Holy Craps!
Thread Rating:
It is pretty cool because the minimum bet was $1 and you got paid odds to the penny (so a placed bet on a 6 got paid odds even though you only paid $1).
I started with $15 and was able to play a very LONG time. It's not as fun as the real craps table, but it is an interesting version of craps and if you like to play with low bankroll, it fits perfectly. I ended up leaving with $60 after about 2 hours.
The problem with casino's that have $1 minimum (like Joker's Wild in Henderson, NV) is you still have to place minimum $6 (on the 6/8 for example) to get the odds, so it doesn't really help you much if you are trying to stay at the table for a long time without loosing a ton.
It's funny that you should use Joker's Wild as your example.Quote: slackyhackyThe problem with casino's that have $1 minimum (like Joker's Wild in Henderson, NV) is you still have to place minimum $6 (on the 6/8 for example) to get the odds, so it doesn't really help you much if you are trying to stay at the table for a long time without loosing a ton.
Unless it changed (I was there this past October), they have 25¢ chips on the table. You can place the 6/8 in units of $1.50 and get paid $1.75, etc.
Quite frankly, I wish more casinos had 25¢ chips on the craps table. I wouldn't care if the table minimum was as much as $15, but let me press in fractional units!
On the way back from Hoover Dam, before getting to Joker's Wild, I stopped at Hacienda and RailRoad pass. They have $1 minimum's, but no 25¢ chips.
Okay. Despite the low temperatures here, my shoes are off and I'm ready to do some math.Quote: DJTeddyBearI wouldn't care if the table minimum was as much as $15, but let me press in fractional units!
Just WHY do you want to press in fractional units? And what is a fraction unit anyway?
To be fair, I kinda made up the term "Fractional units." But I've used it in many threads on this subject, as well as in conversation at the craps table.
This was the first time anyone was ever unsure of what I meant. Maybe it's too early in the morning for ya....
Is that the one where there is this plastic bubble that surrounds a set of robotic arms that toss the dice and the players use electronic terminals at the table's edge.Quote: slackyhackyIn Gold Rush (on I15 just south of Vegas), they got this craps machine that I have only seen in Macau.
The "Electronic" ones I have played include:
1.) Completely virtual dice (just depicted on a video screen)
2.) Plexiglass tube with large dice on a bouncing surface. (The dice "pop" and then a camera relays the outcome to the betting terminals)
DJ is correct. Joker's Wild does have $0.25 chips. I play there every trip to Vegas, although last trip I got destroyed. Usually I can play for a long time with a small bankroll: $1+$10x odds pass/come every throw, press in additional $1+$10 units. Make $0.25 bets for the dealers with $2.50 max odds :)
Actually, all the casinos on that little stretch of Boulder Highway: Hacienda, Railroad Pass, Club Fortune and Joker's Wild, have $1 minimums. Fiesta is pricing themselves out of the market with their $5 minimums. They must think they are the damn Bellagio! (They do have dealer extraordinaire Dan Lubin).
I've played two "live" versions of electronic craps. One is Organic Craps by Interblock. The other is Shoot to Win Craps by Aruze. Both use the "pop-o-matic" version of dice. Minimums are usually $1-$5. Odds multiples vary, as does whether you earn/redeem slot club points on the machine. (Most casinos say no).
(By the way, the third black die in the second picture is so the machine also has Sic Bo functionality).
Quote: FleaStiffIs that the one where there is this plastic bubble that surrounds a set of robotic arms that toss the dice and the players use electronic terminals at the table's edge.
No arm, just a big bubble with two large dice that get 'rolled' with a pop mechanism like in the game Trouble or Sorry
Quote: DJTeddyBearIt's funny that you should use Joker's Wild as your example.
Unless it changed (I was there this past October), they have 25¢ chips on the table. You can place the 6/8 in units of $1.50 and get paid $1.75, etc.
Quite frankly, I wish more casinos had 25¢ chips on the craps table. I wouldn't care if the table minimum was as much as $15, but let me press in fractional units!
On the way back from Hoover Dam, before getting to Joker's Wild, I stopped at Hacienda and RailRoad pass. They have $1 minimum's, but no 25¢ chips.
I can understand why .25 cent chips are not common. The cost of producing them is pretty close to a quarter, and when folks pocket them (like me), it can add up pretty quickly.
I'm sure the other casinos had a lot of 25¢ chips when they decided to pull them.
And if not, why not just use quarters?
As I understand it, the 25¢ game is called a "bird" game, because of the eagle on the back of quarters.
(OK, the older quarters, before the mint started the State Quarter program....)
