaining how it all works.
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2013/04/03/1425292/the-problem-with-bitcoin/?
aahigh.com
April 4th, 2013 at 9:02:56 PM
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It's an interesting idea, the concept of a universal virtual currency. It essentially negates the impact of foreign exchange....sorta. Just like how the Euro unified currencies across so many countries in Europe, the bitcoin is an alternative mechanism that can unify countries across the globe.
But here's the problem. There's so real monetary institution that is backing the exchange of bitcoins. At least with the Euro, you have the ECB. And while it may be easier to counterfeit a dollar bill than it is to hack a computer code, the reality is some smart ass will be able to write a program that gives him a billion bitcoins (which is more than actually exists).
There was some chatter about bitcoins being pegged to a gold standard, but this is just as restrictive. I'm surprised at how quickly bitcoins are gaining adoption. However, the run-up is supply and demand driven. There's a lot of demand that will be released over time until you hit the max number of bit coins allowed.
Great idea at 70 cents. Is it really smart at $104 to a bitcoin now? No idea. You're trading a non-physical currency. There is only so high it can go. Won't be infinite. Remember there has to be some parity relationship internationally. Imagine the country of Bitcoin. A cheeseburger will cost x bitcoins which has a certain equivalent in dollars, pounds, yen, euro etc.
But here's the problem. There's so real monetary institution that is backing the exchange of bitcoins. At least with the Euro, you have the ECB. And while it may be easier to counterfeit a dollar bill than it is to hack a computer code, the reality is some smart ass will be able to write a program that gives him a billion bitcoins (which is more than actually exists).
There was some chatter about bitcoins being pegged to a gold standard, but this is just as restrictive. I'm surprised at how quickly bitcoins are gaining adoption. However, the run-up is supply and demand driven. There's a lot of demand that will be released over time until you hit the max number of bit coins allowed.
Great idea at 70 cents. Is it really smart at $104 to a bitcoin now? No idea. You're trading a non-physical currency. There is only so high it can go. Won't be infinite. Remember there has to be some parity relationship internationally. Imagine the country of Bitcoin. A cheeseburger will cost x bitcoins which has a certain equivalent in dollars, pounds, yen, euro etc.
April 4th, 2013 at 9:26:47 PM
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Bitcoins are like collector Elvis plates. There's a limited
number made and they go up in value till they hit a
plateau. They're only worth the price because the
demand sets the price. If collectors lose interest,
prices plummet.
Just think Beanie Babies. Remember those?
number made and they go up in value till they hit a
plateau. They're only worth the price because the
demand sets the price. If collectors lose interest,
prices plummet.
Just think Beanie Babies. Remember those?
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
April 4th, 2013 at 9:54:23 PM
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this will crash... its a matter of when. Good luck if you are diving into it.
April 4th, 2013 at 9:55:47 PM
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Oy. And here I was thinking of putting some money into Bitcoin just a few weeks ago, when they were about $25. Dammit. No, I'm going to wait for the bubble to burst.
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
April 4th, 2013 at 10:43:07 PM
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reminds me of a tech stock I owned shares in..... one day it jumps $43 a share... made no sense to me the trading price so I told all the people I knew that had jumped on board with me that I was cashing out and suggested that do that to...... stock was in the $145 range with NO EARNINGS to speak of.
As far as I know all took my advice like my sister from NJ who for the next 10 or so trading days called me up around dinner time to let me know how the stock did that day ( over those 10 days it went up another $100 a share) to the $240 range..... not bad considering we started buying at $12 or so
A few days later no call from sister....so I check and well well look what happened ....dropped in the range of $100 in a day..... over the next while (months it dropped more and more) to the point they had a reverse stock split of 10 for 1 or something to bring the stock up out of a penny stock status
RISK TO REWARDS ?
