Video Proof: Random Rollers vs Dice Setters
Quote: HiOpt2PoorI had an excellent win dice setting a couple weeks back.
100% true story. I won 3K not sure it had anything to do with the dice setting. But the nice person next to me called his host to the table and got me a comped room and the place was sold out. Maybe I'll keep practicing my Dice Set. lol
Pascal's Wager, so why the hell not if you're going to play Craps anyway?
If you're right, then dice setting helps you.
If you're wrong, then dice setting does not hurt you.
The only way it could hurt you is if you were right, but were doing it wrong. Even then, dice setting would still be changing the probabilities a bit and would, "Work," in that sense.
Do I believe in dice setting? Nope. Do I set the dice on the rare occasion that I play Craps? You bet!
Quote: Mission146Pascal's Wager, so why the hell not if you're going to play Craps anyway?
If you're wrong, then dice setting does not hurt you.
Pascal's wager states if you are wrong, you lose nothing. Not true in casino games. If you are wrong, dice setting or not, you still LOSE!
Quote: ChapzPascal's wager states if you are wrong, you lose nothing. Not true in casino games. If you are wrong, dice setting or not, you still LOSE!
It’s restive to baseline. Assume you are playing craps either way. So you lose the same whether or not you dice set. So you lose nothing (relative to baseline) by setting the dice.
Quote: ChapzWhat if the dice setting cause the the roll to lose vs a random throw?
You’ve hit on the Schmod counter argument to Pascal’s Wager. Brilliant!
Quote: ChapzMy point is, you can't apply Pascal's wager to casino games.
Your posts have not persuasively made that point. Your prior post in fact made it even more clearly related to Pascal’s wage.
Paraphrased:
Pascal:
There may or may not be a God. I may or may not believe in Him. The only way I lose is if there is a God and I do not believe in Him.
Schmod counter:
There may or may not be a Schmod. I may or may not believe in Him. The only way I lose is if there is a Schmod and I do believe in Him.
http://www.classicallibrary.org/pascal/pensees/pensees03.htm
You are assuming that if you set the dice and lost, you would have lost also if you threw the dice randomly. That is the flaw.
There is no such thing as 'nothing to lose' in casino games.
Quote: Chapz"If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing."
http://www.classicallibrary.org/pascal/pensees/pensees03.htm
You are assuming that if you set the dice and lost, you would have lost also if you threw the dice randomly. That is the flaw.
There is no such thing as 'nothing to lose' in casino games.
Nor in life. How many +EV (for whatever your definition of EV) have been passed up due to belief in God. Mere belief with no difference in life lived is not the point.
Quote: ChapzPascal's wager states if you are wrong, you lose nothing. Not true in casino games. If you are wrong, dice setting or not, you still LOSE!
I agree, hence my caveat, "If you're going to play Craps anyway."
Quote: ChapzWhat if the dice setting caused the the roll to lose vs a random throw?
I agree and mentioned that. "If you were right, but were doing it wrong."
Quote: daveyandersen1WHO SAYS!!!! DICE SETTER BELIEVERS ARE"NOT that SMART I want some proof of this statement...AND don't say the proof is in the fact that I"m responding to a 4 month old post... from A- HIGH
Davey, it's not my intention to kick the hornets nest, OK? I found an article that talks about dice setting.
I decided to share it. The author's take is that it is yet to be confirmed one way or the other whether "Rhythm Rolling" (which includes setting the dice in this article) is an effective advantage play. Bill Zender, the author, starts by attempting to defend this, his opening sentence:
Quote: CASINO-OLOGY: Control FreaksAnyone who has played craps and thrown the dice believes they can somehow control the outcome of the dice.
Ahem, really? In addition to Rhythm Rolling, the article also discusses Scooting & Sliding as possible advantage plays. Illegal in Nevada, y'say? Maybe and maybe not, according to the article. If what the article said is true, it was news to me. (But, I sometimes never get the memo, or whatever.)
My bottom line: It was an interesting read, but I find it difficult to believe any seasoned craps player would affirm his lead sentence. Sorta hard NOT to take offense, don'cher know?
when the author said "anyone who has played craps and thrown the dice, believes they can control the outcome of the dice" IS telling the truth because I think he is refering to peoples sense of confidence in themselves... I know whenever I throw I feel like MY throw is gonna be the ONE..TROUBLE IS it very rarely comes to fruition.. However I was wondering why A-High said what he did..THAT DICE SETTER BELIEVERS AREN'T THAT SMART..Quote: LuckyPhowDavey, it's not my intention to kick the hornets nest, OK? I found an article that talks about dice setting.
