Ethics of betting more when the pit boss is watching

Dishonest? No, you risked $50 just because you did it for possibly better comps won't change the odds on the bet. BTW, don't you think Pit Bosses have been around long enough to know what you're trying to do. I'd say bet $50 and tip the crew $5 so they 'maybe' won't consider what you're trying to do.

If all that worries you tho... Just use a Reverse Fibonacci Sequence when the Pit Boss comes around. I.E. 8 units, 5 units, 3 units, 2 units, 1 unit, and then 1 unit. He'll probably average the first 3 which will get you and average of 5 units where your actually betting an average of 3 units per roll. You have a 2 unit advantage on your comps so tip the crew 1 unit BY placing it as a bet on the pass line (dual benefit) increase your average but makes the crew happy.

What is the best way to get comps from a casino while playing within your limits? Mine are very low at the time. How do you calculate what a casino will give you in comps for your play? Is there any way to get more bang for your buck? I remember hearing years ago that if you came in with another player - splitting the bets - and one bet the pass line and the other bet the don't pass line. You would break even on your bets between both players and would earn comps. Is something like thiws easy to detect? How does a casino deal with these individuals?

Quote: vphammer

What is the best way to get comps from a casino while playing within your limits?

As a card counter, who plays very short sessions, I often exit at the shuffle after showing my higher wagers. This has nothing to do with comps, but rather is my "hit and run" style of play based on my top priority of longevity. BUT, a hidden benefit is that when playing rated, you will be exiting just after having played your bigger bets, so those bets will be fresh in the mind of the pit folks and often result in a larger average bet rating, which will lead to higher comps and offers.

What if I've been identified as a counter? I am.

I would think that if I used a card in my name that I would not be comped well?

Quote: jjjoooggg

What if I've been identified as a counter? I am.

I would think that if I used a card in my name that I would not be comped well?

You are correct, once identified as a counter comps will diminish or disappear altogether. A lot of players don't realize it, but your play is rated as far as skill level right along with monetary betting levels. A player rated at a basic strategy type skill will receive less comps than a 'poor' rated player betting the same amounts. And a player rated as an AP or skilled player will get very minimal if any comps.

This is sort of the very first level of heat or making a player feel unwelcome. Other early heat tactics include the pit talking to you attempting to distract you and bringing in faster dealers. Not all places even use these initial levels and go straight to bet restrictions, and cutting the shoe in half (reduced penetration) to let you know your play is not welcome. And if you ignore these signals, then they progress to backoffs and barings.

You should also not let an excessive amount of points build up on your account, as they can be wiped clean if the casino decides they don't want your play and in most cases there is nothing you can do about it. Those points and offers are complimentary, they are not owed to you and can be taken back at any time.

For what it's worth Babs I also agree with you, though I know Z is in the industry. I've literally had a PB tell me, when I asked for a comp "Eh, you only bought in for $300" when I was betting $100 per hand for about the last 15-20 minutes (amazing shoe). I pointed that out and he again commented on my small buy in. I asked "So that has something to do with it?" and he said "Yes." Whether or not he just didn't want to comp me, I'll never know, but this was my experience and thus I always buy in for cash and "enough" to appease them but not draw too much attention.

Quote: vphammer

What is the best way to get comps from a casino while playing within your limits? Mine are very low at the time. How do you calculate what a casino will give you in comps for your play? Is there any way to get more bang for your buck? I remember hearing years ago that if you came in with another player - splitting the bets - and one bet the pass line and the other bet the don't pass line. You would break even on your bets between both players and would earn comps. Is something like thiws easy to detect? How does a casino deal with these individuals?

The casinos will be happy to invite you and your friend. You are both playing with a negative expectation. I would imagine a player (you) playing only pass line accumulates little in comp value. I would imagine a player (your friend) only playing don't pass accumulates little in comp value. You would only break even on the sum of your bets if you have magic dice that never roll a 12 on a come out roll....

