Why Do Craps Tokes/Tips Suck for Dealers?

I have heard from many casino dealers as well as from several others on this forum that the toke/tip rate for craps is well below the casino average. Especially when you factor in that craps requires 3 dealers to man the table at any given time.

Is it simply because people don't know how to tip on the craps table, unlike the blackjack table? Or are there more fleas at the craps table? Thoughts?

I think it's just the simple fact that people who play craps do so because it looks "fun" and they have no idea where or how to tip...
People who play BJ see it as they make one bet, easy enough, so to tip the dealer they make that ONE BET for the dealer also..
In craps, there are so many different bets I think people don't know what to bet for the dealers, so they simply don't do it.
Another thing I noticed, is when people give a "hand-in" they usually say "For the house", which is incorrect, because "For the house" would be going into the bank...what they WANT to say is "for the boys" (which I always correct them)

Player ignorance of tipping at craps does seem to be common as is players simply being cheap.

I think I mentioned that on the Florida boats it is common to put your initial bet on the line prior to the crew formally getting the game underway. I had positioned two chips, one for me and one for the dealers. This actually caused comments from two of the other players. It was that unusual to tip there!

I recall being in one casino decades ago when a dealer said to the boxman he was beginning to think of Seven-Eleven. What he meant was not necessarily working at a convenience store but knocking one over since he was so desperate. It was not just an entire shift with no tips but virtually an entire shift in an empty casino. I imagine the comments were more or less directed at me but I was just learning and didn't know about tipping in casinos.

All blackjack dealers believe that they "carry" the dice dealers as well as the "deadwood" amongst the blackjack dealers.

I go with cheap. I throw a nickel on the line for the boys from time to time while I'm playing.

While I'm sure there are various factors involved in why people don't cheap, including ignorance and cheapness and misconceptions of the millionaire lifestyles that most dealers live, I sometimes wonder if tipping would be made easier by the availability of small enough bills/chips to encourage the tipping.

As an example, the other day I went to a restaurant. My bill came out to be $9 and some odd cents. I paid with a $20 bill, and when the waitress came back with my change, she had given me 2 $5 bills and some change. I was a bit flabbergasted at this. She was a new waitress. I ate at this place fairly regularly, and most of the time, a waitress would bring me back 1 $5 bill and 5 $1 bills along with the change. This would allow me to tip my usual about of $3 plus the change. By bringing me 2 $5 bills, I was either forced to look back into my wallet for singles, which I didn't have, or give a $5 bill as a tip, or have the waitress go get me change. While I personally have no qualms about having the waitress make another trip to get change, I can see where some people might not want to do so, and then end up stiffing the waitress. The point being that if a waitress wants a tip, they'd be better off bringing the change amount such that a tip is easier to facilitate for the customer.

As another example, at my store, after one of my employees helped a customer load up some furniture, the customer came to me with a $100 bill and asked for some change, so he could tip the employee. I said, "He takes $100 bills, ya know." The customer laughed. So, I gave the customer 5 $20 bills. The customer now handed me one of the $20 bills and asked for change. I said, "He takes $20 bills, ya know." Another laugh. This proceeded until the customer had the requisite $5 bill that he wanted in the first place to give as a tip. However, if at the beginning of the exchange, I was unable to provide any change, there's a good likelihood that the employee would not have received a tip. (Although this particular customer probably would have just agreed to come back later and tip the guy, but that's besides the point.)

I've seen people who play $5 blackjack at a 3:2 table that receive a blackjack, and then have that $2.50 chip, just toss the $2.50 chip to the dealer as their tip. Maybe blackjacks don't come along all that often (I'm not a blackjack player, so I really don't know), but since it's awkward and/or impossible to bet the $2.50 chip, it's easy to use as a tip. At poker tables, I've seen players push the quarters to the dealer as their tip. Sure, they can save up the quarters and bet them, but they make for easy items to tip with.

I'm not a slot player, so I don't know anything about hand pays, but I have won money at bingo games. Even if I win something like $50, they don't bring me a $50 bill. They bring me a $20, 2 $10s, 1 $5, and 5 $1s. Sure, they don't know how much, or if, I will tip. But by giving me options to do so with, they can encourage me to do so. If they brought a $50 bill, they know darn well I'm not giving that to them. I'm assuming that hand paid wins at slot machines are done similarly.

