places to play

t seems everyday it is harder to play craps if your a dice setter. Now i said setter, that is
different than a person that can actually influence the dice.

But to the casino, it is the dice setter that gets noticed, it does not matter if your good
or terrible, they see you, and were are all lumped together.

I understand there are a lot of tables to play on, but today many casino's are using higher
tables or bouncy tables which are hard to play on and some you cant or atleast i cant
get an avantage on.

Some folks think this is a joke, acting like kids, arguing over nothing, and ganging up on
the table. These things get noticed and affect the players that come after you.

So far tribal casino's have not been to much of a problem, but Vegas today is not
the same as it was 10 years ago. At many it is no longer an enjoyable experience considering
the heat you get and the crews downtown and on the strip spend more time arguing between
themselves than they do paying correctly.

It may well get worse before it gets better, but that will depend on us, how we play the game,
how we respect other players, how we make it easier to accept us by playing faster, playing
more alone or 1-2 guys, or getting to the table seperately so as not to make the pit boss think
a dice class is back in town.

All of us should be careful not to make matters worse, particularly those of us that visit the Vegas
area, so we dont make it worse for the folks that live there.

Dice setting has changed the game forever, i think it is a win for us and the casino, but until
they come to their senses, they can make it hard on us.

dicesetter

Casinos are fighting for every penny nowadays,I wish they could adapt a different strategy. For example, charge people 3k for stay and visit, it will allow AP to gain profit, which in turn will stimulate the economy.

Great idea, bump up meal prices, car fare, maybe even landing fees and each AP could have his own private casino.

It should work the same way as poker tournaments, casino should be a place to win not getting robbed.

The reason poker sites became so popular, because of real people winning tons of money, depressed dealers, loosing, upset players hardly awakes desire to gamble.

Do you try to thwart the thoughts and hijack every thread you occupy? Dice Sitter is once again stirring the pot and starting another DI thread. Pay attention to the agenda.

nice try

dicesetter

Quote: dicesitter

t seems everyday it is harder to play craps if your a dice setter.

Not at all. Just do whatever it is you wish to do with the dice in a prompt manner and you can shoot as you like.

Why should a casino have a problem with dice setting, so long as the shooter does it very quickly and does not slow the game down?

It seems to me a casino is more likely to be concerned about claims by alleged DI's that they have a true advantage, as trumpeted by mass media authors who claim that "Dice Controllers are Winning Millions From the Casinos."

Casino workers only SEE the dice setting, but they HEAR and READ the wild-eyed claims and act in response.

Apt.

The dealers are under pressure from the suits to keep the game moving at ALL TIMES. This means that, when players take too long to set the dice then it is their jobs to hurry them up.
The alternative is to stop dice setting alltogether.

Some casinos are more of a problem than others. Someplaces just let it go because they know it will cause more of an issue trying to fight than just letting them set the bloody dice and getting on with it.

My opinion is that there should be a happy medium like with most other things. The dealers should let the players set the dice and also the players should not take the mick out by taking 30 secondes to do so. Set them, pick them up and throw them, finish. Don't give the already miserable dealers another reason to be even more miserable.

Just my 5 cents worth!

Tomspur



That may be true here and there, but in most cases that is an excuse for
putting heat on a DI.

In many cases the di is the fastest person on the table. I know i have been
asked not to play several times and i was faster than others.

Just as an example as to what Superrrick said. This year i was at one casino
and the table was slow i got the dice and had a seven out or close to it and
the pit boss stood there and smiled. I got the dice back and made 2 points in
a row and he leaned over and said you cant throw like that here. He wanted
harder and harder until i just quit.

Next time i was there i picked up the dice and he said no you cant throw
like that here, i never threw a single time.

I talked to the big dog and he said we have thousands of dollars on that table
and i am not going to allow some one that practices to take it all. I would
rather never see a player at the table.

His point was not slow play, it was i guess he may have seen some of the claims
made by writers and was not going to take a chance.....period.

If i owned a casino i would have sign out front saying "DI's welcome" because
the poor ones lose many times more than a good one can win.

The biggest thing here is not allowing large betters to play off your rolls. This spring
we had a big guy start to show up on the nights we played and bet table max across
and he made some serious money 3 weeks in a row. Pit boss started to watch the table
more, so as soon as the big guy came , the two of us that are Di's left.

Now we have good nights and bad and make some money and there is no heat at all.

Casino heat for a good shooter is getting worse, not because they actually lose money
on DI's, but because they think they could lose alot.

dicesetter

I thought this thread was about places to play craps where you don't get heat for setting? I set my dice everywhere I've played (except when it's card craps because then it doesn't matter) and I've only had heat at three places because I was winning. (More on that coming up.)

But basically I've never been bothered with setting because I do it so quickly. Frankly, anyone who knows what they are doing can set the dice in a second or two. I know how to rotate the dice by glancing at them while they are being pushed to me for the next shot.

I've written before that I ran into heat at MGM, Bellagio and NYNY because I was winning... not because I was setting... because the heat didn't come until after I was winning. No one said anything about setting during the first few rolls, or before the first pass was made, or even the second.

I understand that there are casinos that don't let people "set" and I think it's because the setters didn't know what they were doing and took too long.

But honestly, I think the shooters who order a drink while the dice are in their hand, or chant something about what number they want, or yell out "this is what I do" or have their girlfriend kiss the dice, or shooters who throw in late bets do more to delay the game than any dice setter who knows what he is doing.

If any of you have problems with setting go play at Caesars. They don't care if you set the dice.

Quote: AlanMendelson

If any of you have problems with setting go play at Caesars. They don't care if you set the dice.

