Craps dealers giving George

To anybody that's a good tipper or "George", have you ever been treated differently as a player?

I tip decently at craps table and it's common for me to throw a buck here and there on the pass line or on props for the crew. Different dealers and boxmen know me and are friendly. When new dealers are getting broken in, the stickman or the boxman will correct the new dealer making payout if it was under without me having to say a peep. Which, they should be dealing. However, several times there come out rolls hit a craps 2, 3, or 12 and the dealer grabs up everybody's pass line bets but just happened to forget to take my pass line bet. Meanwhile the boxman doesn't bother to remind him.

Anybody else have stories to share where being a tipper may have paid for itself?

I think its fairly common that a George or quasi-George gets special treatment but its "soft". If he has a hardway up and the number comes soft, his hardway bet may get overlooked. If his roll is a bit soft, he will not be hearing "No Roll". If he calls out something a bit late, it will still be booked. If he calls out something that is ambiguous, its interpretation will be to his benefit. Oh sure, its subtle rather than blatant but the box won't put a stop to it any too promptly. The whole town is built on tips. If you tip big the valet guy runs to your car rather than ambles. If you tip at the craps table the crew knows others will see it and possibly be similarly motivated. The box won't let it get out of hand but he will let a George get a little bit extra. If you are on the pass line and you've put the dealers on the pass line as well but you seven out, the stick will make some sort of little speech to goad the other players. The thank you will be audible to the other players. Its sort of a very "soft" hustle for tips. It happens. It won't get extreme and it won't persist forever, but it happens.

Bear:

Don't you think a little honey goes a little father than vineager?

I tip reasonabley well for the times that I have played craps. I have never seen the dealer "not pick up my PL Bet when there is a seven-out" however. THat seems a little extreme.

Some consideration on late calls, or what stays "UP" maybe, but that not picking up the PL bet would seem to be a fireable offense. And the stiff next to you would certainly make a stink....the most obvious direct problem with that.

SFB

I tip the dealers, and they seem to take care of me.

Example: once in awhile I make a come bet.

More than once, the dealer has "forgotten" to take it down if a shooter rolls a natural on a new come out roll.

Of course, as with any (favorable) "mistake" made by a dealer, I would never point it out to him: it's our little secret, and hey, I wouldn't want him to look bad.

I concur with the sentiments. It's the dealers "risking their jobs" so to speak. But in reality, it is 100% ABSOLUTELY NORMAL to not have chips taken from losing bets if the dealers like you, whether it is because you tip alright, or if encourage them to SS your GF, or if you just gave them an inside tip on a stock trade.

By normal, I don't mean legal, or even acceptable. But I do mean it HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.

Here's the short list of stuff that has happened to me:

Overlooking the pass line bet on a 7-out.
Overlooking the field bet on a no-field roll.
Not taking down a come bet that has already traveled on a natural 7 during the comeout roll.
Not taking down hardways (even after a parlay from 1 to 10).

This most often happens with minimum bets, but it doesn't have to be that way.

In general, dealers try to do this in a way that other players don't notice.

The flip side to this is when someone makes a $20 put bet when the point it 5 or 10, the dealer doesn't correct them, or when they bet $30 for any seven, they don't tell them about the 3-way seven bet.

When the difference is a buck or so, there are way more opportunities for the house to keep the extra buck instead of giving it, and in general, I think that it evens out pretty quickly. That's generally why I think it happens as frequently as it does, because there are so many suckers out there just throwing money into the tub without clue-1 about what they are doing.

The most incredible comment is the one of disbelief that a dealer would forget to pick up a pass.

Hell Yes! I always seem to be lucky when I tip big. Have I been over paid intentionally? Well, it sure seems like it.

Have I had my losing bets accidentally left on the table? Yep.

Two way hard-ways stay up mysteriously when that soft point is hit?

Dealers love to hate the casinos they work for in some cases.

I've been "Taken Care Of" many many times, especially when I was too buzzed to remember what bets I'd made.

The short answer is; Fu$kin A!

I don't think I'm a "big" tipper, but I do tip somewhat. I have noticed dealer mistakes in picking up my losing bets, but I'm never sure if that's because of my tipping, or simply a dealer oversight.

However, I have noticed an intentional dealer oversight when turning on my odds on come bets during a come out roll. I always ask for the odds to be on. One time, I had a full table of come bets, and the roller pulled a 7. The dealer proceeded to return my odds bets to me. The stick must have hard me announce that my odds were on, as he mentioned to the dealer that my odds should be taken. The dealer simply looked at the stick and said he was mistaken, and proceeded to return my odds bets to me. Later, when the stick replaced that dealer, the dealer made a special note of mentioning my tipping to him, with a comment about making sure I was taken care of. Later, during the stick-now-dealer's time, another player made the 7-out. The stick-now-dealer returned my come odds even though I had told him, and he knew from my history, that I always had come bets turned on.