Quote: DJTeddyBearQuite frankly, I wish more casinos had 25¢ chips on the craps table. I wouldn't care if the table minimum was as much as $15, but let me press in fractional units!
If you don't mind high limits, why can't you just press in standard $5 or $6 units. If we introduce 25-cent chips, we'll eventually introduce 5- and 1-cent chips and that just slows down the payout on an already over-populated table.
Quote: slackyhackyIn Gold Rush (on I15 just south of Vegas), they got this craps machine that I have only seen in Macau.
It is pretty cool because the minimum bet was $1 and you got paid odds to the penny (so a placed bet on a 6 got paid odds even though you only paid $1).
I started with $15 and was able to play a very LONG time. It's not as fun as the real craps table, but it is an interesting version of craps and if you like to play with low bankroll, it fits perfectly. I ended up leaving with $60 after about 2 hours.
The problem with casino's that have $1 minimum (like Joker's Wild in Henderson, NV) is you still have to place minimum $6 (on the 6/8 for example) to get the odds, so it doesn't really help you much if you are trying to stay at the table for a long time without losing a ton.
I prefer $5, but they are getting harder to find. I'll play $10 without hesitation. $15 is trouble because if I don't make money off the first or second shooter, I'm already too far behind and will need to quit. The one and only time I played at a $25 table was a few months back at the Sands in PA. The three $15 tables were packed, while the $25 table had 4 players. So I stepped up. Fortunatly, I got in on a hot streak.Quote: NowTheSerpentIf you don't mind high limits, why can't you just press in standard $5 or $6 units. If we introduce 25-cent chips, we'll eventually introduce 5- and 1-cent chips and that just slows down the payout on an already over-populated table.
Assume I'm at a $10 table. I've got $12 each on 6/8. If it hits and I want to press it, I have to put back half of what I won. And I typically press in pairs, meaning I'm putting it all back.
So instead, I don't press at all after the first win. Sometimes not at all until two wins.
But I also know that the casino would rather see me pressing it sooner.
If I could press in $1.50 units, I'd do it after the first win. And press it $3.00 after the second and third win, and $4.50 after the next. Then I'd press in multiples of $6...
#1: $0.25 chips definitely slow the pace of the game, and Joker's Wild definitely allows you to to generally play the same way as any $5 minimum table with 1/4 or 1/5 the normal amount (1/5 for the line bet and 1/4 for a hardway and other normally $1 minimum bets). There are no limitations at all on payouts and all payouts are made to the nearest thing possible. For example, if you make a $1.25 place bet on the four it pays $2.25. Five units of $0.25 instead of five units of $1.00 pays nine units of $0.25 instead of nine units of $1.00.
#2: The new electronic craps games are not all that bad. They tend to attract a different kind of player, and the fact that they pay fractions definitely helps keep the game moving while still being fair to the lower edges on all the bets.
#3: Nothing will ever replace a true craps table, but it's nice to have a machine with such a low house edge enabling you to play longer for less money on average than a typical low-edge video. IE: this offers a lower edge than electronic roulette without requiring the player to think much or make too many mistakes like a video poker machine with a low edge.
#4: these dice bubbles are already looking rather worn in some places. I'm curious how they will look in a year's time or how likely they are to mechanical failure.
I like the Aruze game the best myself, but I haven't played either one very much. I'm curious about other people's opinions about these games compared to real craps games!
I would not have guessed that one.Quote: TIMSPEEDThe one they have in Reno is the Aruze "Shoot To Win", only at Eldorado.
The Eldo has the best Dice dealers in Reno IMO and is a nice joint.
Well, it is connected at the hip with CC.
(FYI: I dealt dice at Boomtown in Verde and Cal Neva in Reno, not Sinatra's at North Shore)
I played the "Shoot To Win" craps slot machine at Gold Strike in Jean over Super Bowl weekend.
3 different sessions and cashed out over $800. $1 min bets with max $1000. Not bad.
It seemed fair. It was fun. Of course, I was winning. I would have felt differently had I been losing. That is a real craps player for you.
Bummer you can not see others bets.
I really liked the leaning die that would have been called a 7out but was a no roll and the machine re-popped the dice to a winner 9.
Quote:Quite frankly, I wish more casinos had 25¢ chips on the craps table. I wouldn't care if the table minimum was as much as $15, but let me press in fractional units!
They would, but most casino chips COST about $1 unless nexgens are in the house... then is 50 cents.
And no publicity about it. Wonderful.Quote: klimate10The crazy part...the machine has 1000x odds!
With a $5 min bet to $500 max.Quote: KeyserThey now have this machine in the Bellagio.
