DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear 
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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February 27th, 2012 at 8:59:53 AM permalink
Quote: soulhunt79

The one common exception I will make is I will put the 6/8 odd ON and the rest off. Some dealers will allow this, some won't. You could pick any number you wanted, I just happen to like 6 and 8.

ALL dealers should allow it. If they don't call the boxman / floorperson.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
WongBo
WongBo
Joined: Feb 3, 2012
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February 27th, 2012 at 9:06:16 AM permalink
I prefer to always leave the 4 & 10 on as these numbers don't get rolled often
And I hate it when they hit on a come out and I am OFF!
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief. - Proverb.
MidwestAP
MidwestAP
Joined: Feb 19, 2012
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February 27th, 2012 at 9:18:35 AM permalink
There isn't any EV difference by turning them on or off since, thus making it a personal preference type of decision. I use to keep the odds turned on all the time but have since changed my approach. I now allow them to stay off for the following reasons.

1) It's easier on the dealers and fewer mistakes are made by instucting them to keep the odds on (especially at crowded tables).
2) It provides me to 'relax' though the come out roll since I have less money in action. I can accomplish the same thing by turning odds off at any time, but using a made point as the random event to decrease the amount at risk, even if it's only for a roll or two, works for me.
3) Getting the odds bet back if the shooter rolls a 7 is akin to getting back a tax return, although you may still end up with a loss on a come out 7, a return feels better than not getting anything back.
WongBo
WongBo
Joined: Feb 3, 2012
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February 27th, 2012 at 9:38:36 AM permalink
The come odds don't have a house edge so by leaving the come odds off on a come out,
you are actually weighting your bets with a house edge more in the houses favor.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief. - Proverb.
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
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February 27th, 2012 at 10:24:26 AM permalink
Quote: Ask the Wizard-craps


I have heard it said that with one come bet a player should call off the odds on a come out roll, but with two or more the player should leave them on. The rational is that with two or more on the odds of rolling one of the come points is greater than rolling a 7, but with one bet the player is more likely to win than lose.
SD from San Francisco, California


The player should always leave the odds on regardless of how many come bets are active. When considering the options looking at the probability of winning alone is not enough. Yes, with one come bet the odds of losing the come bet are greater than winning, however the potential win is greater than potential loss. The reason the player should always leave the odds on are because it is a bet with zero house edge. By turning the odds off the player is making the overall game more heavily weighted towards the bets with a house edge, thus increasing the overall ratio of the expected loss to the total amount bet.



The Wizard agrees with Wong-Bo (and me).
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
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February 27th, 2012 at 11:02:58 AM permalink
Quote: WongBo

The come odds don't have a house edge so by leaving the come odds off on a come out,
you are actually weighting your bets with a house edge more in the houses favor.


The edge is the same whether they are on or off at 0% HA anyway, as only the flat come point (and not its odds) are always alive, and cannot be shut off, exactly like a pass line bet that cannot be called off.
Since the odds are at 0% house edge themselves, its immaterial if they are on or off. The flat bets are always on, and provides the HA. You can 'keep them up" by playing an Any 7 or just paying for them, to keep them up if a seven is rolled, as a "put" bet.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
WongBo
WongBo
Joined: Feb 3, 2012
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February 27th, 2012 at 11:22:20 AM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

You can 'keep them up" by playing an Any 7 or just paying for them, to keep them up if a seven is rolled, as a "put" bet.



Not following.
Any seven is The worst of the sucker bets. HE 16.67...
Do you mean as a hedge? Bad strategy.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief. - Proverb.
soulhunt79
soulhunt79
Joined: Oct 8, 2010
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February 27th, 2012 at 11:55:24 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

ALL dealers should allow it. If they don't call the boxman / floorperson.



I agree that all dealers should allow it. It is never a big deal to me because I know when I'm keeping them ON I'm losing money. So if the casino doesn't want me to lose money, I'm not going to argue with them.

I actually think a few times when I've asked, it was the boxman that said no. The only reason I can see no being a good answer for them is if they don't have enough on/off chips to mark it for the cameras.
MrRalph
MrRalph
Joined: Jun 8, 2011
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February 27th, 2012 at 1:45:35 PM permalink
I believe Stanford Wong wrote in his book Wong on Dice that he would leave his place bet of the 6 and 8 working on the come out as long as the shooter was not setting for the 7 on the come out. Also if the shooter has come bets working even though he makes his point he will not be trying to throw a seven on the come out roll. There are more ways to throw the seven than any other number so I tend to leave them off on the come out but if I do leave them working it is only the place bet of the 6 and 8. In Scoblete's book he states the Captain never left anything working on the come out as that was his break in the action or something to that effect. This was prior to the Dice Control craze. I have never had a dealer question my wanting to leave them working.
RaleighCraps
RaleighCraps
Joined: Feb 20, 2010
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February 27th, 2012 at 2:10:32 PM permalink
Last year I started working my odds on the come out rolls. I usually place bet, so I don't always have come bets out there, and many times I may even forget I had come bets. Since I tip the dealers early in my play, the dealers are usually looking out for me. I will tell them that my odds are ALWAYS working, unless I say otherwise. The dealers always relay that information to the box. The box has directed me to be paid after one of my come bets hit on a come out roll, when the dealer realized he forgot to mark the odds as ON. And, I have also had my odds removed after a come out 7, even though the odds were not marked ON. I am fine with that, as it was my intention when I told the dealer.
Having the odds working had been a good deal for me. I got so tired of seeing my 4/10 come bets not get paid on the odds when that was set as the new point, so getting paid was nice. However, last September, I believe I lost around 50% of my odds bets on come out 7s, and this past trip last weekend set a new low for me.
I had come bets working on 4 come out rolls, and I lost my odds on 3 of the 4 due to come out 7s. One roll was $300 in odds(3 points), another was $150 (2 points) and the third was $80 (1 point) worth of odds bets wiped out, and the other one was just a wash. That did quite a bit of damage to me.

And, once again, I went into the craps mode. At one point on the come out roll, I threw a 12, 3, 3, 3, 3. That's right, five craps rolls in a row, and the last 4 were 3s. And speaking of streaks, on my first roll of the trip I opened up with 11,11,11. I consider myself to be a pretty disciplined craps player, avoiding the center action (save for an occasional hardway bet), however, my propensity to throw come out craps in streaks, is really messing with my mind.

Prior to the trip, I had the premonition that I would win some hard 10 bets, with a $25 bet. Now, as I stated, I rarely play the bet, and never for more than $5-$10. But I got that feeling late the first day, and threw $25 out for hard 10, when there was a 10 point. Two rolls later, 5-5. Nice $175 win, plus my PL odds( although I cheaped out at $50 odds). I made 2 other $25 hardways bets on the trip, again on the hard 10 (I lost the hardway on the soft 10, but got paid on the point), and a $25 hard 4, which also hit for me for another $175. I wish my premonition had been black chips :-(

Craps is STUPID. I play the smart bets and can't win, and come out way ahead on the stupid center table bets
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!

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