oh the stock CERTICOM on the Toronto stock exchange year 1999 or so
Another that I was in on was BRE-X research that one if you want..... I got off before the one mining expert in the company fell ( or was pushed) from the helicopter TRUE STORY in mid flight
Theres danger out there everywhere folks be very very careful
As far as I know all took my advice like my sister from NJ who for the next 10 or so trading days called me up around dinner time to let me know how the stock did that day ( over those 10 days it went up another $100 a share) to the $240 range..... not bad considering we started buying at $12 or so
A few days later no call from sister....so I check and well well look what happened ....dropped in the range of $100 in a day..... over the next while (months it dropped more and more) to the point they had a reverse stock split of 10 for 1 or something to bring the stock up out of a penny stock status
RISK TO REWARDS ?
oh the stock CERTICOM on the Toronto stock exchange year 1999 or so
Another that I was in on was BRE-X research that one if you want..... I got off before the one mining expert in the company fell ( or was pushed) from the helicopter TRUE STORY in mid flight
Theres danger out there everywhere folks be very very careful
April 4th, 2013 at 10:53:14 PM
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Quote: nezbitthis will crash... its a matter of when. Good luck if you are diving into it.
I'm not that much into the inner workings of Bitcoins, but I think it will eventually crash for the simple reason that the global rate of transactions is limited by the peer-to-peer infrastructure.
I mean, each and every transaction of any fraction of any bitcoin has to be synchronized from Timbuktu to Tajikistan to be "canon". What's a typical bandwidth that could be permanently reserved for any node available ? Even generous 100Mbit/sec would be 25k global transactions per second (each transaction is 500 byte in size) - which is ridiculous low to be of any serious use.
April 5th, 2013 at 3:46:03 AM
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Quote: MangoJI'm not that much into the inner workings of Bitcoins, but I think it will eventually crash for the simple reason that the global rate of transactions is limited by the peer-to-peer infrastructure.
I mean, each and every transaction of any fraction of any bitcoin has to be synchronized from Timbuktu to Tajikistan to be "canon". What's a typical bandwidth that could be permanently reserved for any node available ? Even generous 100Mbit/sec would be 25k global transactions per second (each transaction is 500 byte in size) - which is ridiculous low to be of any serious use.
This link provides some data on transaction rates. I'm not sure I agree, but curious if you still feel the same way after looking at this data:
http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/
aahigh.com
April 5th, 2013 at 3:52:01 AM
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Quote: nezbitthis will crash... its a matter of when. Good luck if you are diving into it.
Put your money where your mouth is! If you're sure it's going to crash, you probably also have a way to leverage your knowledge into profit!
Keep us updated on your riches as you realize your gains.
Or was that just a guess stated as a fact?
aahigh.com
April 5th, 2013 at 5:02:03 AM
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Quote: articleIn this regard, people at Business Insider who compare the bitcoin trade and its current price spike with the bubble around Beanie Babies in the early century come across as dangerously shortsighted and ignorant.
http://falkvinge.net/2013/04/03/why-bitcoin-is-poised-to-change-society-much-more-than-the-internet-did
aahigh.com
April 5th, 2013 at 5:11:47 AM
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too much talk about the Bitcoin crash which means the the thing probably has legs for awhile.Quote: Ahighhttp://falkvinge.net/2013/04/03/why-bitcoin-is-poised-to-change-society-much-more-than-the-internet-did
Each day is better than the next
April 5th, 2013 at 6:51:52 AM
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Quote: terapinedThis is some weird stuff and I am uncomfortable with it. The value seems to tied to a permanently fixed supply. I think its a bubble. If investing short term, why not. Long term, no way, I'll keep mine in gold. How permanent is that fixed supply?
A fixed supply of an infinitely divisible virtual currency means there is essentially no fixed supply. If they go to $10,000 per bit coin people will buy and sell them in increments of 1%per bitcoin.
Walmart has split 11 times since it's IPO in 1970. So a share bought during the IPO is now 2^11=2048 shares. Bitcoins don't have to be split as they are simply divisible.
Almost everyone knows that money is a shared delusion. Bitcoins were the result of a graduate school course in the essential characteristics of "money".
April 5th, 2013 at 7:05:15 AM
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Who or what guarantees my bitcoin account/stash/balance?
April 5th, 2013 at 7:19:32 AM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonWho or what guarantees my bitcoin account/stash/balance?
The same thing that guarantees you will wake up tomorrow: nothing.