Gold Strike in Jean is a $1 min to $1000 max bet.
The fact that the $1 and $2 place 6 & 8 pays $1.17 to $1 actually lowers the house edge from 1/66 to 3/220
or 0.013636... from 0.01515...
(a 1.16 to 1 payoff results in a 1/55 or 0.01818... house edge)
I have only seen double odds on these machines.
As others have said, I really have no desire to play any craps game that doesn't allow you to physically shoot the dice, but I figured I would give it a shot just to see how it works.
First off the 2x odds is lame. LAME. It's 0 edge for either side, why not let you crank it up? Second I found the touchscreen to be flaky. I was playing by myself, dark side with DP and DC, and accidentally put my lay odds for one of the DC bets on the wrong spot (I think it was a place, or place to lose or something). I tried to clear just that bet, but ended up pressing the "clear all" button. Since DP and DC bets can be taken down at any time, it took down all of my bets! Which I could not of course put back up, since the point was already established. At this point I was pissed and cashed out, and just to make sure I had an extra bad experience, my ticket got jammed in the machine and a tech had to come over and open the machine up and retrieve it for me.
When every casino in town has at least 1 craps table open 24 hours, I don't see the point. You don't even generate comps from these bloody things! Bizarre to me that these machines are catching on. I guess people really just don't want to ask questions, or they really just want to be able to sit down.
I was not disappointed and found the touch screen with Help sections very user friendly.Quote: AcesAndEightsI played one of the Aruze "Shoot to Win" games at NYNY on my recent Vegas trip, and I was even more disappointed than I thought I would be.
Since all craps players are whiners IMO, you only need to look into the mirror and find your problem.
I had the feeling I was actually controlling the dice without touching them. This was even after playing for about 15 hours on the machine.Quote: AcesAndEightsAs others have said, I really have no desire to play any craps game that doesn't allow you to physically shoot the dice, but I figured I would give it a shot just to see how it works.
AgreeQuote: AcesAndEightsFirst off the 2x odds is lame. LAME. It's 0 edge for either side, why not let you crank it up?
Again, IMO you caused your own problem.Quote: AcesAndEightsSecond I found the touchscreen to be flaky. I was playing by myself, dark side with DP and DC, and accidentally put my lay odds for one of the DC bets on the wrong spot (I think it was a place, or place to lose or something). I tried to clear just that bet, but ended up pressing the "clear all" button. Since DP and DC bets can be taken down at any time, it took down all of my bets! Which I could not of course put back up, since the point was already established.
At this point I was pissed and cashed out, and just to make sure I had an extra bad experience, my ticket got jammed in the machine and a tech had to come over and open the machine up and retrieve it for me.
I found it so easy to remove just one bet.
But you have to do it the way the terminal allows.
IMO, Simple stuff for most, for whiners, a challenge.
One can just touch and slide the bet down to the chip stacks except for a number bet. Once you hit a number this screen pops up and it is all layed out.
IMO, You must have been not paying much attention when making your lay odds bets. No one is perfect, but the screen is very easy to use.
I do not like that fact that one can not make across or inside place bets. you have to go to each number page for that. I sent that suggestion to STW and lets see if they like the idea.
The below screen pops up after you touch the six box
I use my players card for this game and got great point totals. It is always open, no Dealer attitudes to deal with, no late bets, mid-game buy-ins that slow the game down, and it averaged about 103 rolls per hour.Quote: AcesAndEightsWhen every casino in town has at least 1 craps table open 24 hours, I don't see the point. You don't even generate comps from these bloody things! Bizarre to me that these machines are catching on. I guess people really just don't want to ask questions, or they really just want to be able to sit down.
I could sit for hours, free drinks and after an 8 hour session, feel refreshed enough to go dinner and dancing.
Yes, I whine at the Craps table just like all the rest but not at this machine.
I had a fun time playing this machine at NYNY, MGM, Bellagio and Gold Strike in Jean.Quote: AcesAndEightsSecond I found the touchscreen to be flaky.
I was playing by myself, dark side with DP and DC, and accidentally put my lay odds for one of the DC bets on the wrong spot (I think it was a place, or place to lose or something). I tried to clear just that bet, but ended up pressing the "clear all" button.
You made me feel better. I did the exact same thing.
I had touched the cancel button after I touched a bet that I wanted to remove and nothing happened.
First you have to touch the cancel button then touch the bet to remove.
The 20 second count down to make bets was down to 1 second, so I was in a hurry and hit the wrong button, the all cancel button. The next roll was a 7 out.
I learned the hard way! But, now I know.