Many table games have some sort of "bonus" bet, that helps to facilitate the tipping of the dealer. A lot of people may only tip when they hit a bonus hand, and sometimes only when they hit a huge bonus hand. Others may bet the bonus along with the dealer, in the hopes of encouraging the dealer to give them a good hand. I do something similar to this when I play Paigow Poker. I bet $1 on the bonus. Should the bonus be hit, which is usually a $2, $3, $4 win, I leave one of the dollars out there for the dealer, thus hoping that good karma will bring me, and the dealer, another bonus hand back to back. I see people doing something similar to this all the time. Because they won on the bonus, and the bonus payout is usually 2-1 or better, leaving something out there for the dealer in hopes of receiving back-to-back bonuses does not seem like a huge deal, since the player is still adding chips to their stack, in addition to rebetting the bonus for themselves and dealer.

My point being that the game of craps doesn't really help to facilitate the easy method of tipping that some other games, or instances of tipping, allow. Imagine a guy playing $5 on the field every roll. If he loses, $5 is gone. If he wins, he gets another red chip. He'll accumulate red chips (because he's lucky and his system is guaranteed to work for him), but he doesn't accumulate any smaller denomination chip that would help to faciliate the act of tipping. And if he's only betting a red chip each time, he's certainly not going to bet another red chip for the dealers.

Let's say someone is placing the 6 for $6. Everytime it hits, they win $7. 1 red and 2 white chips. Only, the dealers are usually on top of things, and it's not like they are going to constantly be paying the person 1 red and 2 white chips. At some point, when they see that the accumulation of white chips is getting heavy, they will start asking the person to give change of 3 white chips in exchange for 2 reds. Thus the player never accumulates so many white chips that he would even consider utilizing them for a tip.

I think another idea from that is when someone is betting small, they are probably less likely to tip. They may not actively think mathematically, but some portion of them thinks, if I'm only betting $6 for myself, why am I going to bet $1 for someone else? This may be a good reason why dealers, other than promoting the house edge, should encourage players to press their bets. Betting $1 for the boys on a $6 place bet seems like a lot. But if you've been winning and pressing, betting $1 for the boys on a $24 place bet seems like a trivial amount. But even so, the player knows they have to use red and white chips in order to make the bet. Thus, there is no smaller chip that they could use to place a tip. They need those reds and whites, no matter how many they have, in order to bet.

I think the lack of tipping may also be the reason why the dealers try to encourage players to tip with one of the high profile center table bets. There isn't a lot of tipping go on, so they figure they might as well try to get as much money as possible from what meager tips they are receiving.

One must also figure that low payout games are going to result in low tipping. If you put $5 into a slot machine, and hit a jackpot, and win (not sure how much they pay) $5,000, you probably don't mind tipping some portion of that amount, as it cost you so little to win so much. On the other hand, a $5 bet on the pass line at craps is only going to win you $5, so why would you want to tip any of it?

Ultimately, I find it would be best if the casinos would just put up signs, or have dealer name tags, that read "Will provide better service for tips."

I suspect that more of the craps tips are wagered on high house edge bets, like hardways or elevens, than similar, "win the tip" action on other table games. Most of the other tip income comes in when players color up before leaving, and hand in the odd singles and occasional nickle. But if the table is cold, players may not have anything left to color up; making the wait for one tip after 4 hours of play a "dicey" proposition.

How about just tip up front that way whether you win or lose at least the guys are taken care of and they know it. At least there's a possibility that they treat you with some respect and not some lowlife dirtball ;-)

Quote: konceptum

While I'm sure there are various factors involved in why people don't cheap, including ignorance and cheapness and misconceptions of the millionaire lifestyles that most dealers live, I sometimes wonder if tipping would be made easier by the availability of small enough bills/chips to encourage the tipping.