The goal of bitcoin was to circumvent the controls on all other forms of money that make it suck:
* Transaction fees
* Quantitative easing and/or government controls
* Centralized control by a singular business entity of unit
The currency is only enabled by use of network protocols over the internet, and the price is defined by how much people are willing to trade other stuff for it.
Unlike other forms of digital currency, the value in units of bitcoins is defined by the state and configurations of on/off bits.
Digital wallets store these bits and the value, if unencrypted, can be copied and used by ANYBODY who gets control of that data.
If the data is lost, lost so is the value associated with that data until/unless another unit is created.
And the point above about fractional values is relevant. This is not an integral currency system. The unit is only important to establish the value as a ratio of other currencies.
Most people are only familiar with rounding up/down to the nearest integer unit for a currency.
I'm not sure what the smallest allowable fraction is on a bitcoin value, but that would define the integer unit of the currency if it in fact exists.
aahigh.com
April 5th, 2013 at 7:47:56 AM
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Why invest in bitcoins when you can invest in tulip bulbs?
Wisdom is the quality that keeps you out of situations where you would otherwise need it
April 5th, 2013 at 7:56:17 AM
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Most definitely a bubble. See, tulips, internet stocks circa 1999, Real Estate circa 2006-7, and a million other examples if you care to do the research. They will be a laughing stock sooner or later...probably sooner.
April 5th, 2013 at 8:03:40 AM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonWho or what guarantees my bitcoin account/stash/balance?
The wikipedia article explains it fairly well. Bitcoins are not guaranteed by anyone. The peer to peer network is responsible for preventing counterfeits. The money supply cannot be increased or decreased by a government. Although a bitcoin is divisible to an arbitrary degree, it will be the public that makes the value of a single bitcoin increase large enough relative to other currencies, that an increasing order of division is necessary.
You cannot pay taxes with bitcoins. This ability to accept currency for taxes is one of the principal means that a governments give value to their currency.
The Fed controls money supply using the dual mandate of maximum employment and stable prices . Bitcoins have no such mandate and their value is likely to fluctuate wildly. Or they may become a significant way to "hold value".
The money supply of a country consists of currency (banknotes and coins) and bank money (the balance held in checking accounts and savings accounts). Bank money, which consists only of records (mostly computerized in modern banking), forms by far the largest part of the money supply in developed nations.
April 5th, 2013 at 8:24:40 AM
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Quote: vendman1Most definitely a bubble. See, tulips, internet stocks circa 1999, Real Estate circa 2006-7, and a million other examples if you care to do the research. They will be a laughing stock sooner or later...probably sooner.
Very interesting. There is a club forming with similar opinions. I have two BitCoins invested into the notion that you're wrong, but I'm okay with losing that bet.
Right now the total amount of bitcoins available is worth less than two billion dollars.
I think the total value (market cap) of US currency is 825 billion.
http://visualeconomics.creditloan.com/the-value-of-united-states-currency-in-circulation
So BitCoin is still just a quarter of a percent the size of US currency in terms of share of stuff.
If BitCoins were worth about $50,000 each, parity with the US dollar would be about equal today.
So if you take your total net worth, and divide by $50,000 and buy that many BitCoins, you would be getting insurance over BitCoins overtaking the US dollar in the future.
Sounds cheap to me. I'm willing to lose it all to buy a couple of coins. Best longshot bet I ever took, and I only need a couple more coins.
aahigh.com
April 5th, 2013 at 10:12:59 AM
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Quote: AhighI think the total value (market cap) of US currency is 825 billion.
Currency in circulation is $1177.75 Billions of dollars at this time. The figure of $825 billion is a reasonable estimate of the value of the $100 banknotes circulating.
The $50 banknote has relatively small circulation and can be largely discounted. The banknotes worth $20 or less and coins are primarily used to make the basic parts of the economy operate. The $100 banknotes primary purpose is store of value, and roughly 75% of them circulate overseas. The roles are not hard and fast, as some people have boxes of $20 bills stashed away (including drug dealers) and some people use $100 banknotes for purchases (especially used cars or similar items).
While bitcoins can be used to make purchases, their primary role as money is "store of value".