I decided to share it. The author's take is that it is yet to be confirmed one way or the other whether "Rhythm Rolling" (which includes setting the dice in this article) is an effective advantage play. Bill Zender, the author, starts by attempting to defend this, his opening sentence:
Ahem, really? In addition to Rhythm Rolling, the article also discusses Scooting & Sliding as possible advantage plays. Illegal in Nevada, y'say? Maybe and maybe not, according to the article. If what the article said is true, it was news to me. (But, I sometimes never get the memo, or whatever.)
My bottom line: It was an interesting read, but I find it difficult to believe any seasoned craps player would affirm his lead sentence. Sorta hard NOT to take offense, don'cher know?
Anyone else who SETS the dice and throws them using some sort of regimen or discipline is HOPING that the dice will bounce and settle favorably.
There is NO CONTROL in a legal throw and the NGC defines a legal throw as:
1. Two dice are thrown simultaneously
2. Dice must fly in the air above the table surface
3. Dice must hit the table surface at least once
4. Dice must hit the back wall
In a legal throw your hope is only to limit the bouncing.
It's not dice setters but those who wish to be Dice Influencers (DI's) that were being disparaged.
DI's are easily fooled by randomness as it affects their desire to practice and understand how to influence the outcome of a legal throw.
First off Lets hope your at that table... Then you play your usual game and you will win ALOT.30 to 50 rolls would be like heaven Right????Quote: ChumpChangeWhen you've been having a hard time with everybody at the table throwing a point 7-out, or just passing the dice because they lack confidence to throw any better, when the DI gets the dice, how are you gonna bet if he's expected to throw 30-50 rolls?
or you could witness 18 yos in a row and never bet themQuote: ChumpChangeNot if I only bet the PL and the PB 6 and only get 2 hits on each.
Quote: AhighIt's NOT personal, but honestly, most people who believe in DI just are NOT that SMART.
Indeed.
They are to craps tables as jail is to criminals: just a place to keep them out of the mainstream population so they don't get in the way of real progress.
The first skill is keeping both dice on the table. It amazes me how many players cant do this.
Other skills include hitting the back wall while keeping both dice on the table.
More advanced skills include hitting the back wall, keeping both dice on the table, and a short bounce back.
More advanced skills include keeping the dice on axis, limiting the number of rotations, and keeping the dice parallel and traveling together.
Control? No one controls dice. Every bounce eliminates control. But just having multiple stages of influence gives you hope for a better result.
Would you play blackjack if you're not trying to count cards? Why play craps if you're not trying to influence the dice... at least to the point of keeping both dice on the table, hitting the back wall and limiting the bounces thereafter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egShVicO5Jw
Quote: AlanMendelson
Control? No one controls dice. Every bounce eliminates control. But just having multiple stages of influence gives you hope for a better result.
No it doesn’t.
Quote: AlanMendelsonBut just having multiple stages of influence gives you hope for a better result.
No.
The youtube videos are entertaining but they don't establish that all their practicing have benefited them in any way.
Quote: ChapzThe whole point of this thread is to illustrate that we now have an onslaught of youtube videos uploaded by so called dice controllers and yet they don't show they have any advantage over non dice influencers. Sure it's a small sample (however growing by the day) but you do see similar trends in all the videos.
The youtube videos are entertaining but they don't establish that all their practicing have benefited them in any way.
Not one of the videos I've seen, including Ahigh's many videos, show anything close to a dice throw that limits the bounce and rotation of the dice. They are nothing but random throws.
The few people who can influence dice to limit bounce and rotation do not have public videos. They'd be crazy to do it.
Personally I've seen in person only three such shooters in more than 30 years of playing craps.
REAL TABLE CRAPS GAME! FINALLY TESTING SKILLS ON A PRIVATE TABLE AT THE PLAZA CASINO IN VEGAS! 🤩 - God of Gambling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdLZxHh2CX0
I've seen almost every video from god of gambling HE's no dice influencer.. In fact I don't see any of these you tube LIVE GAME VIDEOS showing any influence of DI at all ...They are kind of fun to watch just to pretend I'm there gambling.. the table is so bouncy it would drive me nuttier than i already am...Quote: ChumpChangeWatching a couple of Don't players throwing on a super bouncy table with a second camera on the other end to catch the throws (but they should have zoomed it out a little bit).
REAL TABLE CRAPS GAME! FINALLY TESTING SKILLS ON A PRIVATE TABLE AT THE PLAZA CASINO IN VEGAS! 🤩 - God of Gambling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdLZxHh2CX0
Quote: daveyandersen1Allan Mendelson has got to be referring to THE DOMINATOR from golden touch..
I've seen Dominator's YouTube videos. He is not among the three players I was referring to.