Quote: vphammer

What is the best way to get comps from a casino while playing within your limits? Mine are very low at the time. How do you calculate what a casino will give you in comps for your play? Is there any way to get more bang for your buck? I remember hearing years ago that if you came in with another player - splitting the bets - and one bet the pass line and the other bet the don't pass line. You would break even on your bets between both players and would earn comps. Is something like thiws easy to detect? How does a casino deal with these individuals?

This used to be a thing and it worked quite well at many locations. Nowadays It's rare, even at a location where in theory it should work they watch for it.

How they deal with it can vary. If you are low rolling the chances are they won't care because the comps and offers are small and insignificant. If 2 guys are betting large amounts they usually take notice and they can react in different ways. They can simply not rate you, all the way to 86'ing you.

What about a partial or 75% offset? I wonder if there is a point where the comps would exceed the Expected Loss? I doubt it, but it's an interesting question.

Quote: Mission146

What about a partial or 75% offset? I wonder if there is a point where the comps would exceed the Expected Loss? I doubt it, but it's an interesting question.

It's possible at some rare location you could earn more in comps and mailing offers. Until someone writes about it and then the casino puts the kibosh on it.

Quote: AxelWolf

This used to be a thing and it worked quite well at many locations. Nowadays It's rare, even at a location where in theory it should work they watch for it.

How they deal with it can vary. If you are low rolling the chances are they won't care because the comps and offers are small and insignificant. If 2 guys are betting large amounts they usually take notice and they can react in different ways. They can simply not rate you, all the way to 86'ing you.

Why on earth?

I get not rating that action, but not booking it at all? That's avant garde.

Quote: AxelWolf

This used to be a thing and it worked quite well at many locations. Nowadays It's rare, even at a location where in theory it should work they watch for it.

What's the difference between that and doey-don't?

Quote: Deucekies

Quote: AxelWolf

This used to be a thing and it worked quite well at many locations. Nowadays It's rare, even at a location where in theory it should work they watch for it.

How they deal with it can vary. If you are low rolling the chances are they won't care because the comps and offers are small and insignificant. If 2 guys are betting large amounts they usually take notice and they can react in different ways. They can simply not rate you, all the way to 86'ing you.

Why on earth?

I get not rating that action, but not booking it at all? That's avant garde.

The 86'ing usually comes after they realize their mistake and you have successfully used many offers, comps, free bets etc etc. They just don't like that you got over on them, so they don't want you around anymore. There's still a few places around you can generate +EV playing craps though the players club. You have to do it sparingly or they will simply end it or you for good. There's a lot of time investing in order to find the sweet spots. Play to long/big and you give up to much. Play to small and short and you don't get enough.

You are probably better off NOT teaming up with someone and just dealing with the variance.

A discipline dedicated person could probably successfully beat craps by running around from casino to casino once you have figured out each place. If your that dedicated and savvy there's much better things you could be doing to make money. It's probably something an AP should mix in, especially if he already has a reason to be at that location or it's slow.

Unfortunately there's a catch, If you're already established and getting mail at that location(lets say on VP) doing this could mess up your mail.

There's one place I feel it's worthwhile that won't affect anything.

Quote: SanchoPanza

What's the difference between that and doey-don't?

Doey-don't goes off the principle of "I'm beating craps because I can place my odds where I want them" or something stupid. Doing it with 2 different people, odds on both sides, and having the knowledge you'll get comped well, means you aren't beating craps itself (as you know craps is still -EV), but where you're profiting is from the free bets and other comps you get in the mail.

Quote: RS

Doey-don't goes off the principle of "I'm beating craps because I can place my odds where I want them" or something stupid. Doing it with 2 different people, odds on both sides, and having the knowledge you'll get comped well, means you aren't beating craps itself (as you know craps is still -EV), but where you're profiting is from the free bets and other comps you get in the mail.

So the only difference is the rewards credits. Here's to going from $5 on each line to $500. AND HOPE TO HELL BOXCARS NEVER SHOWS. Hehe!! Except that I'm starting to find that some additional houses are insisting that odds bets conform to the table minimum.