As an example, the other day I went to a restaurant. My bill came out to be $9 and some odd cents. I paid with a $20 bill, and when the waitress came back with my change, she had given me 2 $5 bills and some change. I was a bit flabbergasted at this. She was a new waitress. I ate at this place fairly regularly, and most of the time, a waitress would bring me back 1 $5 bill and 5 $1 bills along with the change. This would allow me to tip my usual about of $3 plus the change. By bringing me 2 $5 bills, I was either forced to look back into my wallet for singles, which I didn't have, or give a $5 bill as a tip, or have the waitress go get me change. While I personally have no qualms about having the waitress make another trip to get change, I can see where some people might not want to do so, and then end up stiffing the waitress. The point being that if a waitress wants a tip, they'd be better off bringing the change amount such that a tip is easier to facilitate for the customer.

I blame the dealers here. Anyone with an ounce of sense knows to give change to facilitate tips. To be honest if you need to have that explained to you the job probably isn't for you.

As to why craps players might not tip otherwise, I think it might be because half the table is there with a friend and has little idea how to play let alone tip. Some stories at places online like dicedealer state years ago the dice tables were the best place for tips. Tips were so good they were expected to get a gift for the pit boss at christmas. A gift like a Cadillac.

I always put a tip down on my first come out roll on the pass line. The dealers always appreciate it and it usually puts them on your side. I will also place the 6 and 8 for them. I have however been scolded by superstitious players who feel tipping the dealers will bring out the seven. I am not usually tactful with these individuals and have asked them to exctracate their heads from their anus as if my tipping has anything to do with the outcome of a roll. Craps players are a superstitious lot. If however after tipping, the dealers are surly or oblivious to the game then the tips stop and usually I will leave to find a table with more engaging dealers. I have no problem asking for white chips and if you are trying to be a controlled shooter then having the dealers on your side is a good thing. I like to play in the morning when there are not a lot of players because I like to shoot. I prefer to have my money riding on my arm and not someone elses. Not that I am any more proficient at tossing the dice then the next guy but being at a table with just the dealers or a couple other players it is good to have everyone in the game including the dealers. I would find it odd if I were buying in at a $10 table for the dealer to give me any white chips without me asking, but then again I never play any of the high house edge bets in the middle of the table. It would almost be the dealer is assuming I will tip. That would be annoying just like when the waiter or waitress asks if you want change? If the dealers perform a service, which they do they should be compensated comensurate with the level of service or entertainment they provided.

Quote: MrRalph

I always put a tip down on my first come out roll on the pass line. The dealers always appreciate it and it usually puts them on your side.

Good for you. Its the same tip money that you might give them a bit later in the game, but why not get more mileage out of it by giving them a tip right from the start. You've got nothing to lose by it and you will get noticed by them. Maybe it will help you, maybe it won't but it sure won't hurt you. They will be alert. You don't know what their prior hours have been like, maybe they are on overtime or have had a bad day so far or whatever... what you want is the dealers to know that you are there and that you are not one of the complete idiots that they may have been dealing with for their entire shift so far. Even at a minimum bet for yourself the dealers like to see something on the line for them too. After that tip, if a point is established it won't be a split second before they are asking you about odds. They want to learn your style and help you remember things. They don't much care whether you are a Right Bettor or a Wrong Bettor or whatever... they just want to keep you happy and playing at their table. Tippers can be rare sometimes and its never going to hurt you to start right off with a bit of generosity.

Will your generosity affect the dice? Of course it won't. Will it affect the people who are handling your bets and keeping up with a hectic table? Yes. Is that tip going to make either they or you rich? No. However, it may keep a hardway bet up when a number rolls soft or it may get you a "do you want odds on your 9" or some other such reminder.

I've seen people tip at the end of a game as they were about to leave the table and I've often wondered why they wait? Its the same amount of money if they give it earlier and why on earth did they wait?

I tip when I leave a table. Maybe i'm doing it wrong but I don't tip the waiter during a meal either.

Quote: s2dbaker

I tip when I leave a table. Maybe i'm doing it wrong but I don't tip the waiter during a meal either.

Most waiters are probably fairly confident that they will receive some kind of tip and that it will likely be based on some percentage of your bill, so long as they don't do something atrocious. They don't go through the meal getting progressively irritated because they suspect that you are planning to stiff them.

Don't know whether it's true or not, but long ago I was told that "tips" stood for "to insure proper service" and that at one time it was typical to provide the tip prior to a meal. If you are wanting your craps tip to influence how the dealers relate to you (and maybe that isn't of interest to you) then I think that tipping earlier is a better plan. An exception might be when you are a regular at a particular table and all of the crews already know you and your tipping pattern.