Same goes for us down south. Some cheesehead players should not project their problems on the rest of us. Learn to set em, pick em and flick em.

Again, as with card counting, this whole thing comes down to the casino and their idea of a perceived threat. They don't know enough about the threat but they know that "Bill Zender or Willy Allison" said it was dangerous so we had better listen.

I'm in the business myself and I find it cringeworthy how many people running casinos today have no clue about why certain procedures are enacted and why certain scams should not be allowed.

They are so afraid that they may not hit their targets or percentages of their targets so they can get their incentive bonusses that they lose sight of the important factors of running a casino.

Rant over............

Quote: Tomspur

Again, as with card counting, this whole thing comes down to the casino and their idea of a perceived threat. They don't know enough about the threat but they know that "Bill Zender or Willy Allison" said it was dangerous so we had better listen.

I'm in the business myself and I find it cringeworthy how many people running casinos today have no clue about why certain procedures are enacted and why certain scams should not be allowed.

They are so afraid that they may not hit their targets or percentages of their targets so they can get their incentive bonusses that they lose sight of the important factors of running a casino.

Rant over............

Tomspur, well said! (Although Bill Zender agrees with you 100%.)

Casino Heat has nothing to do with time to set and who ever says it does is just showing their ignorance about Dice Influencing and casino operations.

"I set my dice everywhere I've played (except when it's card craps because then it doesn't matter)"

Alan, it doesn't matter at ANY casino.

Superstitious affectation, is all.

Quote: MrV

"I set my dice everywhere I've played (except when it's card craps because then it doesn't matter)"

Alan, it doesn't matter at ANY casino.

Superstitious affectation, is all.

MrV, Not so fast my friend, your opinion is not the final verdict as Dice Setting does matter, unless you are superstitious that the House edge will win no matter what.

Quote: AlanMendelson

I've written before that I ran into heat at MGM, Bellagio and NYNY because I was winning... not because I was setting... because the heat didn't come until after I was winning. No one said anything about setting during the first few rolls, or before the first pass was made, or even the second.

That's what you guys are calling "heat"? Heat to me would be being warned that an arrest was pending for cheating, not a threat to take away the dice from a hot shooter.

Please at least post what sort of money you were winning? I thought at least MGM and Bellagio go some high rollers?

We should also be reminded at this point that Wynn is suing some foreigners for dice sliding and losing some 700,000.usd. One or more stories indicate the gang also hit other casinos.

Being a "suit" must be a tough job with all this cheating via dice setting and "dice influencing" going on. I'd always thought their main function was to make sure the dealers didn't cheat and/or steal?

Being a "suit" must be a tough job with all this cheating via dice setting and "dice influencing" going on. I'd always thought their main function was to make sure the dealers didn't cheat and/or steal?

Not to be mean but just to let you know that there is a big difference between dice setting/dice influencing and dice sliding....

setting/influencing is certainly not cheating whereas dice sliding is cheating.

Beeeeeegggggg difference ;)

Quote: NokTang

Please at least post what sort of money you were winning? I thought at least MGM and Bellagio go some high rollers?

The amount of money varied and this is interesting because I think it shows that the amount of money doesn't impact their decision when it comes to giving heat to someone they believe is an advantage player or influencing the dice.

At MGM it was a $10 table, but the table was jammed with every spot filled. I took away close to five thousand and I started with $52 across. Not everyone pressed like I did but you can imagine ten players or more each walking away with two or three thousand each at a $10 table would cause a stir.

At NYNY it was also a $10 table. They took the dice away from me after only a few passes. Big money was not involved.

At MGM it was a $25 table, and when I ran into trouble with the crew... and the argument between the table crew and the floor person (who took my side and said "pay those bets) took place... I was the only one at the table and my wins with that table crew were less than two thousand. Ironically, before that crew came to the table I was down about three thousand with the previous table crew.

The point is, the money is a secondary issue. If a crew wants to give you heat it doesn't matter how much money is involved. Remember: it's not the crew's money. They think they are protecting the casino's money so it doesn't matter if you are betting $3 or $30,000. Game protection is part of their job training, so they will bring heat on someone betting $5 just as they would a high roller.

Quote: Tomspur

Not to be mean but just to let you know that there is a big difference between dice setting/dice influencing and dice sliding....

setting/influencing is certainly not cheating whereas dice sliding is cheating.

Beeeeeegggggg difference ;)

Of course, but try to tell that to a crew that says "no dice setting here" or "you must pick em up and throw em."

Quote: Tomspur

Not to be mean but just to let you know that there is a big difference between dice setting/dice influencing and dice sliding....

setting/influencing is certainly not cheating whereas dice sliding is cheating.

Beeeeeegggggg difference ;)

There are some who argue dice sliding isn't cheating. I'll leave that to the courts. However, any attempt to fleece a casino would be considered cheating by most people. People with the ability to set and influence how the wager is resolved is considered a cheater by most reasonable people. Don't let people touch the dice if you, the casino industry, are worried about it. Make them toss the dice out of a cup or simply have a launching machine they press a "throw" button on or an elevated ramp they must come down tumbling etc..

Quote: AlanMendelson

you can imagine ten players or more each walking away with two or three thousand each at a $10 table would cause a stir.
.

The fact it was a "$10.usd" table really doesn't matter. Interesting how the past is much like the present. I saw a table and roll at the Four Queens many years ago get so hot and go so long the "suits" were not only stirring but actually pissed off. At the time they wore Hawaiian shirts for some reason but when I asked about the small dice I felt like they guy would rather shoot me dead than discuss it. They had just lost at least $50,000.usd and acted like it was their own money and they were now broke.