Naturally people are going to scream "bubble" and "tulip bulb" as bitcoins have gone up 1000% since the beginning of 2013. Just because the "emperor has no clothes" doesn't mean that you can't profit from them. The currency may stay with us for a century although it will probably soar and crash once in a while.
One thing is very clear. There is a strong desire for a "currency" that combines the ease of electronic transfers with the anonymity of banknotes and without concerns about government interference in the money supply.
April 5th, 2013 at 10:28:14 AM
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I've learned a lot quickly, and I don't have the fear of BitCoin that most have had since Sept 2012. I will buy more.
aahigh.com
April 5th, 2013 at 10:39:58 AM
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I still think a government central bank can easily outdo the bitcoin. Instead of 10 million bitcoins, Switzerland can issue 10 million SWISSCOINS. The government can use their vast gold supply to initially guarantee the value of the electronic currency. They will initially be issued at one SWISSCOIN=1 Swiss Franc, and the government will gaurantee that they be exchangeable for the equivalent value in gold or 100 Swiss Francs whichever is smaller. The only catch is they have to be in circulation for a year.
After a year, they will undoubtedly increase in value so that they are worth far more than 100 Swiss Francs, so no one will actually try and turn them in. In the meantime, the central bank will control a modest fee (as a percentage) for buying and selling SWISSCOINS so that they make a huge profit. They will also be responsible for preventing counterfeits. The limit of 10 million SWISSCOINS won't matter because if they become worth enough, they can change the law so that increasingly smaller fractions can be bought and sold, i.e. the SWISSPENNY.
Switzerland already issue a huge amount of money per person than any other country. The prestige of the country as an investment center, and the initial backing by their massive gold stores will give it a big head start.
Of course, politicians from other countries will give populist speeches about how Switzerland is unfairly catering to drug dealers and dictators. It won't matter. I always figured Switzerland fulfills a fundamental need in worldwide economics. If it didn't exist, personal interests would create another one.
Let me be clear, that I am not talking about replacing the Swiss franc with an electronic currency. The country needs the currency to run day to day economics of tourism and manufacturing export. It can't have it's currency increase by a factor of 10 in less than 15 weeks.
After a year, they will undoubtedly increase in value so that they are worth far more than 100 Swiss Francs, so no one will actually try and turn them in. In the meantime, the central bank will control a modest fee (as a percentage) for buying and selling SWISSCOINS so that they make a huge profit. They will also be responsible for preventing counterfeits. The limit of 10 million SWISSCOINS won't matter because if they become worth enough, they can change the law so that increasingly smaller fractions can be bought and sold, i.e. the SWISSPENNY.
Switzerland already issue a huge amount of money per person than any other country. The prestige of the country as an investment center, and the initial backing by their massive gold stores will give it a big head start.
Of course, politicians from other countries will give populist speeches about how Switzerland is unfairly catering to drug dealers and dictators. It won't matter. I always figured Switzerland fulfills a fundamental need in worldwide economics. If it didn't exist, personal interests would create another one.
Let me be clear, that I am not talking about replacing the Swiss franc with an electronic currency. The country needs the currency to run day to day economics of tourism and manufacturing export. It can't have it's currency increase by a factor of 10 in less than 15 weeks.
April 5th, 2013 at 11:21:34 AM
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Quote: AsswhoopermcdaddyBut here's the problem. There's so real monetary institution that is backing the exchange of bitcoins. At least with the Euro, you have the ECB. And while it may be easier to counterfeit a dollar bill than it is to hack a computer code, the reality is some smart ass will be able to write a program that gives him a billion bitcoins (which is more than actually exists).
I am not great on the math or the technical side but I am surrounded by libertarians who are really into bitcoin: the (libertarian) porcupine freedom festival in NH is where the bitcoin ATM was unveiled and it is believed to be the place where more bitcoin transactions have taken place in a short period of time. My understanding is that the 256 bit encryption would require billions of years of an average PC's computing power to crack the private code for just one bitcoin wallet. In the future as PC's get more powerful they can move to 512 bit encryption if necessary. As far as changing the code itself, it is possible (indeed, it happens regularly) but requires that everybody accept and run the new code.