Quote: s2dbaker

I tip when I leave a table. Maybe i'm doing it wrong but I don't tip the waiter during a meal either.

You'll sometimes see it in movies. Some self-important person tips when the waiter first arrives, and tells the waiter that there will be more where that came from, if he gets good service.

It's the same idea.

But it's got me thinking. I typically only tip on the line, and only play the line when I'm shooting.

Is it acceptable to put down a line bet tip if you don't also have a line bet?

Actually tipping up front is the best way to go, IMHO. The dealers know right awat to respond to you and your needs. It just sends a good, positive message, especially for a dollar or two. I had a comp with a buddy once and he had gone the night before and said they were ignoring him at this casino restaurant. I grabbed the waiter gave him a $20 up front and we ended up getting great service and some "goodies" not included on our comp!

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Is it acceptable to put down a line bet tip if you don't also have a line bet?

I don't see why not. Consider the players who tip as they leave the table. I've thrown in a few chips and told the dealers to bet it how they like. I'd say, somewhere around 99.9999999% of the time, they will choose one of the higher payout middle-of-the-table bets to put it on, but why shouldn't they put it on the line if they like? And if they can put your tip on the line when you're not even at the table, then it shouldn't matter if you're at the table and not betting the line.

It might be fun to bet the Don't, and tip the dealers on the passline. Then, everytime you lose, they will win (mostly), and they'll keep apologizing for it. Might be kinda funny.

If I am up and the box nunbers seem to be hitting more than normal I will put a tip down say a dollar on the 5,6,8 &9 and tell the dealers this bet is for you, the bet stays you take the win. This was you are continually tipping without taking more out of your chip rack and the dealers are always in the game. I have used this with Black Jack as well.

Quote: FleaStiff

I've seen people tip at the end of a game as they were about to leave the table and I've often wondered why they wait? Its the same amount of money if they give it earlier and why on earth did they wait?

I think many players only tip from their winnings. The tip amount at the end of a session would not be the same as one proffered at the beginning, as many times there would be nothing left. Also, there appears to be some "karmic hope" in many tips, expecting that getting as many hearts and minds pushing for the same outcome will somehow make it more likely to happen.

Gamblers are a superstitious lot.

My dad was a cab driver in Baltimore in the 1950's and tips fed his family. In the 70's as a young man in Denver everytime I took a cab I talked to the driver. Many were from back east and said it took a while to get used to the fact that most natives rarely tipped, if at all. In Blackhawk Colorado when gambling was legalized in 1991 I sat in with other dealers interviewing for jobs as new casino's came on line. When the interviewer started talking about sharing tips among shifts, or worse yet lumping BJ and poker dealers in the same pool, most dealers would get up and walk out. Especially poker dealers. Not sure what BJ dealers are doing, but I don't know of a poker dealer in the state who does not keep his own tips. Anybody got any stats on average tips per week on any and or all table games ???

Quote: konceptum

... It might be fun to bet the Don't, and tip the dealers on the passline. Then, everytime you lose, they will win (mostly), and they'll keep apologizing for it. Might be kinda funny.

About a year ago I posted about a visit to several of the Indiana casinos. While I normally have my wager and a dealer bet on the pass line while I am shooting, one time I decided to place my wager on the pass but the dealer wager on the don't. That trip I had been shooting terrible, and I told them at least that way one of us should win. If I set an even number point, I bet a two-way hard way on that number to put us in sync a little. Turned out I had my best hand of that entire trip. Yep, I thought it was all kinda funny, and the dealers actually did just fine on the hard way bets.

Quote: buzzpaff

Anybody got any stats on average tips per week on any and or all table games ???

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the mean salary of Las Vegas dealer's was about $17,000 annually, with an additional 40% - 80% more from tips.

It's not difficult AT all to tip the crew. Just throw them the money and say "for the crew". Really, it's that simple. And do it early, and you will receive better service and the crew will be rooting for you.

Quote: boymimbo

And do it early, and you will receive better service and the crew will be rooting for you.

But what if they suck?

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Is it acceptable to put down a line bet tip if you don't also have a line bet?

