WABJ11
WABJ11
Joined: Dec 26, 2020
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January 24th, 2021 at 10:32:43 PM permalink
Iím confused on these terms for the Wizard saying the House edge for craps. I think the last one is self explanatory (I think), but I donít understand the difference in the first two?

HOUSE EDGE
PER BET MADE

HOUSE EDGE
PER BET RESOLVED

HOUSE EDGE
PER ROLL
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
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January 25th, 2021 at 4:20:43 AM permalink
Quote: WABJ11

Iím confused on these terms for the Wizard saying the House edge for craps. I think the last one is self explanatory (I think), but I donít understand the difference in the first two?



First off, I'll want to go ahead and direct you to the chart on this page:

https://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/basics/#toc-DefiningtheHouseEdge

Quote:

HOUSE EDGE
PER BET MADE



There are two betting components that make Craps somewhat unique to many other games:

1.) The ability to, "Take some bets down," before they are resolved. In fact, that's the case with almost every multi-roll bet except for Pass Line bets and Come bets.

2.) The fact that a Don't Pass bet pushes on a Come Out 12, which is really why this, "Bet Made," metric even exists.

In the case of the Don't Pass bet, "Bet Made," simply means that this is the house edge factoring in the fact that you can push on a Come Out 12. In the case of most other multi-roll bets, "Bet Made," house edge and, "Per Roll," House Edge are the exact same thing. It just means how much you are expected to lose on the next roll.

Again, the unique feature of most of these multi-roll bets is the fact that you can, "Pick them up," after every roll...even if they are unresolved. In that sense, you're technically making the bet every single roll by leaving it out there.

Quote:

HOUSE EDGE
PER BET RESOLVED



Bet resolved House Edge refers to either bets that you can not, "Pick up," or to bets that you intend to leave out there until the end. Most players will not make a Hard Way bet, for example, and then pick it up if it doesn't resolve on the next roll, so bet resolved will be what applies to most players. This is also useful for determining your average expected loss based on the amount you are betting on a particular proposition.

Quote:

HOUSE EDGE
PER ROLL



This just means the House Edge per roll, which is the same thing as bet made for many bets. This is useful for determining your expected loss (based on bet amount) for each roll that you leave a particular bet out there.
Vultures can't be choosers.
charliepatrick
charliepatrick
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
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Thanks for this post from:
WABJ11
January 25th, 2021 at 4:44:02 PM permalink
Craps is different from most games in the some bets can take several rolls before you either win or lose.

In Roulette you make a bet, the dealer spins the wheel and the winning number is determined, bets are settled.

This difference means you can look at the cost (expected loss) of bets in Craps in various ways.

Suppose I make a Pass-line bet. The House Edge is stated at about 1.41%. This means if you make a $100 wager, on average you'll receive back $98.59. However once you've made the bet it may take several rolls before the outcome of the bet is resolved, and once made the bet must stay in place.

Suppose I make a Place bet (say on the 6). The House Edge is stated at about 1.52%. This means if you make a $100 wager (and it paid the correct odds) on average you'll receive back $98.48, Similar to the Pass bet it may take several rolls before the outcome of the bet is resolved. However unlike a Pass wager, if the bet is not resolved, you can remove your bet. Therefore one way of looking at this bet is that on each roll you either win, lose or the bet stands off - this viewpoint gives a House Edge of 0.46%.
WABJ11
WABJ11
Joined: Dec 26, 2020
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January 27th, 2021 at 7:35:19 PM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick

Craps is different from most games in the some bets can take several rolls before you either win or lose.

In Roulette you make a bet, the dealer spins the wheel and the winning number is determined, bets are settled.

This difference means you can look at the cost (expected loss) of bets in Craps in various ways.

Suppose I make a Pass-line bet. The House Edge is stated at about 1.41%. This means if you make a $100 wager, on average you'll receive back $98.59. However once you've made the bet it may take several rolls before the outcome of the bet is resolved, and once made the bet must stay in place.

Suppose I make a Place bet (say on the 6). The House Edge is stated at about 1.52%. This means if you make a $100 wager (and it paid the correct odds) on average you'll receive back $98.48, Similar to the Pass bet it may take several rolls before the outcome of the bet is resolved. However unlike a Pass wager, if the bet is not resolved, you can remove your bet. Therefore one way of looking at this bet is that on each roll you either win, lose or the bet stands off - this viewpoint gives a House Edge of 0.46%.



Thanks for that explanation. Do you have a way to PM you? You seem very knowledgeable about the math on craps. What I donít understand is that once the point is established, or the bet moves out of the ďdonít comeĒ box to a number, every roll thereafter youíre playing with an advantage since a 7 has the most combinations. The house has an advantage over you for that single roll in the DC box. But what about the +EV rolls every time the bet moves to a number and youíre waiting for that seven? That has to negate some of the house edge since youíre now playing with an advantage every roll waiting for that 7.
charliepatrick
charliepatrick
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
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January 28th, 2021 at 1:04:00 AM permalink
The DC bet has two parts, the Come-Out roll and sitting waiting for the Point (in this case hopefully not to be made). As you've said there is a logical cost involved in getting past the Come Out (because you lose at that stage more often than you win). Once over that hurdle you've got an advantage that you've now got the bet paying Evens for an Odd-On chance. These two nearly offset each other (you need a Bar12 like rule so the Casino has its House Edge). It is true the second part can take several turns to materialize, but this doesn't affect the maths on the basic House Edge, just the House Edge per roll value.

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