If I had to guess, I would think that if you are the only one tipping at a table, you're more likely to receive such benefits. The more crowded the table, the easier it might be to allow this oversight to occur. In addition, I think it might also depend on where you are in the pay out schedule. The stick / boxman seems to pay closer attention to the first people being paid. I know they are supposed to pay attention to the entire payout, but I've noticed that sometimes as the dealer gets closer to the end of the people he's paying out, the stick and boxman start worrying about getting ready for the next roll. The exception to this will be if someone has a more complicated payout, like people playing the Don't or Laying odds. The stick / boxman will pay more attention to those payouts. In other words, it might be beneficial to be at the last payment place, and making rather common bets rather than anything special, and then tipping may result in the occasional intentional dealer oversight.

If the table is full of people tipping, it's probably less likely for a dealer to take care of you. Further, if there is someone tipping more than you, again, it's probably less likely they will take care of you.

Yeah, tipping at a craps table gives you better treatment overall. I'm a very honest player however, but when the table's busy, I've overlooked the special treatment because a correction would slow down play. It also gives you the benefit of the doubt in any disputes that inevitably happen (like a late call, a misplaced bet), etc. Usually, special treatment might mean a hardways left up (frequent) or a come bet left up when the natural is thrown (not frequent). But I think it's much better for disputes because a tipper and a nice player will always go a longer way in a dispute.

Dealers are not perfect. The other night, when the dealer went on a break, the dealer took the line and odds away from my wife, in MID ROLL. She was picking up the dice to throw when the stick made the point that she needed a line bet! The point was already on six, and she had thrown four points already. Of course, the money was returned to her, but of course the next roll was 7. Dealer premonition?

I'll say YES...just happened last weekend.
I was playing craps and I had a No-10 for $70, and the 10 rolled easy. Now, no one else had a bet on the 10 at all, there was no field bets, nor hard 10 bets, so the dealer just pushed the dice back to the shooter quickly and the shooter just as quickly rolled again (7-out) and all the chips were collected and I was paid for my No-10...
of course this was at a table full of 2 buck Chucks (As I like to call them; $2 game, and that's all they play is a $2 line bet) who didn't know a BIG RED from an ANY CRAP.

In general it goes like this: I'm tipping at a $3 or $5 craps game, just a buck on the pass each time I roll. No one else is tipping. I sometimes place the 6 and 8 after the point is established, sometimes not. The point is 6. I didn't place the eight, an 8 is rolled. I complain to my wife that I should have placed it. Dealer asks if I really want it. I say yes, throw him the $6, he pays me $7 as if it were up all the time. To the camera it looks like a call bet.

This is definitely a situation where tipping can be beneficial. I have had situations in the past where I've been regularly making a particular type of bet, like the hard-10. I forget to do so, and the hard-10 is rolled. The dealers will comment on the fact that I've always been betting it, and go ahead and pay me for it anyway. Even a few times, I've seen the dealer turn to the pit boss, tell the pit boss that I always make that bet, and have the pit boss nod to pay me.

Ironically, if anybody read one of the other craps threads in which I complained about the dealers at the Riverside casino in Laughlin doing a lot of hustling for tips, those craps dealers have also treated me the best as far as remembering my bets, paying me, or intentionally not scooping up a lost bet, when I've been tipping.

removed
silly

removed
silly

Quote: mustangsally

I always pointed out bets that lost to a dealer, even if they were not my bets. I just asked why that bet did not lose this time.
Tipping for exceptional service is one thing, tipping to cheat. Shame.
No reason I can think of to make myself look to be part of a "team" cheating at the Craps table.

I would have...hadn't the dealer of slid the dice back to the shooter and 7-out before I could get the dealers attention...had it NOT been a 7-out the VERY next roll...dice moves quick.

I let the crew worry about their own karma and their own jobs.

There is absolutely no reason for an incoming dealer to be told when he taps in that "such and such is our friend" other than to alert the dealer that a particular player has been "doing the Lord's work" for them and is to be treated well so that he is likely to keep on doing it. Heck, the name "George" refers to George Washington meaning a dollar bill and dates from the days when most craps games were "Bird Games" because those quarters (with an Eagle) were all over the place. A guy with a dollar bill really stood out since the dealers were so glad to see George being wagered.

Now is it morally proper to have a crew take a few liberties with a few of a George's bets? No. Its not morally proper for them to make a young girl in a low cut dress reach for the dice either, but it happens. And more often than not when she is bending over to reach for the dice after being short sticked she knows what is happening and why, just as most Georges know what is happening when a two-way hardway stays up after the number rolls soft.

Will the box get angry after awhile? Probably. Will the casino fire some guy over it? Probably not. After all, the surveillance people probably have that camera trained on the girl in the low cut dress.

I experienced this for the first time in Laughlin this past week.

I always tip pretty often, more so when I am winning, but I began winning early and often so I got in the habit of tipping $1 pass line bets every time, usually with 2x odds, and towards the end of my hours there I was adding a $4 2 way Yo on every come out, and hardways when I felt like playing them.

It started with a mistake on my part to put out my odds on a 4 point, and when a 4 hit, the dealer asked me where my odds were, and I asked him why he didnt remind earlier, jokingly of course. He then told me, Im telling you to put them down now. So they paid me on odds I hadnt bet yet.