Quote: 7crapsI was not disappointed and found the touch screen with Help sections very user friendly.
Since all craps players are whiners IMO, you only need to look into the mirror and find your problem.
Well to be fair I went into it looking for a problem, since I already knew I wouldn't like it. So I was not exactly giving it an impartial review.
Quote:Again, IMO you caused your own problem.
I found it so easy to remove just one bet.
But you have to do it the way the terminal allows.
IMO, Simple stuff for most, for whiners, a challenge.
In general I am very tech-savvy, but in the past I have had problems with hitting the right spot on touch screens. Maybe my fingertips are an abnormal shape or something, lol. Also, I was there about 5 in the morning after a long blackjack session, so my brain wasn't exactly in tip-top shape.
Quote:I use my players card for this game and got great point totals.
That's cool, I guess it depends on the casino. The machine I was on at NYNY (MLife) had a little sticker on every terminal that essentially said "NO POINTS" in a lot more words.
Quote:It is always open, no Dealer attitudes to deal with, no late bets, mid-game buy-ins that slow the game down, and it averaged about 103 rolls per hour.
I could sit for hours, free drinks and after an 8 hour session, feel refreshed enough to go dinner and dancing.
In my experience/opinion, it's much more likely to find an entertaining dealer that makes my overall experience at the table better, than it is to find an incompetent or annoying dealer. The vast majority are in between, serviceable but nothing special. But it seems like the outliers are more in the positive direction.
Also I just remembered one other thing I didn't like about the game - when you're the only one playing, the delay before you can shoot the dice is annoying. I had all my bets placed and was ready to go, and still had to wait 10 or 20 seconds before I could hit the button.
I think the moral of the story is, "to each, his own." I personally won't be returning to any of these machines. I like the personal interaction and camaraderie of a live a craps table too much. But if you like it, enjoy it!
Quote: KeyserThey now have this machine in the Bellagio.
Quote: klimate10The crazy part...the machine has 1000x odds!
Quote: guido111With a $5 min bet to $500 max.
Does this mean someone could bet $500 DP, then lay up to $1,000,000 odds if the point were 4 or 10?
I saw lots of personal interaction and camaraderie between all the players at the machine. The new players were helped by more experienced ones.Quote: AcesAndEightsI think the moral of the story is, "to each, his own." I personally won't be returning to any of these machines. I like the personal interaction and camaraderie of a live a craps table too much. But if you like it, enjoy it!
What I really liked was everyone playing was friendly, offering help and advise when asked, one silent guy finally smiled after a $20 buy-in and said he hit the Yo11 that rolled 4 times in 8 rolls with $5 on it each time. That really got the players excited.
There was never:
1) a die thrown off the table
2) a disputed dice call. (One time when a die was leaning against the edge of the platform and it was hard to tell what the number was, it looked to be a 7out to me, the machine just re-popped the dice and it was a winner. Try that on a live craps table!)
3) a late bet that made the shooter hesitate and stop his throw
4) someone's hand hitting the dice because they did not know where the dice were
5) a mid-game buy-in never slowed the game down
6) a stick change that always brings a 7 out
7) a flea reaching into his pants to scratch his crack, then using the same hand to grab a chip and throw it to the dealer to place the 4
I could go on, but 7 is my lucky number
1.5 thumbs up for Shoot to Win Craps
(the other .5 thumb is waiting for the across place bet button)
I hope I don't live to see the inevitable replacement of real cards and dice with video games.
Better yet, I hope I do live long enough to see that millions of people were ripped off by a crooked video game.
Quote: WongBoI get so disgusted when I read about players who prefer to play a video game version of a casino game.
I hope I don't live to see the inevitable replacement of real cards and dice with video games.
Better yet, I hope I do live long enough to see that millions of people were ripped off by a crooked video game.
Computers can only be crooked if programmed that way...
PEOPLE can be crooked at will...
Real Dice, you make your own bets
Here is a video link
Shoot To Win Craps Video
I played the exact machine at MGM last month.
A Fair game as far as I can tell
I just have a personal preference for the little handheld variety.
But I also prefer real paper playing cards and actual casino chips.
Call me old fashioned.
check out the guys horn bet at the 12:07 mark in the video. ClassicQuote: 7crapsShoot to Win Craps is not a video game like video poker is.
Real Dice, you make your own bets
Here is a video link
Shoot To Win Craps Video
Hey right. Some Craps players do not like any dealers or any other players.Quote: TIMSPEEDI think the BEST part..is not having to deal with dealers and other players
This can give one the best of both worlds.
A dark side player is flying under the radar.
