short roll
February 12th, 2012 at 4:16:39 PM
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I was playing craps at the Fremont last week and saw a shooter have one die slip out of his hand while throwing the dice. One die made it all the way down the table to the far wall, but the other only travelled about two feet and did not even make it to the prop bets area of the table. This was allowed to stand as a good roll. I have never before seen a roll that short be allowed to count. Is there a standardized rule for how far the dice have to travel to be considered a valid roll?
February 12th, 2012 at 4:46:14 PM
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I'm sure you're familiar with the "standardized rule" - dice in one hand, must arc, strike table, hit the back wall, blah, blah, blah. But under that, dealers shouldn't a) unnecessarily hold up a game or b) make someone feel stupid. If it was a legitimate mistake, the box should be able to make the call that, whoopsie, that's not a proper roll, but we'll let it slide this time. Just try to hit it the next time because we can't allow it in the future.
So either the box was doing well or he was really lazy lol. You be the judge.
So either the box was doing well or he was really lazy lol. You be the judge.
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
February 12th, 2012 at 4:51:34 PM
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I had a roll like that once. Yeah it was a roll.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
February 12th, 2012 at 5:45:05 PM
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Box man's call at all times for all reasons. I've had box men give me three successive warnings about a short roll or a not hitting the back wall. Its their job to judge. They knew I was tired not trying some fancy roll, so they let it go. As with almost any roll, some will like the call some won't, but its the box man's decision even if the shooter feels the box is an idiot to accept it as a roll.
February 23rd, 2012 at 1:46:21 PM
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Yes it's a roll, because it's a legitimate effort. You can usually tell the difference between a ligitimate effort in hitting the back wall, and purposely falling short. Once we had a new player that picked up the dice and just lobbed them just past the prop box. We called the roll but didn't hesitate in telling him he must hit the back wall. There was a no problem after that.
What I find weird, is I was playing at a casino once and a guy set the dice on the table, and was nudging them forward, and the stickperson told him to only nudge them backward, because that could be considered a roll. I thought that was ridiculous because he obviously wasn't attempting at making a legitimate roll, he was just trying to find the right numbers for them to be on before throwing.
What I find weird, is I was playing at a casino once and a guy set the dice on the table, and was nudging them forward, and the stickperson told him to only nudge them backward, because that could be considered a roll. I thought that was ridiculous because he obviously wasn't attempting at making a legitimate roll, he was just trying to find the right numbers for them to be on before throwing.
February 23rd, 2012 at 1:54:27 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearI had a roll like that once. Yeah it was a roll.
If the boxman or stickman says it is so.
Often, usually in fact, a dropped die when the other die hits the back wall is called a "no roll" immediately in many places.
The stickman and the boxman run the game.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
February 23rd, 2012 at 1:56:42 PM
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Really? That seems like an incredibly easy way to cheat!Quote: ewjones080What I find weird, is I was playing at a casino once and a guy set the dice on the table, and was nudging them forward, and the stickperson told him to only nudge them backward, because that could be considered a roll.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
February 27th, 2012 at 4:17:59 PM
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Yeah, and once a die went off the table, I picked it up and set it on the rail next to the empty base, since there wasn't a box person. The same stickwoman that told that player not to nudge forward told me not to put the die there. Seemed kinda silly to me. I told her I could pretty much do anything with that die short of walking out the door with it, who cares where I put it so long as it's not interfering with the game.
February 27th, 2012 at 4:44:53 PM
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I kinda agree with the dealer on that one.
Dealers generally are not allowed to reach onto the rail for any reason.
Dealers generally are not allowed to reach onto the rail for any reason.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
February 27th, 2012 at 4:59:02 PM
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Last week at my local casino, there was a short roll that was a seven (out), and the dealers called it a "no roll". I tipped them. Of course, the shooter rolled a seven two shots later.
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You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
February 27th, 2012 at 7:25:10 PM
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The reason for the back wall rule is to prevent dice sliding, a cheating technique where the dice are set, and slid down the table without tumbling. If one die hits the back wall, that would take care of any possibility of cheating.