Quote: Asswhoopermcdaddy
There was some chatter about bitcoins being pegged to a gold standard, but this is just as restrictive. I'm surprised at how quickly bitcoins are gaining adoption. However, the run-up is supply and demand driven. There's a lot of demand that will be released over time until you hit the max number of bit coins allowed.
Gold standard is not necessary here. There are 21 million bitcoins that will be created and no more, unless everyone agrees to change the code down the line.
Vote for Nobody 2020!
April 5th, 2013 at 11:31:26 AM
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Quote: EvenBobBitcoins are like collector Elvis plates. There's a limited
number made and they go up in value till they hit a
plateau. They're only worth the price because the
demand sets the price. If collectors lose interest,
prices plummet.
Just think Beanie Babies. Remember those?
Can you safely buy illegal drugs online with beanie babies? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road_(marketplace)
Can you play online banked games and live poker with elvis collector plates or star wars dolls? www.sealswithclubs.eu
Can you think of a better way to transfer $250,000 instantly out of a country like Cyprus, Saudia Arabia, China, etc despite currency controls? Oh, and without paying one cent in fees or taxes?
There is a lot more going on here than meets the eye folks. Bitcoin may be in a bubble at the moment, I would not at all be suprised to see it fall even back to $30 a bitcoin....temporarily. But I think it is wise to put a very small amount of your wealth here, maybe 200 or 300 bucks. Understand that you may well lose it all but the payout is so big if this thing catches on...Bitcoins could easily be worth 5 and even 6 figures.
Vote for Nobody 2020!
April 5th, 2013 at 11:43:25 AM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonWho or what guarantees my bitcoin account/stash/balance?
Good question. You do!!! Again I am not an expert by any stretch but it is something like this: you open a bitcoin wallet which is formed of two keys, one of which is made public and one of which is private. People can send you bitcoins via your public key but you need the private key to spend them. The two keys are mathematically related but it takes a LOT of computer power to derive one using the other, we are talking billions of years on your home computer. If you puiblish the private key then anyone can spend your bitcoins. If you have it on the same computer that you use to look at really sketchy websites, then theoretically someone might be able to grab it off of your computer. The safest way to do it is to create a "paper wallet" and physically write the information on a piece of paper and then wipe the info from your computer.
Vote for Nobody 2020!
April 5th, 2013 at 11:48:22 AM
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Quote: pacomartinYou cannot pay taxes with bitcoins. This ability to accept currency for taxes is one of the principal means that a governments give value to their currency.
Some of us believe that this is a major benefit ;).
Quote: pacomartin
The Fed controls money supply using the dual mandate of maximum employment and stable prices . Bitcoins have no such mandate and their value is likely to fluctuate wildly. Or they may become a significant way to "hold value".
We are still at the very early stages of the bitcoin, assuming it is successful. It is gaining a lot of value right now as the demand is skyrocketing, howevery once the demand levels out and the supply remains fixed bitcoins should gain value very slowly at less than 5% annually.
Vote for Nobody 2020!
April 5th, 2013 at 12:53:40 PM
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Bitcoin is the Franklin Mint in the 80's. Remember when
your granny bought FM silver collector coins because
they were an 'investment'? Then silver tanked? Now silver
is way up, what goes around comes around.
your granny bought FM silver collector coins because
they were an 'investment'? Then silver tanked? Now silver
is way up, what goes around comes around.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
April 5th, 2013 at 1:25:55 PM
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Quote: bigfoot66We are still at the very early stages of the bitcoin, assuming it is successful. It is gaining a lot of value right now as the demand is skyrocketing, howevery once the demand levels out and the supply remains fixed bitcoins should gain value very slowly at less than 5% annually.
Demand's not going to "level out." It's going to drop. Right now, bitcoins are getting a lot of press, and a lot of the people buying into them are the usual magpies, and soon they'll have moved on to the next way of saving the world. After that, there will probably be a slow resurgence, like the slow climb before, but it will only be after the bubble bursts.
Now, I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad idea to put some of your money into bitcoins, but for the love of Variance, don't do it now!
