unconventional AP craps play

About a week back, in a thread about the craps at Casino Royale, I wrote about an unconventional way of turning the craps game at CR into a positive expectation game. No one believed me, so I posted my formula for view, and then deleted it in 15 minutes after some people had viewed it.

Tonight, I just killed an AP underground BJ game, so I'm a little sad, and in a contemplative AP mood.

So I've decided to write about another one of my AP craps plays. You can do this too! I'm going to give specific instructions.

In Shreveport, at the Horseshoe, where i usually play craps when I go to Shreveport, every once in a while, there is a multimillionaire who likes to play craps. The dealers call him the "kicker" because he will literally kick the hell out of the table and break the drink glasses when he goes on a losing streak. The 'Shoe banned him about 5 years ago when he broke one of their tables. So he went over to the El Dorado. Well, the Shoe figured that since he was routinely losing a million playing craps, they would invite him back and let him kick whatever table he wanted (if you don't believe me, call the Horseshoe in Shreveport and verify this guy).

The thing about this guy is that he didn't mind playing with the $5 players, as long as he had his nook of the table to himself, and as long as no one on the table bet on the Dont or the DC (he was big whale on table, so he forbid anyone from betting Dark).

Here is my AP. I found out that he was very superstitious. So I would buy in, play the pass for $5 with $500 odds. If I made two points in a row, I would say "I wanna pass the dice", and then I would pass the dice. This sent the Kicker crazy! I would tell him that I felt lucky, but I was already up, and didn't want to lose my winnings. he would then toss me a black to continue shooting. Every time I would win something, and if it coincided with him winning something, I would declare that I was afraid to shoot (don't say that you don't feel lucky). He would then keep feeding me blacks to shoot. Voila, positive expectation craps game.

I thought of this AP play when I saw, once, at Caesars, a whale throwing a lady a black chip everytime she would roll a horn.

I routinely do this when I see high rollers, and they are playing at standard tables (meaning tables where whales are co-mingling with the common folk). It will not work if you directly tell a whale, "Pay me to shoot". They will just tell you to fuck off or they just won't say anything and let you pass the dice. You have to impliedly soft sell it by saying, "i'm scared to shoot" AFTER you make a couple of points. don't say that you feel unlucky, as you want to hint that you are feeling lucky but that you're just scared. Also, they have to be playing at a nonVIP table, because the chips (whether red or black, or whatever), that they toss you won't be significant enough if you're forced to bet at VIP levels.

Do it, and you are going to be shocked at how many tips you get to shoot. Heck, I do this even when I'm playing with regular nonwhales, as often you will find a guy who'll toss you some chips to shoot. If you ever see a guy betting $5 with $500 odds, and then he passes the dice because he's scared, after 2 made points, that's probably me!

That's a good one.
I wish we had saps like that around here.

Those people are delusional. Interesting story, thanks for the read.

I was playing Pai Gow in Missouri a couple of years back with this extremely drunk guy that was trying to bet over the $500 table max. (He said he was a former NHL player, and looked like one). He was winning a ton, probably up around 10-15K for the night.

The laws in Missouri specifically did not allow for you to buy in for more than $500 every 2 hours, so to maintain that, there was absolutely no passing of chips. (The laws have been changed now)

Every couple of hands he'd try to pass my wife and I a $100 chip to bet, and he said we could keep the winnings. And the dealer kept telling him no over and over again.

I hate Missouri.

Talking about missed opportunities...

A few weeks back in Council Bluffs I was playing Pai Gow Poker at Harrah's (the smallest and most understaffed of the three casinos in CB). I was getting my a** handed to me; I'm not sure I could describe how much, and I wouldn't be exaggerating. The TCP table was hot as heck though, with 6-card bonuses hitting all night. Someone earlier had just hit a Royal in diamonds (with the sixth card being the 6-diamonds, one away from the LV and AC Super Royal for 1 million, though they don't have the bet yet). A guy sits down, playing by himself. He went on a run I've never seen before... I'm telling you, the guy could do NO WRONG! He hit at least 5 6-card hands in a row.

He got up to the max bet on the 6-card hand and Pairs Plus and was betting the minimum on the back, because ironically he was losing that a lot. A guy sits down at the table, buys in for $100, and the original guy throws him a black chip. His run ended, and the guy left up, easily $2000 richer. I'd have taken that black chip, said I'll let you play, and get the heck out!

When I saw the thread title, linking AP to craps, I started thinking, "Oh, shit. Here we go again..."

But I was laughing halfway thru that story, and, guite frankly, plan on tucking that idea away for the day it may be useful. :)

On the flip side, I wonder what Dan The Ethics Man thinks of that play....

Had something similar happen to me in 3CP while everyone insisted I play the pairplus and 6 Card bonus bets. Every so often the guy I was chatting it up with to my right would throw out a pair of reds for my PP and 6 Card bets.

Not quite the $100 you're talking about, but I was playing $5 per hand, so tripling my bet without risking any more of my own money was a nice surprise.

Enjoyed the story, thanks for sharing.

25 years ago, i was part of a foursome that went to Vegas on a 'junket'. We were to be there for 5 days, and each of us had to play at least 20 hours to qualify for our comped rooms and food. There was a steep penalty if we didnt. We were given cards that we had to hand in to a pit boss, and they would fill in how many hours we played. My ex and I had no problem, as we both were basic strategy BJ players, and hit our 20 hour requirement after 2 days. My friend also had no problem. But his wife was not a gambler, and she had to meet the requirement, too. So she went to a craps table, and started betting $5 on the passline. No odds. No numbers. I came over to socialize and saw she had odds behind her passline bet, and thought perhaps she got the gambling bug. She told me that since apparently she was rolling well, a man at the table was putting those chips there for her! He was betting hundreds to thousands per roll, and was giving her free odds ($15 -$25) when she was rolling. She won a few hundred dollars during this session.

Quote: FinsRule

I was playing Pai Gow in Missouri a couple of years back with this extremely drunk guy that was trying to bet over the $500 table max. (He said he was a former NHL player, and looked like one). He was winning a ton, probably up around 10-15K for the night.

The laws in Missouri specifically did not allow for you to buy in for more than $500 every 2 hours, so to maintain that, there was absolutely no passing of chips. (The laws have been changed now)

Every couple of hands he'd try to pass my wife and I a $100 chip to bet, and he said we could keep the winnings. And the dealer kept telling him no over and over again.

I hate Missouri.

Funny, after I posted my other response, I remember the day they got rid of the loss limits. Everybody at all the tables was so happy to be passing chips. People were playing each other bonuses like crazy, and money was going from person to person, simply because they could. It went on for about a month, but I think it's tamed a bit since then.