Except on a 7 out the horn still sounds and his light in front of his terminal flashes showing that he won something. But most do not even pay attention to it.
Good thing we got on a hot roll. No wonder he was being comped.
Update from Gold Strike in Jean yesterday slackyhacky.Quote: slackyhackyIn Gold Rush (on I15 just south of Vegas), they got this craps machine that I have only seen in Macau.
It is pretty cool because the minimum bet was $1 and you got paid odds to the penny (so a placed bet on a 6 got paid odds even though you only paid $1).
slacky did you take them for some BIG $$$?
Gone is the $1 to $1000 bets.
They have gone to being a low roller joint.
Must have been my $338 Field that hit on a 12 that rolled a few months back.
(I was not the shooter, a hot and young female was. She could have been under 21, no one asked to see her ID)
Now $1 to $500 total
(Caesars Palace is just $3 to $500)
Pass/DPass: $1 to $10
2X odds ($20 max)
Place and Buy $1 to $20 (Buy vig on win only as the Lays also)
Field: $1 to $10
Any Hop: $1 to $5 (this used to be max $100) includes the normal prop bets, 7, any craps, horn etc.
The STW Craps at Binion's Downtown is looking very worn out. Even the dice show some bad wear.
The Plaza also has the STWCraps. $1 to $250, looks very new.
Even El Cortez has one also.
I did not write down the limits there. (I was cashing in my $1k 25c VP Royal ticket before dinner)
The Flamingo still has theirs as does the Bellagio. Real low limits per bet at the Flamingo.
These $500 table max just ruins a parlay run on a few numbers. Too easy to max out your total bets.
The game is still kick back, sit down in a nice chair and the cocktail servers still walk by every few minutes.
Other updates?
$1-$500, 5x odds. Double the 2&12 on the Field. This is where I hit my big win that I wrote about in my blog. As an aside, don't bettors should stay away from these machines. You can only lay 5x your bet on don't odds, which is not true "5x" odds. (Which would be 10x/7.5x/6x).Quote: 7crapsEven El Cortez has one also.
I did not write down the limits there.
Good info for the don't players.Quote: teddys$1-$500, 5x odds. Double the 2&12 on the Field. As an aside, don't bettors should stay away from these machines. You can only lay 5x your bet on don't odds, which is not true "5x" odds (which would be 10x/7.5x/6x).
The company is Asian, I am sure Craps is at the bottom of their list knowledge-wise. The game shows it.
No press buttons for place bets.
ShuffleMaster lost out on this market currently, maybe they can do better!
Yes I do remember that part.
Next month I hope to survey them all and post all the bet limits as every $1 to $500 game is different when it comes to max $$ per bet.
Here is Caesars Palace
$3 to $500 total
(I did not play there and do not believe the $1 min bets that was shown on the pay screen)
The max bets are just pathetic.
Maybe to cut down on the number of W2Gs given out for the machine.
Pass/Don't: $1 to $250 (WTF at CP!)
2X odds
Hardways $1 to $100
Field $1 to $300 ( I have seen many $500 and higher field bets at CP tables)
Hop Bets $1 to $30
Place bets $1 to $250!!
7: $1 to $200
Any Craps: $1 to $50
Horn $1 to $30 !!!
$1 to $125 for Yo 11
$125 max C&E
Quote: 7crapsUpdate from Gold Strike in Jean yesterday slackyhacky.
slacky did you take them for some BIG $$$?
Gone is the $1 to $1000 bets.
They have gone to being a low roller joint.
Must have been my $338 Field that hit on a 12 that rolled a few months back.
(I was not the shooter, a hot and young female was. She could have been under 21, no one asked to see her ID)
Now $1 to $500 total
(Caesars Palace is just $3 to $500)
Pass/DPass: $1 to $10
2X odds ($20 max)
Place and Buy $1 to $20 (Buy vig on win only as the Lays also)
Field: $1 to $10
Any Hop: $1 to $5 (this used to be max $100) includes the normal prop bets, 7, any craps, horn etc.
The STW Craps at Binion's Downtown is looking very worn out. Even the dice show some bad wear.
The Plaza also has the STWCraps. $1 to $250, looks very new.
Even El Cortez has one also.
I did not write down the limits there. (I was cashing in my $1k 25c VP Royal ticket before dinner)
The Flamingo still has theirs as does the Bellagio. Real low limits per bet at the Flamingo.
These $500 table max just ruins a parlay run on a few numbers. Too easy to max out your total bets.
The game is still kick back, sit down in a nice chair and the cocktail servers still walk by every few minutes.
Other updates?
Ha. Just saw this. I bet your field bet didn't help.