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
April 5th, 2013 at 1:32:09 PM
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Here's a good read:
http://themarkofthebeast.christianmoney.com/2012/11/could-new-currency-thwart-the-mark-of-the-beast.html
http://themarkofthebeast.christianmoney.com/2012/11/could-new-currency-thwart-the-mark-of-the-beast.html
aahigh.com
April 6th, 2013 at 1:25:35 PM
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Quote: AhighHere's a good read:
Two very interesting things in that article:
(1) It was written before the bitcoin was increasing in value at a meteoric rate (it went from $105 to $126 in one day- big windfall for people who bought at less than a dollar a few years ago).
(2) This sentence in the article:
One of the key elements of The Mark Of The Beast is to be able to prevent those that refuse to take the Mark from buying and selling. Bitcoins are decentralized and prevent any such control.
If you are unfamiliar with Revelation 13:16-18 (King James Version)
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
Fundamentalists are often very afraid of changes in money since they think it will be a harbinger of the day prophesied in Revelation. In the past they have often been the loudest critics of credit cards, leaving the gold standard, electronic money, etc.
But here is a fundamentalist advising people to invest in bitcoins (before they shot up in value) because of their decentralized nature will provide them a currency outside of the control of governments. So his advice has nothing to do with their potential return, only because they are outside of national governments that he distrusts.
When all the speculators are played out, if there are millions of people who believe in the bitcoin for broader reasons (like religious or philosophical reasons), it means the currency is more likely to maintain value.
April 6th, 2013 at 4:53:15 PM
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The thing about Bitcoin is its volatile and other currency's
are not. The USD, euro, yen, pound, whatever, don't have
wild swings. You don't worry the bottom will fall out overnight.
Not so with Bitcoin. Its more like a collectible than a currency.
are not. The USD, euro, yen, pound, whatever, don't have
wild swings. You don't worry the bottom will fall out overnight.
Not so with Bitcoin. Its more like a collectible than a currency.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
April 6th, 2013 at 5:05:36 PM
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Here's my problem with bitcoin:
1. I don't accept it as payment from my clients
2. I can't pay any of the TV stations I do business with with bitcoin
3. I can't use it to buy gas at the Shell station on the corner
4. I can't use it to pay for groceries at my Ralph's market
5. Visa, Mastercard and Harrah's Rincon and Caesars Palace won't allow me to bet it either
So why do I need bitcoin?
1. I don't accept it as payment from my clients
2. I can't pay any of the TV stations I do business with with bitcoin
3. I can't use it to buy gas at the Shell station on the corner
4. I can't use it to pay for groceries at my Ralph's market
5. Visa, Mastercard and Harrah's Rincon and Caesars Palace won't allow me to bet it either
So why do I need bitcoin?
April 6th, 2013 at 5:18:14 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonHere's my problem with bitcoin:
1. I don't accept it as payment from my clients
2. I can't pay any of the TV stations I do business with with bitcoin
3. I can't use it to buy gas at the Shell station on the corner
4. I can't use it to pay for groceries at my Ralph's market
5. Visa, Mastercard and Harrah's Rincon and Caesars Palace won't allow me to bet it either
So why do I need bitcoin?
I outlined some reasons earlier:
You can buy illegal drugs with bitcoin.
You can circumvent currency controls and move money freely across international borders.
You can move money freely and anonymously and perhaps avoid taxes.
If you do accept bitcoin as payment the payer cannot "chargeback" without your consent.
You can legally (at least for now) gamble online with bitcoins.
Ben Bernake can't inflate bitcoins.
And all of this without transaction fees.
Vote for Nobody 2020!
April 6th, 2013 at 5:26:20 PM
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Quote: bigfoot66I outlined some reasons earlier:
You can buy illegal drugs with bitcoin.
You can circumvent currency controls and move money freely across international borders.
You can move money freely and anonymously and perhaps avoid taxes.
If you do accept bitcoin as payment the payer cannot "chargeback" without your consent.
You can legally (at least for now) gamble online with bitcoins.
Ben Bernake can't inflate bitcoins.
And all of this without transaction fees.