Just about ANY tip is acceptable to the dealers. A line bet, even below table minimums, is just ducky. The dealers will accept any tip gratefully and if the bet wins will be even more grateful.

So many players do NOT tip that its not at all like a waiter in a restaurant who is relatively certain he will receive some tip. This is why its best to tip early, usually upon arrival. It doesn't have to be a large tip. It just has to be enough to wake them up to the fact that they have an opportunity and shouldn't blow it. If they start being alert to you and your particular style of play, so much the better for you. If they stay half asleep and bored .. so what? You only tipped them a little bit. If they remain alert to your needs and do anything special for you, you tip them a bit more. There is no real use in waiting until the game is over to tip them. They can't do anything for you then.

The Turner Classic Movie channel had Petrified Forrest on recently. I think it was Ronald Coleman who played in it. The action takes place in a roadside cafe supposedly in the Arizona Desert even though the flora depicted is incorrect. Look for the prominent sign reading: Tipping is Un-American. Quite a common sentiment in days gone by and probably a scene that is censored by the Las Vegas Chamber of Commerce whenever the movie is shown in Las Vegas.

Oh, and To Insure Promptitude is, I understand, a myth.

When travelers did not wish to display a purse selecting a coin in advance and tossing it in payment for a drink and some food allowed the serving wench and landlord to inspect the coin and decide on the amount and quality of what would be brought. Far safer for a traveler than displaying a purse, even a fool's purse. I think tipping probably started from such a situation wherein a diner felt it was safer for him to do so.

Quote: FleaStiff

Just about ANY tip is acceptable to the dealers. A line bet, even below table minimums, is just ducky. The dealers will accept any tip gratefully and if the bet wins will be even more grateful.

Just last week in a quiet game at Bally's AC, I sent out one of my two-way yo's (to help cover the Don't Come). It came in, but the stick was so out of it he didn't realize anything had transpired. I spoke up loudly to the friendly dealer who pointed out to the stick that it was a two-way. The tone and tenor of the tables has changed without the boxmen and box women. The pros never looked as if they were doing much. But counting the buy-ins, totaling the refills, coloring up and on and on are most definitely taking their toll on the remaining three-member crews. And that doesn't even touch on the subject of ratings.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

But it's got me thinking. I typically only tip on the line, and only play the line when I'm shooting.

Is it acceptable to put down a line bet tip if you don't also have a line bet?

By the way, this is a two-fold question.

1 - Why would I put down a bet for the dealers if I don't put the same bet down for myself? Isn't that like saying, "I don't like this bet enough to risk my own money, but I'll risk the tip money."? Maybe I'm wrong, but that strikes me as somewhat arrogant and/or asshole-ish.

2 - With my own bet next to the tip bet, the casino considers it one player's bet, so it satisfies the table minimum. Without my own bet next to it, then the tip bet is below the table minimum. Would a scrooge pit-boss deny such a bet for that reason? If not, would they deny it to be "Player controlled"? I realize that this may be based upon house rules, but curious minds and all....

Quote: DJTeddyBear

By the way, this is a two-fold question.

1 - Why would I put down a bet for the dealers if I don't put the same bet down for myself? Isn't that like saying, "I don't like this bet enough to risk my own money, but I'll risk the tip money."? Maybe I'm wrong, but that strikes me as somewhat arrogant and/or asshole-ish.

Maybe your typical play is the don'ts and since the other players already know it's the house against them, they don't want the dealers against them too..so you place a pass line bet on their(dealers) behalf and not a don't pass...so it shows everybody playing that the dealers are on their side, well maybe.??

Quote: DJTeddyBear

2 - With my own bet next to the tip bet, the casino considers it one player's bet, so it satisfies the table minimum. Without my own bet next to it, then the tip bet is below the table minimum. Would a scrooge pit-boss deny such a bet for that reason? If not, would they deny it to be "Player controlled"? I realize that this may be based upon house rules, but curious minds and all....

I don't know. I've never tried to make a dealer only pass line bet that was under the table minimum, I'm not sure if that would fly or not. It may be some kind of optional decision per casino or whatever...I'm interested in the answer too.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

1 - Why would I put down a bet for the dealers if I don't put the same bet down for myself? Isn't that like saying, "I don't like this bet enough to risk my own money, but I'll risk the tip money."? Maybe I'm wrong, but that strikes me as somewhat arrogant and/or asshole-ish.