February 27th, 2012 at 11:22:01 PM
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a couple of things:
first, short rolls are called "good" often when it appears the short roll was an accident or was an odd event. do it often and they'll get on your back for it. do a short roll while setting your dice and they'll hit you like a ton of bricks.
it's a bitch when you accidentally have a short roll and its a 7-out.
even with dice sliding, hitting the back wall does not necessarily make a difference. in fact a good dice mechanic can slide the dice right to the back wall and hit and even bounce off the back wall. This is why the "rule" is that dice must fly in the air, hit the table at least once and then hit the back wall.
for the most part, every call of a short roll at a dice table is arbitrary. sometimes theyre good and sometimes theyre not.
first, short rolls are called "good" often when it appears the short roll was an accident or was an odd event. do it often and they'll get on your back for it. do a short roll while setting your dice and they'll hit you like a ton of bricks.
it's a bitch when you accidentally have a short roll and its a 7-out.
even with dice sliding, hitting the back wall does not necessarily make a difference. in fact a good dice mechanic can slide the dice right to the back wall and hit and even bounce off the back wall. This is why the "rule" is that dice must fly in the air, hit the table at least once and then hit the back wall.
for the most part, every call of a short roll at a dice table is arbitrary. sometimes theyre good and sometimes theyre not.
February 28th, 2012 at 5:38:12 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearI kinda agree with the dealer on that one.
Dealers generally are not allowed to reach onto the rail for any reason.
Well yes, but she wasn't the one grabbing the die and checking it. The "floating" box person as they call it, the floor watching the other games would come by in the next 30 seconds or so to get the die.
October 19th, 2013 at 9:47:40 AM
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If both dice come out of there hand at the same time and go forward it's a roll
October 19th, 2013 at 10:40:03 AM
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Quote: SvnOutIf both dice come out of there hand at the same time and go forward it's a roll
Not necessarily. Depends on what the box rules.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
October 19th, 2013 at 2:19:04 PM
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On my way out of town after G2E, I stopped at Gold Coast to pick up my souvenir chip.
While there, I had a short roll.
As I was throwing, one die slipped out of my hand. Although I couldn't react fast enough to not throw the other die, I did say "No roll?" prior to either die stopping. The boxman said nothing until the dice stopped. Seven out.
I protested, stating that the one die didn't even make it past the middle of the table. He said as long as they have forward motion, it's a roll.
While there, I had a short roll.
As I was throwing, one die slipped out of my hand. Although I couldn't react fast enough to not throw the other die, I did say "No roll?" prior to either die stopping. The boxman said nothing until the dice stopped. Seven out.
I protested, stating that the one die didn't even make it past the middle of the table. He said as long as they have forward motion, it's a roll.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
October 19th, 2013 at 4:00:14 PM
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He is correct. Its "bad form" but an acceptable roll. And the decision is NOT made on the effect of the result ... you could have been on the Don'ts.... its still a valid roll. If you persist in having "finger fumbles" the most they can do is say "Thank you for your efforts, please pass the dice now". They can warn, cajole, insult, beg, plead.... but its either valid or invalid and that is not based on the fact that a die fell from your hand prematurely. If it strikes a pretty girl and bounces off her sweater its valid, if it gets caught up briefly in the wooly sweater so that its momentum clearly changes, then its not valid. It fell from your hand but had forward motion... its valid. It may not make the shooter or the table in general happy... but there was no interference with the roll. It was just a bad roll. Bad form and bad result. Well.... the Box only looks at the form and physics involved... not the effect on the bettors or the house.Quote: DJTeddyBear
I protested, stating that the one die didn't even make it past the middle of the table. He said as long as they have forward motion, it's a roll.
October 19th, 2013 at 4:04:10 PM
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" the Box only looks at the form and physics involved... not the effect on the bettors or the house."
Evidently the Box is not manned by a human.
Evidently the Box is not manned by a human.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
October 19th, 2013 at 4:36:11 PM
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I've seen plenty of 'No rolls' get called even though there was forward motion of the dice. It's pretty rare since virtually all players make a good faith attempt to hit the back wall, but 'forward motion' is not set in stone. In fact, I saw a dealer call 'No roll' just last weekend at the Wynn.
With that said, everytime I've witnessed such a call, the box/stick did so before the dice landed, as to prevent any sticky situations with the players. One time, a seven ended up being thrown, and the players let out a sigh of relief...lol
With that said, everytime I've witnessed such a call, the box/stick did so before the dice landed, as to prevent any sticky situations with the players. One time, a seven ended up being thrown, and the players let out a sigh of relief...lol
Fighting BS one post at a time!
October 19th, 2013 at 6:36:43 PM
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At CZR tables, there is no box at all, human or otherwise.Quote: Buzzard" the Box only looks at the form and physics involved... not the effect on the bettors or the house." Evidently the Box is not manned by a human.
October 20th, 2013 at 7:01:30 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearAs I was throwing, one die slipped out of my hand
If there is anything the shooter is doing to make that more likely, that person should make corrections.
I was doing something sloppy for a long time, but finally realized that this gives the box the chance to see if a short roll is a '7' or not, which he might do especially if your antics bother him, to teach you a lesson maybe. I have vowed to make sure this house-favoring stuff gets cut out as much as possible with my own rolls.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
