Keeping a don't come bet on the don't come after a point rolled

A few days ago at the craps table, a player walks up with a free play coupon for $25. After some discussion with the dealers about what bets he could use this on, he places it on the Don't come. The shooter rolls a 6, and the dealer asks if the player wants to keep the money on the don't come and try for a better number. He had some phrase he used that I can't recall (anyone?). This is obviously a bad play, as the player is giving up the best of it, and I was surprised at the dealer giving such bad advice. The

Has any one seen this, and know what phrase was used? The dealer made it sound like he was giving the player a great deal by letting him go for a different number, and the player took it. Worked out for him since the shooter then rolled a four, which is too bad as this player is going to walk away thinking the dealer did him a favor.

Quote: DrEntropy

A few days ago at the craps table, a player walks up with a free play coupon for $25. After some discussion with the dealers about what bets he could use this on, he places it on the Don't come. The shooter rolls a 6, and the dealer asks if the player wants to keep the money on the don't come and try for a better number. He had some phrase he used that I can't recall (anyone?). This is obviously a bad play, as the player is giving up the best of it, and I was surprised at the dealer giving such bad advice. The

Has any one seen this, and know what phrase was used? The dealer made it sound like he was giving the player a great deal by letting him go for a different number, and the player took it. Worked out for him since the shooter then rolled a four, which is too bad as this player is going to walk away thinking the dealer did him a favor.

Yes, Bad dealer, but some houses do encourage this type of action by their dice dealers.
The dealer might ask "do you want action on the 6?"

When I dealt and taught Dice last century it was normally "no action" by the player
and a GOOD dice dealer should say “No action behind the SIX, plays on the don’t come!”.
Most dealers just say " no action on the (number thrown)

real poor dealers will say just "no action" and could get caught by the player if the next roll is a 7 or 11 and the player yells he wanted NO ACTION. I have seen that happen on a few occasions when there was no box.

A great time to buy that DC for the alert craps player.

"No Action".
Often the dealers actually think it is a sensible thing to do. That a "Don't Player" is offered the option is good though. Most people on the Don't realize that a popular or more easily made point number is not quite the deal that betting a Seven will roll before an unpopular number such as 4 or 10.
Its mathematically unwise for the player to give up the deal he has but its often emotionally pleasing.
Don't think dealers always give the best advice.

Quote: FleaStiff

Don't think dealers always give the best advice.

So true. And some casinos encourage their dealers to do just that.

Quote: 7craps

So true. And some casinos encourage their dealers to do just that.

If I were some omniscient General Manager of a casino I would encourage this "no action" thing too, simply because its an example of giving the customer what they want. If the players are happier this way, so be it. Thats what that dumb wheel at the casino entrance is for: to provide some action to those who want it but are a bit timid and not quite so well informed.

Quote: 7craps

A great time to buy that DC for the alert craps player.

How does this usually go?

No action on the DC? Sure, the casino will allow it.

Anytime a casino lets the bettor do ANYTHING, it's in the casino's advantage for the bettor to do so.

This goes doubly so if the casino is actually encouraging it.


For the record, this also includes merely walking in the door...

Quote: odiousgambit

How does this usually go?

Since it's NOT in the casino's interest to allow a bystander to buy the bet, I assume that the bystander has to pay the bettor the value of the bet first. Then the bettor can tell the dealers to give it to the bystander.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Since it's NOT in the casino's interest to allow a bystander to buy the bet, I assume that the bystander has to pay the bettor the value of the bet first. Then the bettor can tell the dealers to give it to the bystander.

the expected value of the bet, or the face value of the bet?

would the pit boss have to OK this?

Quote: odiousgambit

the expected value of the bet, or the face value of the bet?

Since the bettor is just looking to cancel his DC and get his bet back, I'd say face value.

After all, if he realized the expected value, he'd leave the damn bet up!

Quote: odiousgambit

would the pit boss have to OK this?

Unsure.

Player may make any legal even-money bet with a voucher, as he sees fit. Pass, don't pass, and field. No props.

Player may bet both the pass and the don't pass if he wishes, - and any dealer comment about it is unwanted and unnecessary, - and I say this as a dice dealer. It is a legal combination of bets, period, end of story, unless a written stipulation is on the ticket.

I have seen players using vouchers to get gas money. Player locks in 50% of the value of the paper bet voucher that way.

He bets the paper $50 voucher (let's say) on the pass line, $25 (half of voucher value) on the don't pass, and $1 on the crap-12 prop bet, in case a 12 is rolled on the come-out and the don't pass pushes. He'll take down either $25 on any result other than a come-out 12, and $30 on a come-out 12 being rolled.