Just so. Nareed's 15th Law states as much:

Quote:

16) Bet for the dealers the same kind of bets you place for yourself. Otherwise you make it seem as though you're throwing their tip money away. Exception if the dealer asks politely for a specific bet you don't care to make.

The Law assumes a knowledgeable bettor who plays the best bets available, BTW. Obviously a player who bets, say, only the hardways at craps can break the law with impunity and place a line bet for the dealers.

Quote: Alan

I don't know. I've never tried to make a dealer only pass line bet that was under the table minimum, I'm not sure if that would fly or not. It may be some kind of optional decision per casino or whatever...I'm interested in the answer too.

It will fly. It is sometimes considered a bit strange to make a contrary bet for the dealers and some might even consider it rude but in reality the dealers appreciate tips. Whether they be guaranteed such as in the form of dealer hand-ins that go directly into the toke box or in the form of bets that may or may not wind up in the toke box. Its a bit of excitement and diversion for the crew to be on the line even if its only for one dollar at a five dollar table. I've usually done Five and Five for the dealers, but I've also done Five and One. The dealers know its a tip bet and they know it does not have to be at table minimum if its a dealer bet. Once a Stickman asked what the red chip was in the center of one of the Point Number Boxes. It was where my five dollar come bet had traveled to and since this was a fifteen dollar table he noticed it. After that explanation by the dealer, the dealer at the other end of the table knew it too. And I imagine any dealer then on rotation who later tapped in learned that he had a friend at the table. Even if it was only one lousy red chip, the message gets across. Its considered rude to make a toke bet and then take a trip to the mens room before its resolved, but even then the dealers probably enjoy it if it wins during your absence. In a tip pooling world such as exists in most casinos that five dollar bet that wins doesn't really add up to ten dollars for them. Its better than nothing though and they say "thank you" so that others may realize they have been failing to be generous.

Dealers will accept almost any tip bet, but some casinos will not allow you to put anything on the back of a bet that is already at the upper limit for the table. A ridiculous rule but quite firm at some casinos.

I always try to keep my dealer tip bets as "player control"...some houses hassle you more about that than others. If you win on a initial roll of 7 with a pass line bet for the crew, they'll drop the bet and the win unless you have control. I've turned them some nice tips off of a shooter who rolls two or three points. I also add odds at 2x or 3x on my $1 bet. It isn't a fortune, but I always tip something.

If I bet the middle, it is a two- (or three-) way bet. A three-way yo is a lot of fun...

I was playing at Main Street Station a couple of weeks ago, and the craps dealers seemed very appreciative of the tips (successful or otherwise). Even when I had a tip bet down for the dealer that didn't win, they would always look right at me and say out loud: "Thank you for trying". Every time.

Quote: blount2000

Even when I had a tip bet down for the dealer that didn't win, they would always look right at me and say out loud: "Thank you for trying". Every time.

Its often similar to that first couple out on the dance floor ... it starts a trend. The comment is indeed meant to thank you but its also a way of getting the suggestion planted in the minds of other players too. They see and hear you tipping and it just might motivate others as well. Its not as if the dice crew can influence how the dice land or anything but they can make things particularly pleasant for you and can certainly watch out for any lapses of your memory about odds or anything.

Quote: FleaStiff

...but I've also done Five and One. The dealers know its a tip bet and they know it does not have to be at table minimum if its a dealer bet.

It doesn't NEED to be higher than $1 because, the reality is, the $5 bet plus $1 tip bet is a $6 bet.

I also often bet the minimum plus $1 tip bet on the pass line - ONLY when I'm shooting.

My question is, is it OK to bet ZERO for me, but a $1 tip, on the pass line? After all, that truly is below the minimum.

The best tip at a crap table, is to take odds for the dealers...
ie: If you see someone who DOESN'T have max odds (or any odds at all) get the dealers attention and set chips behind their bet and say "Odds for the dealers"

Quote: DJTeddyBear

My question is, is it OK to bet ZERO for me, but a $1 tip, on the pass line? After all, that truly is below the minimum.