Backed by drugs, as good as being backed by silver or gold.
F, I blew this one.
I am a robot.
April 6th, 2013 at 5:35:08 PM
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Quote: bigfoot66I outlined some reasons earlier:
You can buy illegal drugs with bitcoin.
You can circumvent currency controls and move money freely across international borders.
You can move money freely and anonymously and perhaps avoid taxes.
If you do accept bitcoin as payment the payer cannot "chargeback" without your consent.
You can legally (at least for now) gamble online with bitcoins.
Ben Bernake can't inflate bitcoins.
And all of this without transaction fees.
Damn, next time I get caught in a riot I am going to put a sign on my back that says "Don't Shoot. Will pay bitcoin."
April 6th, 2013 at 5:39:46 PM
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Quote: bigfoot66I outlined some reasons earlier:
You can buy illegal drugs with bitcoin.
.
The guy standing on the corner in the hood
selling crack takes Bitcoin? Really? I'd bet real
money he's never heard of it.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
April 6th, 2013 at 7:29:31 PM
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Quote: EvenBobThe guy standing on the corner in the hood
selling crack takes Bitcoin? Really? I'd bet real
money he's never heard of it.
They sure do, if you don't believe me go up to a couple of them and ask. I bet they have the app on their iphone.
Statistics don't lie, they deceive.
April 6th, 2013 at 8:36:43 PM
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Quote: Maverick17They sure do, if you don't believe me go up to a couple of them and ask. I bet they have the app on their iphone.
I have to agree with you. To people in the business whose lives are very much on the line because of the difficulties in moving cash, I bet they are all over this story. It's not a question of them being tech savvy, it's there wet dream.
April 6th, 2013 at 8:57:52 PM
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"This is the first way Bitcoin will suddenly be worthless. Once some drug dealer trading it in Bitcoins is tracked down, it’s going to make other drug dealers skittish. Demand will drop… and Bitcoins, already pretty volatile, will drop with it. It may not kill Bitcoin entirely but it will kill a large part of the appeal....All it will take for Bitcoin to be worthless is one breach. Once the community realizes that it could lose all their coins in an instant, the value will drop like a rock. And make no mistake. It may not happen tomorrow, it may not happen next week, but it will happen. And once it happens, that’s the end of Bitcoin.'
http://www.uproxx.com/technology/2012/08/this-is-whats-really-going-to-happen-to-bitcoin/#ixzz2PkLbpvR6
http://www.uproxx.com/technology/2012/08/this-is-whats-really-going-to-happen-to-bitcoin/#ixzz2PkLbpvR6
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
April 8th, 2013 at 10:36:36 AM
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I just started reading about this and to me it's like a baseball card or any other collectible. It's value is whatever the next guy will give you for it. Personally I won't be owning any as I don't believe the system is on the level and I think the fad will eventually fade. (Yes yes I know the current US banking/federal reserve system isn't exactly on the level either, but it's the devil you know versus the devil you don't)
The article I read talked about how you can write computer programs to 'mine' (create?) bit coins by solving complex math problems. How is that different from a government or reserve bank printing money?
The article I read talked about how you can write computer programs to 'mine' (create?) bit coins by solving complex math problems. How is that different from a government or reserve bank printing money?
April 8th, 2013 at 10:41:32 AM
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Uhm. Yeah. I got in at $135 and thought it would head to $70.
If I bought more now, I'd expect it to go to $100, but I'd probably be wrong again. But that's the sort of wrong I don't mind being.
If I bought more now, I'd expect it to go to $100, but I'd probably be wrong again. But that's the sort of wrong I don't mind being.
aahigh.com
April 8th, 2013 at 10:43:56 AM
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The total amount of bitcoin is limited, and cannot be easily added to. The amount added is not under control of one central reserve, but by the number of people wanting to mine coins.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
April 8th, 2013 at 11:40:27 AM
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April 8th, 2013 at 11:48:35 AM
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Quote: EvenBobThe guy standing on the corner in the hood
selling crack takes Bitcoin? Really? I'd bet real
money he's never heard of it.
I provided a link earlier in the thread.
Vote for Nobody 2020!