Into the gas tank it goes. WTH.

I've only bought a don't bet a few times, and in only one casino, in Milwaukee. Sometimes the crew didn't care, but once the dealer brought it to then box's attention, and the box vetoed it. From the house's standpoint, they had a guy withdrawing a bet in which he was the favorite, and the casino didn't want me getting it in the way.

Since then, I try to keep the transaction between me and the bonehead...

Quote: DJTeddyBear

No action on the DC? Sure, the casino will allow it.

Anytime a casino lets the bettor do ANYTHING, it's in the casino's advantage for the bettor to do so.

This goes doubly so if the casino is actually encouraging it.


For the record, this also includes merely walking in the door...

But they often do have rules that inadvertently help the player. For example, many places do not allow Double Downs on Blackjacks, which actually helps the player. Imagine if BJs weren't paid immediately (on a non-face) and the dealer went to the player and said "Double Down sir?" every time.

I made friends with a don't bet puller once; followed him around several casinos Downtown for an afternoon and made a fair bit of money. I got unlucky and didn't win nearly as much as I expected to but I still had huge +EV. The right way to do work that angle is:
1) When you find someone pulling don't bets and you want to buy them, move over to where they're playing. Otherwise the logistics is a nightmare.
2) Make it a simple deal:
a) You (after he pulls a don't point): "hey, how about I buy your bet from you the next time that happens?"
b) Them: "What do you mean"?
c) You (holding out a red chip or whatever the bet value is): "Next time your don't bet lands on a 6 or 8, leave it up and I'll give you this chip. If it loses you're not out anything. If it wins, I get the money." That's why standing next to the player is so important. You need to be able to pass chips.

But it's important that you don't involve the casino or the dealers in any way. They still have to pay the guy who originally made the bet -- not you -- and you have to rely on that player to hand you your winnings after (not during) that payout. Anything else violates dealer procedure and will probably get you scolded or booted. If the player pulls the don't bet, it's too late. For obvious reasons, the casino will absolutely not let you put your money up in its place. And don't forget that you're effectively taking +EV from the casino when you do this so keep it quiet.

Quote: Paigowdan

Player may make any legal even-money bet with a voucher, as he sees fit. Pass, don't pass, and field. No props. Player may bet both the pass and the don't pass if he wishes, - and any dealer comment about it is unwanted and unnecessary, - and I say this as a dice dealer. It is a legal combination of bets, period, end of story, unless a written stipulation is on the ticket.

That has been the case for Caesars Entertainment's Direct Bet program for about a year or two. They allow bets only on the Pass Line and in roulette ban black and odd. Go figure which MBA genius in marketing thought up that one.

Quote: 7craps

A great time to buy that DC for the alert craps player.

Not if he is standing next to someone who is a Biker, a Football player or a decrepid panhandler named Fleastiff!

I know many Dont bettors who will pull down a DC bet that falls on the 6 and 8. And if they happen to leave it up they wont add odds. but when the DC lands on the 4, 10 they load up on the odds.

it's their way of playing.

And then there are the rightway players who will bet full odds on 6,8 and no odds on 4,10.

It's their way of playing too.

Quote: 7craps

real poor dealers will say just "no action" and could get caught by the player if the next roll is a 7 or 11 and the player yells he wanted NO ACTION. I have seen that happen on a few occasions when there was no box.

A great time to buy that DC for the alert craps player.

Nope - This cannot be claimed by the player, - ever.
If a six or eight is rolled, the "no action" applies ONLY to moving up DC bet to the 6 or 8, as a "DC point" only. "No action" cannot apply to what's inside the DC box, as it is a self-service bet.

If the NEXT roll is a 7 or 11, action always applies to bets in the DC box on the next roll, as what is inside the DC box is a self-service bet:
A DC bet is present in the DC box for a next roll 7 or 11, it ALWAYS goes down on the next roll 7 or 11. You can never call what is inside the DC box off, you can just take it down. And if you hadn't, it's gone on a 7 or 11. You will also NEVER see a bet in the DC with an OFF button on it, let's put it that way.

ANY "No Action on the DC" claim by the player on a 7 or 11 is dismissed out-of-hand by the boxman and all dealers as a self-service bet.
This is akin to saying "No Action on my Field bet" if a 5 is rolled. Total B.S. You will also never see a field bet with an OFF button on it either.

You can call no action up to a DC number, but not what's inside of the DC box.