During my visits to the casinos today, at every craps table I played, I tried this, and was never told that I could not do so. In fact, as I placed a $1 pass line bet for the boys, and asked if it was ok, the pit boss simply looked at me and said, "It's always ok." At one casino, I walked up and asked for $20 in white chips. I then placed a $1 pass line bet and announced it was for the boys. I never made a single bet for myself. I continued to make $1 pass line bets for the boys, with no odds, until the $20 was gone. Then I walked away. I'm sure that will give them something to talk about.

At other times, I was playing, then would "sit out" for a roller, but still make a $1 pass line bet with double odds for the boys. Nobody ever batted an eye, as long as I mentioned it was for the boys, to avoid any issue with someone thinking that a too small bet was made.

One time, a relief pit boss came over the game, saw the $1 pass line + $2 odds bet, and thought something was wrong, and tried to remove the bet. I simply stated it was a bet for the boys, at which point he apologized and left it there.

Quote: konceptum

...I never made a single bet for myself. I continued to make $1 pass line bets for the boys, with no odds, until the $20 was gone.

Wow. I think my head would have exploded if I stood there, for that length of time, and not have a bet up for myself. Compound it by actually making bets? Ouch.

Quote: konceptum

I'm sure that will give them something to talk about.

I'm sure it did. Unfortunately, your $20 entertainment investment probably would have paid off the most by hearing what they said after you left!

Quote: konceptum

I continued to make $1 pass line bets for the boys, with no odds, until the $20 was gone. Then I walked away. I'm sure that will give them something to talk about.

I hope they won a few of those bets. Yeah, I bet that sure gave them something to talk about...like what's with this guy? Not in a bad way, just in a strange kind of way. I mean after all they got tipped ;-)

Quote: konceptum

One time, a relief pit boss came over the game, saw the $1 pass line + $2 odds bet, and thought something was wrong, and tried to remove the bet. I simply stated it was a bet for the boys, at which point he apologized and left it there.

Sensible pit boss. The casino usually knows that often a player will put up a dollar chip as a toke bet. Such chips can go to a waitress or the dealer toke bets or whatever. The casino does not force the player to make a certain minimum bet as a tip to the dealers. The dealers will take anything and usually they are very appreciative of the thought because it can get a higher roller thinking the same thoughts.

I've made field bets for the dealers that were below table minimums. No field bet for myself and not a 'two way' bet either. Just a bet for the dealers. No real problem. Everyone else has to do table minimums and I still have to do table minimums for myself but the dealers will allow anything that might give them money. I've from time to time had ONLY dealer bets on the table but that is usually when I've not done well and I'm about to call it quits so I put my last few chips on the line for the dealers and wait for the results then leave.

Look, there's never a set formula to toking at a dice table like there is with a bartender or waitperson. #1- are the dealers friendly and helpful? This is something that a dice crew has control of. They don't have any control of the dice or player betting strategy. #2- Most dealers like to maintain a fairly rapid pace to the game, this comes from management (as the House has the %, theoretically, the more rolls, the more $$), so are they giving you enough time to make your bets? #3-Do you feel you've received good service from the "crew"? If the answers are all yes, I would definitely make a few wagers for the crew early in your session. If you wait until the end, the dealers have no way of knowing if they're servicing you for nothing. Additionally, a lot of players tap out. Are the dealers responsible for a cold run of dice or player strategy that didn't work this time? In all honesty, no they aren't. They are paid, nominally, by the house, to make sure that the game is "on the square" and that certain House procedures are maintained. They do this. After that, management and labor go their separate way. Then they are relying on good customer service to bring in a large portion of their income from appreciative customers. It doesn't take much either, but most crews I've worked on really appreciate the effort. And when you stiff the dealers, it's an insult.

Quote: TIMSPEED

The best tip at a crap table, is to take odds for the dealers...
ie: If you see someone who DOESN'T have max odds (or any odds at all) get the dealers attention and set chips behind their bet and say "Odds for the dealers"

This is a great idea. I didn't know I could do this.

A pass line bet without odds probably isn't the best bet - so if you are going to do this, probably better to place the 6 or 8 for them.

Or what I will do is just place a coin on my odds saying it is for the dealer. That is a fantastic idea! Thanks tim