cwazy
cwazy
Joined: Mar 18, 2016
  • Threads: 12
  • Posts: 87
July 15th, 2017 at 6:28:46 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Many casinos use the $3000 limit by default. One reason is that many kiosks have a $3000 redemption limit per ticket.

You are correct that it is a game option on almost every game that the casino can set at any limits they choose. It is not structuring unless the patron is specifially trying to avoid the reporting when they cash in the tickets.

As an FYI, slot machine jackpots are not aggregated and are not counted towards the $10,000 CTR limits.



Hmm...I think the IRS would disagree with you that slot ticket cashouts don't count toward the $10k limit. My point was that this is a form of forced structuring, basically because casinos don't want to deal with the paperwork.

Let's say you accumulate $30k worth of such tickets in a day. You take them to a kiosk. Many kiosks accept multiple tickets in one transaction, but automatically stop and dispense cash at some point before $3k. You would stand there and the machine would dispense a total of $30k to you in cash in multiple transactions, and no CTR would be made.

So you have machines on the floor that break up tickets into increments below $3k, and kiosks that break up transactions so that they are below $3k as well, both specifically to avoid the record keeping and reporting requirements.

How is that not structuring? It's certainly not intentional on the part of the player, but it seems like a prima facie case of structuring on the part of the casino.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
  • Threads: 63
  • Posts: 10859
July 15th, 2017 at 7:17:13 PM permalink
Quote: Hunterhill

This happened to someone I know also,and it was for a similar small amount.
I believe it was at the bird standing on one leg place.


Must be the Gay Vowel.
"And that's the bottom lineeeee, cuz Stone Cold said so!"
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
  • Threads: 63
  • Posts: 3257
July 15th, 2017 at 7:45:43 PM permalink
Quote: cwazy

Hmm...I think the IRS would disagree with you that slot ticket cashouts don't count toward the $10k limit. My point was that this is a form of forced structuring, basically because casinos don't want to deal with the paperwork.



You must have misinterpreted what I said. Slot jackpots ($1200 or more), don't count towards CTR's. Tickets cashouts that add up to $10,000 do.

The IRS distinguishes between known cashouts and cashouts. The rule is if the casino knows it is more than $10k they must do a CTR. The beauty of kiosks for the casinos is if they, the casino personnel, don't know it is over $10k they don't have to do one. The kiosks give them the plausible deniability because the kiosk doesn't know if it is the same person cashing out or different individuals, Trust me, the casinos don't want to know because you are right they don't want to do the paperwork and be subject to the IRS audits.

I have a pretty good understanding of this because I teach training classes on AML\BSA for casino employees.

I am not aware of any kiosks that will prevent you from cashing in Tickets that aggregate to $10k. If you have 10 $1000 tickets cash them each in individually and you wouldn't run into any problems
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
  • Threads: 63
  • Posts: 3257
July 15th, 2017 at 7:57:36 PM permalink
I am currently going though an AML/BSA with a property.. So far so good.
cwazy
cwazy
Joined: Mar 18, 2016
  • Threads: 12
  • Posts: 87
July 15th, 2017 at 8:03:13 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

I am currently going though an AML/BSA with a property.. So far so good.



Fair enough. I'm just saying it all seems structured specifically to avoid reporting, so it seems like we are held to a different standard than casinos. I know of cases where very minor, borderline conduct has been prosecuted as structuring against individuals, yet casinos have implemented entire series of processes to do the same thing, and it's just fine. It hardly seems like fair or equitable treatment under the law.
djatc
djatc
Joined: Jan 15, 2013
  • Threads: 80
  • Posts: 3622
July 15th, 2017 at 11:09:42 PM permalink
I had a $30k TITO once. That was fun.
They asked me how well I understood theoretical physics. I said I had a theoretical degree in physics. They said welcome aboard.
BobDancer
BobDancer
Joined: Jun 22, 2013
  • Threads: 13
  • Posts: 152
July 16th, 2017 at 1:03:15 AM permalink
Quote: JohnnyQ

WELL, TO ME it looks SIMILAR TO a roulette wheel complete with 36 numbers and one or two zeroes, they each spot must have an equal chance of coming up.



Well, they are both round and have numbers. A roulette wheel has equal-sized slots containing consecutive numbers 1-36 in red or black, plus one or more green zeroes.

The wheel displayed in your post has several colors and non-consecutive numbers. The "small" numbers appear to be 50 or 60 and the large ones appear to be 500 and 1000. (I can't see the picture clearly --- but clearly the numbers aren't consecutive.) The picture shows three slices which look double-sized --- which a roulette wheel never has.

Maybe we differ on what "similar" means, but I don't think this wheel looks similar to a roulette wheel at all.
BobDancer
BobDancer
Joined: Jun 22, 2013
  • Threads: 13
  • Posts: 152
July 16th, 2017 at 1:06:52 AM permalink
Quote: djatc

I had a $30k TITO once. That was fun.



Those are fun --- especially if you had a $20K or larger jackpot to help you get there.

If you created the ticket merely by inserting smaller tickets --- it's no big deal.

Hopefully you didn't have to use it as a partial pay for a $50K marker!
JohnnyQ
JohnnyQ
Joined: Nov 3, 2009
  • Threads: 188
  • Posts: 2523
July 16th, 2017 at 4:53:52 AM permalink
Quote: BobDancer

Maybe we differ on what "similar" means, but I don't think this wheel looks similar to a roulette wheel at all.

I was referring to this statement:

Quote: BobDancer

Or if it looked like a roulette wheel complete with 36 numbers and one or two zeroes, they each spot must have an equal chance of coming up.



So, for a Wheel of Fortune game, is the chance of each spot coming up proportional to the size depiction shown on the W-o-F slot machine ?

- Is that required by state of Nevada gaming regulations ?

- If so, is the W-o-F game in compliance ( I am sure it is, the manufacturer wouldn't risk its reputation and a lawsuit, right ?) ?

- Why, why not ?
I remember the thirty-five sweet goodbyes; When you put me on the Wolverine up to Annandale; It was still September When your daddy was quite surprised; To find you with the working girls in the county jail; I was smoking with the boys upstairs when I Heard about the whole affair;I said oh no William and Mary won't do
Sandybestdog
Sandybestdog
Joined: Feb 3, 2015
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 85
July 16th, 2017 at 7:57:05 AM permalink
I have always wondered how casino's get away with freely sharing info among themselves and databases? I mean, I work in retail and handle customers sensitive info. We are taught to keep it secure. If the FTC were to see a copy of a drivers license sitting out in the open, it could be a $16,000 fine. Yet casino's blatantly share your info.

About a year ago, I was playing $10 blackjack and a security guard came up to me and said management doesn't really want me playing there anymore. I was caught off guard as I wasn't expecting it. I simply left and thought that was the end of it. I then found myself being backed off almost everywhere I went. I was even asked to leave a poker room playing low stakes limit poker. I basically can't play rated anywhere now.

How is it legal for casinos to do this? Yes they have the right to ask you not to play at their establishment but how can they possibly get away with slandering my name to every other casino around and hindering my right to play at any other establishment?

  • Jump to: