Do People Max out their Odds?
July 4th, 2011 at 6:41:11 AM
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Wondering how many people take their max odds at the craps table. I was just thinking to myself about Casino Royale(100x)...ok, so you've got this guy on the pass line with $5 and backs it up with $500? That's some serious dough! And then you read about how how some casinos are 'generous'(which is amusing) with their odds(other than Royale), like MSS(Main Street Station) with I believe 20x, still that's $5 on pass and $100 in odds, that's serious dough on the line too. I was going to make this a poll, but there are so many variations, 3x,4x,5x, etc. so I didn't bother. I guess I don't want that much 'Action', maybe I'm just a conservative kind of guy.
July 4th, 2011 at 6:52:50 AM
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I tend to usually max out my odds. I figure if I'm not going to take a 0% house edge bet why am I even in the casino in the first place. Plus, I think some places are more likely to rate you higher if you're betting $500 a roll as opposed to $5 (even if their expected take is the same).
I can understand how some people would be adverse to that risk, though. You can certainly expect to play longer by only making the pass line bet.
I can understand how some people would be adverse to that risk, though. You can certainly expect to play longer by only making the pass line bet.
July 4th, 2011 at 6:55:09 AM
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Quote: iwannaiguanaI tend to usually max out my odds. I figure if I'm not going to take a 0% house edge bet why am I even in the casino in the first place.
I have never understood why people play large amounts on baccarat. Why not max out odds instead. You are much better off.
July 4th, 2011 at 7:03:57 AM
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I've played max odds, both do and don't, on 3,4,5X tables. Next trip I want to try the 20x at MSS, but I don't think I'll max the odds there on a $5 bet.
Casino Royale specifically, the odds offered are at odds with the regular clientele, so I think it's mostly a gimmick. The Rampart offered 100x odds, too, and for all I know still does. I really regret not hanging around just to see what the play was like at their craps tables.
Anyway, you won't find a high roller placing pass line and come bets with 100x odds at Casino Royale, even though that would make sense for high rollers to do; unless there's a table limit for payoffs that renders such betting moot. But I suppose from time to time you may see one or two such bets. I think someone here reported trying to do so on a $3 bet, only to be tolds that for bets under $5 the max odds were 20x
Casino Royale specifically, the odds offered are at odds with the regular clientele, so I think it's mostly a gimmick. The Rampart offered 100x odds, too, and for all I know still does. I really regret not hanging around just to see what the play was like at their craps tables.
Anyway, you won't find a high roller placing pass line and come bets with 100x odds at Casino Royale, even though that would make sense for high rollers to do; unless there's a table limit for payoffs that renders such betting moot. But I suppose from time to time you may see one or two such bets. I think someone here reported trying to do so on a $3 bet, only to be tolds that for bets under $5 the max odds were 20x
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
July 4th, 2011 at 7:11:47 AM
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Sometimes the min bet and max odds conflict with my bankroll requirements. A $10 craps table with 5X odds can chew through $1000 pretty quickly.
A falling knife has no handle.
July 4th, 2011 at 7:19:02 AM
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I rarely see people max out the odds even at a 3-4-5 table.
Heck, I typically take only 2x, or 3x if I'm doing well.
Heck, I typically take only 2x, or 3x if I'm doing well.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
July 4th, 2011 at 9:32:15 AM
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I usually figure an amount I want to wager (based on my bankroll) per bet. Then I divide it between the pass line and odds, with as much on odds as allowed. Sometimes that's max odds and sometimes it isn't.
Old enough to repaint. Young enough to sell.
July 4th, 2011 at 9:48:38 AM
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Everybody's got their own style. At a $5 table, I routinely take max odds at 3/4/5. At a table with 10x odds or better, I press the odds if I get ahead, but rarely to the max. Biggest odds bet I've made was $100 behind a $10 PL. My style is press when I get ahead by X amount. If you're not pressing, you're grinding, and the casino's millstones are quite a bit bigger than mine.
"Win with a smile, lose with grace."
July 4th, 2011 at 9:54:51 AM
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I tend to max out my bankroll and to max out my courage well before I get to the point of maxing out my odds bet.
Craps players absolutely KNOW they should have Max odds but that doesn't mean they actually do it.
This is why 100x odds is more often on the marquee than ever on the table. Sure they will let you do it, but its a gimmick to them and they know must people will never get to max odds. Some players don't take odds most take 2x or 3x odds. Some up it to the often encountered 3x4x5x odds, Some even venture to the 10x and 20x tables and actually go to 10x or 20x too! Darn few go to 100x tables and put up 100x. So the casinos main "cost" in offering it is probably the large plastic letters on the marquee.
Crews do see bettors putting all they can on the odds bets but its not all that common.
Craps players absolutely KNOW they should have Max odds but that doesn't mean they actually do it.
This is why 100x odds is more often on the marquee than ever on the table. Sure they will let you do it, but its a gimmick to them and they know must people will never get to max odds. Some players don't take odds most take 2x or 3x odds. Some up it to the often encountered 3x4x5x odds, Some even venture to the 10x and 20x tables and actually go to 10x or 20x too! Darn few go to 100x tables and put up 100x. So the casinos main "cost" in offering it is probably the large plastic letters on the marquee.
Crews do see bettors putting all they can on the odds bets but its not all that common.
July 4th, 2011 at 11:14:16 AM
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I max out at a $5 table and 3x4x5x, but if the table goes to $10 stick to 2x or similar. One of these days I might risk more.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
July 4th, 2011 at 4:54:38 PM
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I long for the days of Binion's Horseshoe (and Casino Royale a little while ago), with its $1 min and taking 10X odds. That was about all I could afford then. Heck, that's about all I can afford now. So, I sure am unable to back up the bet with high odds, anymore. Usually go $5 on the line and single odds (I know, I know) but try to find lower minimum games to increase the odds behind. Once in a while, I will go $5 on the line and back it with the 3X,4X,5X at the Golden Nugget (place I stay) but that is very rarely.
Never count your winnings at hour 23 of a 24-hour drive.
July 4th, 2011 at 5:15:18 PM
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Still available at that Hendertucky place... Jokers Wild. Unless its late night of a weekend when it would be 2.00 minimum bet.Quote: bushmanI long for the days of $1 min and taking 10X odds.
July 4th, 2011 at 5:25:14 PM
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Quote: FleaStiffStill available at that Hendertucky place... Jokers Wild. Unless its late night of a weekend when it would be 2.00 minimum bet.
Yep, I understand that. Would like to get over there during my Aug. trip. Having a difficult time getting my buddy to go. He forgets where we came from (days of staying at Vegas World for "free" or nights at the Villa Roma.) He got a great paying job (though he worked for it.) Me, I have been plugging away for 21 years working for a university. You guys do the math (he worked at Dell, since the early days.) He isn't a snob, mind you, but he sure likes to play in the special room at the Golden Nugget. Bit harder for me.
Never count your winnings at hour 23 of a 24-hour drive.
July 4th, 2011 at 7:45:49 PM
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Quote: AlanWondering how many people take their max odds at the craps table. I was just thinking to myself about Casino Royale(100x)...ok, so you've got this guy on the pass line with $5 and backs it up with $500? That's some serious dough! And then you read about how how some casinos are 'generous'(which is amusing) with their odds(other than Royale), like MSS(Main Street Station) with I believe 20x, still that's $5 on pass and $100 in odds, that's serious dough on the line too. I was going to make this a poll, but there are so many variations, 3x,4x,5x, etc. so I didn't bother. I guess I don't want that much 'Action', maybe I'm just a conservative kind of guy.
I've been playing craps now for 3 1/2 years. In the past year now, when I am shooting I always take max odds. I use the H/w set and shoot from SL1 or SL2.
Generally I have been making my first point about 65% of my turns with the dice this past year of so. Of course when I do single or double odds, I always make my point ( of course ).
When someone else has the dice, if I do a passline bet and they are on their first or second point, its strictly double odds. After that, If the shooter gets going its max odds with no questions asked. I have spent to many sessions in the past with my TUMA watching a shooter toss for 30+ minutes wondering when do I jump in and increase the odds and when do I press that $6.00 6n8.
Eagledice
July 4th, 2011 at 7:48:16 PM
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I usually don't start a session with max odds even on a 3x,4x,5x table. I press the odds up on a good roll or when I am winning overall. Most I have ever taken them to is 10x which was max. On an exceptional roll I would get to 100x if it was available since I keeping raising my bet until the roll ends. Many years ago Binions had 10 cent craps with I think 100x odds (it could have been less my memory fails) I used to max out the odds at that table.
Be careful when you follow the masses, the M is sometimes silent.
July 4th, 2011 at 8:04:39 PM
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The reason I even posed this question is that there has to be a 'realistic' approach, unless you have an unlimited bankroll and are willing to risk it big time. Honestly, I don't have the balls to stick that much money on the line 'free' odds or not. And to any new people the word 'free' on the odds may be misleading (as they can't lose it). Anything on the table is subject to a loss.
July 4th, 2011 at 8:35:56 PM
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Quote: bushmanYep, I understand that. Would like to get over there during my Aug. trip. Having a difficult time getting my buddy to go. He forgets where we came from (days of staying at Vegas World for "free" or nights at the Villa Roma.) He got a great paying job (though he worked for it.) Me, I have been plugging away for 21 years working for a university. You guys do the math (he worked at Dell, since the early days.) He isn't a snob, mind you, but he sure likes to play in the special room at the Golden Nugget. Bit harder for me.
I wouldn't worry about the odds. You increase your variance, but the actual EV stays the same (the bets costs you 1.41% of the $5 passline). If your budget is $10 a roll, then $5 with $5 behind is good. Betting $10 on the line would be a mistake.
Don't stress not taking the full odds if you don't have the bank roll or comfort for it.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
July 5th, 2011 at 7:41:45 AM
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Quote: thecesspitI wouldn't worry about the odds. You increase your variance, but the actual EV stays the same (the bets costs you 1.41% of the $5 passline). If your budget is $10 a roll, then $5 with $5 behind is good. Betting $10 on the line would be a mistake.
Don't stress not taking the full odds if you don't have the bank roll or comfort for it.
Nah! I don't stress it. I just have fond memories of working a progression up from $1 on the line, backed by $10 to (happened a couple of times at the "New Frontier") to a $10 line bet backed by a black ($100.) That was awesome, as the shooter had to make 6 passes for me to get to that $10 bet. Both times, of course, sevened-out, but a nice sum was made working it up.
If I had the bankroll, I probably would not have any discomfort betting it. However, a $5 bet backed by either $50 or $500 sure would be a heart-pounder. I get the variance aspect, as well as the EV. I do what I can afford. Of course, I certainly wouldn't start off with a huge bet.
Never count your winnings at hour 23 of a 24-hour drive.
July 5th, 2011 at 9:46:10 AM
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You should always take as much odds as possible. "As possible" is of course limited by your bankroll requirements. It's nice to be able to press on the odds as well, in case you don't take the max right away.
I second the Joker's Wild recommendation. Played there July 4th, actually. Got on a monster roll, and pressed up to $2+$20 on every number. I always start out with $1+$10. Lots of fun.
If you go down the street to the corporate "big brother" Sam's Town, you can play $3/20x. A lot of the dealers from Joker's have graduated to there. Although Joker's now has Verna, who is the best dealer there!
I second the Joker's Wild recommendation. Played there July 4th, actually. Got on a monster roll, and pressed up to $2+$20 on every number. I always start out with $1+$10. Lots of fun.
If you go down the street to the corporate "big brother" Sam's Town, you can play $3/20x. A lot of the dealers from Joker's have graduated to there. Although Joker's now has Verna, who is the best dealer there!
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
July 19th, 2011 at 10:07:19 PM
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I am actually a bit surprised that I haven't seen more high rollers who are serious about winning come over for craps sessions at Casino Royale.
If I had the money to play $25 line bets with 3/4/5x odds at Wynn--which I don't--I would still rather take that same stake to CR and put a majority of it behind the line. It baffles me that you don't see that place full of well-heeled gamblers who don't mind a temporary change of scenery from their luxury hotel for incredibly improved odds.
Has anyone seen a character like this taking full advantage at CR, i.e., betting $5 with $500 odds? I would do this all damn day long if I had a big roll...
If I had the money to play $25 line bets with 3/4/5x odds at Wynn--which I don't--I would still rather take that same stake to CR and put a majority of it behind the line. It baffles me that you don't see that place full of well-heeled gamblers who don't mind a temporary change of scenery from their luxury hotel for incredibly improved odds.
Has anyone seen a character like this taking full advantage at CR, i.e., betting $5 with $500 odds? I would do this all damn day long if I had a big roll...
July 19th, 2011 at 10:21:30 PM
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Quote: livetwiceI am actually a bit surprised that I haven't seen more high rollers who are serious about winning come over for craps sessions at Casino Royale.
If I had the money to play $25 line bets with 3/4/5x odds at Wynn--which I don't--I would still rather take that same stake to CR and put a majority of it behind the line. It baffles me that you don't see that place full of well-heeled gamblers who don't mind a temporary change of scenery from their luxury hotel for incredibly improved odds.
Has anyone seen a character like this taking full advantage at CR, i.e., betting $5 with $500 odds? I would do this all damn day long if I had a big roll...
Well if you do the realistic math on it....Its really not that big of deal. I was recently in Vegas playing $25 (3-4-5X) with full odds at MB. And before the trip was thinking maybe I should take some of my bankroll over to CR, and play $5 with 25x odds. Then I thought about the real math of it. I would be exposing $20 less on the P/L to 1.41% house advantage. Or basically $0.28 per come out. Assuming 20 come outs per hour....$5.60 per hour more in expected loss. I would EASILY be willing to pay an extra $5.60 per HOUR to play at MB over CR LOL
July 19th, 2011 at 11:03:12 PM
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Quote: livetwiceIf I had the money to play $25 line bets with 3/4/5x odds at Wynn--which I don't--I would still rather take that same stake to CR and put a majority of it behind the line. It baffles me that you don't see that place full of well-heeled gamblers who don't mind a temporary change of scenery from their luxury hotel for incredibly improved odds.
Has anyone seen a character like this taking full advantage at CR, i.e., betting $5 with $500 odds? I would do this all damn day long if I had a big roll...
I actually did it myself once, a long time ago when the limit was $1/100x. I used put bets and got the bases loaded for $606. But no, I think as has been pointed out, the sort of person who has the bankroll to put $500 behind the line would rather do it where his or her rail-mates aren't sweating the white chips. I've bet huge once in my life ($1000/bet) but that was on a massive parlay. As a rule I stick to smaller wagers. If I truly had the bankroll to bet that big, I probably wouldn't do it in a casino. I'd be out buying racehorses or wagering on something more exotic than you can typically experience by adding a zero or two to your passline bet.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
July 19th, 2011 at 11:35:06 PM
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I understand this perspective. But for the serious craps player who doesn't mind slumming it at CR, does it get any better? I'm interested in the percentages, not the quality of the cocktail service. Is the house edge difference between playing $25 3/4/5x at full odds and $3 100x at full odds really as insignificant as the previous poster said? If so, I'd agree, stay over at a nice place with your black chips. But it seems like the getting paid off on a point of 4 or 10 at 100x odds would be far more favorable than the payout at 3/4/5x odds with a larger 1:1 line bet.
July 20th, 2011 at 12:06:03 AM
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I would consider myself go be a fairly serious craps player, and I always max out my odds. I normally play the pass line with full odds and I am always on the come with full odds.
That being said, I am also at the point in my life where I want to play and gamble at a nice casino where I feel safe and comfortable. In general that means only getting 3x4x5x odds. Now, let us say that a nice casino like the Wynn started offering 100x odds. Yes, I will play the maximum odds that I can afford. If that means only playing the pass line with odds bet, that it. I will not take an extra come bet unless I have maxed out the full odds on the initial pass line.
I want to take any advantage that I can get, provided that I am enjoy myself and having fun. Fun for me means being someplace nice.
That being said, I am also at the point in my life where I want to play and gamble at a nice casino where I feel safe and comfortable. In general that means only getting 3x4x5x odds. Now, let us say that a nice casino like the Wynn started offering 100x odds. Yes, I will play the maximum odds that I can afford. If that means only playing the pass line with odds bet, that it. I will not take an extra come bet unless I have maxed out the full odds on the initial pass line.
I want to take any advantage that I can get, provided that I am enjoy myself and having fun. Fun for me means being someplace nice.
July 20th, 2011 at 1:59:57 AM
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Quote: gamblerI would consider myself go be a fairly serious craps player, and I always max out my odds. I normally play the pass line with full odds and I am always on the come with full odds.
Good way to play - if the bankroll allows.
But offering higher odds (and advertising "100x oods!") is a way that casinos use to get more of your money at risk - versus your risk of ruin! Near 0% house edge means very little to a limited bankroll, and at a casino - you're the one with that limited bankroll. You have to think about that.
Once the HE is less than 1.5%, then spending 50% of your bankroll to get < 1% becomes meaningless when risk-of-ruin goes through the roof.
I do press my pass line/come bet progression (and yes, with crap checks and hardways parlays) looking to catch the hot roll, 3x4x5x odds. I'll make an any-7 bet to cover my come points on the come-out roll, too.
I press when the temperature rises. If I'm ahead, then the pass line/come bets go up, with the odds following.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
July 20th, 2011 at 6:45:06 AM
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Forget about CR. I understand why someone who'd spring for the Wynn or even Monte Carlo woulnd't be caught dead there (I don't spring for the Monte Carlo). But there's the Rampart, way off strip, a very nice palce with a nice resort attached, and offering 100X on craps (no idea about minimums, though). That ought to get action from some high rollers.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
July 20th, 2011 at 6:54:32 AM
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Quote: PaigowdanGood way to play - if the bankroll allows.
But offering higher odds (and advertising "100x oods!") is a way that casinos use to get more of your money at risk - versus your risk of ruin! Near 0% house edge means very little to a limited bankroll, and at a casino - you're the one with that limited bankroll. You have to think about that.
Once the HE is less than 1.5%, then spending 50% of your bankroll to get < 1% becomes meaningless when risk-of-ruin goes through the roof.
I do press my pass line/come bet progression (and yes, with crap checks and hardways parlays) looking to catch the hot roll, 3x4x5x odds. I'll make an any-7 bet to cover my come points on the come-out roll, too.
I press when the temperature rises. If I'm ahead, then the pass line/come bets go up, with the odds following.
Don't forget that at extremely high odds multiples, put bets + large odds are functionally equivalent to large place bets, just with a much lower HA and lower risk of ruin. If you're a big place bettor, or you like to buy the 4/10 for a stack of black chips, put bets + 50x or 100x odds are far superior.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
July 20th, 2011 at 8:36:44 AM
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I never let my ego get in the way of a chance to make some $. I have played at the Casino Royale for just that oppourtunity to put a small pass line bet backed up with large odds. I only play there in the morning. At that time you can pretty much have a table to yourself. If you tip the dealers they will be friendly and into your game. Last time there the box man joked "now that you woke us up you better make it worth both our while". My buddy and I had the table to ourselves for at least 1 1/2 hrs and had a great time not real profitable but did make some $. Do not and I mean do not go there later in the day or at night because it is elbow to elbow with drunk kids whipping the dice everywhere and you will just aggravate yourself, because no one will have any proper table edicate. The tables also are not the best and they are long. I have had some good profitable fun there in the morning. They also use to have a really good TDB video poker game not sure if they still have it.
July 20th, 2011 at 9:30:23 AM
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I usually just play $5 pass with 3/4/5...however, one time I went down to Lake Tahoe, to Lakeside Inn, where they have 10x odds, and I was playing $5 with 10x; I just stuck to the pass line, and I put the boys up for $1 with 10x...needless to say I made about $500 that day, and the dealers made some good dough, and I got called up by a host and told I could have two nights ANYTIME (I picked 4th of July).
Gambling calls to me...like this ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nap37mNSmQ
July 20th, 2011 at 11:18:20 AM
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For someone who has the bankroll to play $25 PL at Wynn or wherever, don't neglect the fact that they'll likely be generously comped at that hotel, so the total EV (including desirable comps) for playing $25 PL with 3-4-5x odds may be greater at the nicer casino than $5 PL with even 25x odds at Casino Royale. Honestly, what could CR offer someone with that bankroll to entice them to play there? Once you get to the point where you can comfortably afford their 100x odds bet, your days of slumming it at the CR are long gone.
July 20th, 2011 at 12:26:53 PM
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Plus you can definitely beat the house in horse racing. Like the teller who owned a race horse and when a bettor was betting large amounts on his horse, the teller advised against itm saying he owned the horse. The bettor said " keep punching those tickets. I own the other 5 horses.
July 20th, 2011 at 12:35:56 PM
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I have often seen players with $2500+ in action on the line. Players at this level aren't interested in the Casino Royale, or the drive to the Boulder Strip. They are more interested in the wine pairing with their Kobe steak, and whether they will take the helicopter or the Bentley to go across the street.
A question of interest though, is what is the max line bet and max odds bet at Casino Royale? I have, on occasion, seen some players rub up against a $5k odds max downtown (that would be a typical line bet for some Strip players).
There was a time when downtown's Horseshoe was the place for craps in all of Las Vegas. No minimum, No maximum, ten times odds. Why is this not a viable model for at least one niche place anymore?
A question of interest though, is what is the max line bet and max odds bet at Casino Royale? I have, on occasion, seen some players rub up against a $5k odds max downtown (that would be a typical line bet for some Strip players).
There was a time when downtown's Horseshoe was the place for craps in all of Las Vegas. No minimum, No maximum, ten times odds. Why is this not a viable model for at least one niche place anymore?
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
July 20th, 2011 at 1:00:49 PM
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Quote: AyecarumbaI have often seen players with $2500+ in action on the line. Players at this level aren't interested in the Casino Royale, or the drive to the Boulder Strip. They are more interested in the wine pairing with their Kobe steak, and whether they will take the helicopter or the Bentley to go across the street.
There is a lot of focus in this thread on what people with money are likely to do. Aside from the increased EV from hotel comps, I'm more interested in whether the odds differential at CR is sufficient to attract a serious gambler with a large roll who doesn't mind walking across the street from the Venetian. I think its a gross generalization to state that people with money never mind throwing it around. I wouldn't start playing Caribbean Stud or some other wacky carnival game just because I had a huge roll... I'd continue to care about house edge and showing a profit.
As I stated above, it seems there is a significant advantage to having a $5 pass line bet with 100x odds over a $100 pass line bet with 5x odds, especially on points of 4 and 10 where you're getting high payoff odds on a much larger percentage of your overall bet. Point after point, you're getting more than 95 percent of your overall bet paid off at true odds. Risking the same amount of money spread at 3x odds, 25 percent of your bet will be paid off 1:1. (Math check here please, but the principle should hold true even if the math is off.)
Risk of ruin should not be part of the equation when we are talking about a player who has the roll to afford the same overall bet at 3/4/5x odds down the street. We're just talking about the potential edge gained by walking across the street to CR to put more of that money behind the line.
July 20th, 2011 at 1:08:27 PM
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Why no Benny Binion's place?
Because everything in town is owned by the Evil Empire and its commitment is to "the center" not the outliers. Look at all the Indian casinos? Look at the 2x and 5x places. They do okay and jacking it up to 10x or 20x is not worth it. Look at the slots... they don't offer good gambling, they offer good graphics.
The M opened up strong... and had big losses at the craps table and the roulette wheel. No one wants to emulate Benny Binion when their MBA types tell them you'll make more money shearing the ignorant sheep than you will becoming a mecca for real gamblers.
Because everything in town is owned by the Evil Empire and its commitment is to "the center" not the outliers. Look at all the Indian casinos? Look at the 2x and 5x places. They do okay and jacking it up to 10x or 20x is not worth it. Look at the slots... they don't offer good gambling, they offer good graphics.
The M opened up strong... and had big losses at the craps table and the roulette wheel. No one wants to emulate Benny Binion when their MBA types tell them you'll make more money shearing the ignorant sheep than you will becoming a mecca for real gamblers.
July 20th, 2011 at 7:57:28 PM
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Ahh yes the "sheeple" principle. Too bad the ignorant sheeple are first in line for those cut-backs, lay-offs, and increased taxes.
"Problem in Vegas?, what problem, I don't see no problem", chant the LV MBA's.
N&B
"Problem in Vegas?, what problem, I don't see no problem", chant the LV MBA's.
N&B
To err is human.
To air is Jordan.
To arrr is pirate.