The next occurrence was small, but I got paid $5 on a $3 bet when the minimum changed and I didnt know.

The next few were all almost back to back. As mentioned on the 2 way Yo bet, I would toss a $5 chip and bet $2/2 with a $1 change. The dealer at one point gave me $3 change, and before I could correct him, I saw my bet was right, and he told me dont worry about it. Then when a 12 came out, he paid me money, and when I asked about it, he said he made the bet a 11/12 so I didnt lose the money.

I had never seen this before, and was really wondering how they could get away with it. I just figured maybe the dealers had to pay it out of their tips, or something like that. Or the big bosses allow it for players they want to come back.

To end it all, I checked my players card a day after I left, and it had $94 in comps on it. I only played about 8 hours at $3/5 bets, and only laid down $100 to start, everything else was winnings. I ended up $400 up.

Quote: stinky

I had never seen this before, and was really wondering how they could get away with it.

How they get away with it is simple.

Craps is the only game where verbal declarations are accepted, everywhere else you need hand gestures. If a craps dealer is working for you, and the pit boss didn't hear anything, who's to know? The eye in the sky is deaf....

they would probably appreciate it if you didn't say what happened and name the casino. You can go back and edit that, you know.

True, and don't make a big thing of it when it happens "live" much less afterwards.

They are not dealing with a Boxman who is totally deaf and totally blind. Nor is the Floorperson always going to be somewhere else (Physically or Mentally). If a crew starts getting too lax a boxman will reign them in. No one wants someone loudmouth to start saying something about why I can't I have my hardways stay up when it comes soft. These things will be done in a subtle manner. The dealer heard you say "x dollar odds on my such-and-such" and the dealer verbally acknowledged your bet but then became busy and distracted and forgot to actually obtain the chips from you and properly position them. The dealer is then paying a properly positioned stack of chips for the benefit of the camera. You get the idea. They get the tips. You get some "slack" that they otherwise would not accord you. It happens. If you are an attractive young lady you probably don't have to tip them to get good service. The crew knows that a beautiful woman at a craps table draws players and some of those players may be tippers. The crew knows that if you've been tipping you will get as much slack as they can give you. They know the size of their paychecks and they know the size of the tip pool. Therefore they know which is more important to them.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

How they get away with it is simple.

Craps is the only game where verbal declarations are accepted, everywhere else you need hand gestures. If a craps dealer is working for you, and the pit boss didn't hear anything, who's to know? The eye in the sky is deaf....

That makes more sense. Still it feels good knowing they got my back from time to time. Sucks that it has nothing to do with anything but money. But I'm not gonna fight them when they hand me some extra change here and there.

In general, Laughlin has always had the nicest dealers. I say that from basically playing at almost every casino there. Most of which I wasn't yet a tipper, yet they were always courteous and showed me the ropes of the game, taking odds, and basic etiquette. State line has the worst IME. Vegas is ok, but IMO Laughlin dealers go above and beyond, even before this weekends hook ups.

Maybe I should start playing craps. :) Are "George's" treated better playing blackjack as well? When I was playing BJ at Wynn this past May I would occassionally toke by "dealer plays" (w/quarters). On one hand the dealer's play was an 11 so I doubled it. The dealer's own hand busted so his toke hand won $100. About 10 minutes later a new pit boss came on and the dealer happily related her 'win' to him. The boss glanced at her, said "thats nice," and walked away. Could I have played this into a comp or something?

One thing I like to let people know is that tipping is always appreciated, even if some of the grumpy dealers don't show it. I don't like how in Vegas the tips are pooled, there is no incentive for any dealer to take care of you, but then again if everyone does their share the tip pool will be more. At the card room I work at everyone gets to keep their tips, and even though I am on the bottom rung of the ladder as a chip runner, the buck or two I get from players every once in awhile adds up, that extra hundred or two a week really helps out! If every customer I did a transaction with tipped $1 I would be able to get my own place!

Quote: mantic59

Maybe I should start playing craps. :) Are "George's" treated better playing blackjack as well?

Of course, but not by much since the floor and the surveillance room and just about everyone else watches blackjack like crazy. The tokes won't get you a different card but you will get more time to think if you are hesitating, more time to put a bet in the circle if your attention drifted towards some passing scenery, etc. A BJ dealer can't do that much to help you but he won't do anything to hurt you. If your "average bet" going into that computer is going to be estimated by the floor person, just how generous do you think the estimate will be if the dealers are ecstatic (or even just a bit happier than usual) because they've been getting a few tips on what might otherwise be a really slow night.

Everyone appreciates the tips. One dealer even told me I didn't have to double his hand but he thanked me for it. So the dealer said what he was required to say but made sure I understood that doubling a toke hand is appreciated.

From the dealers side; "George" players do get preferential treatment to some extent. A lot of it has to do with the familiarity of the dealers and box men remembering quality customers. But there is NO TIME EVER that a dealer should leave up a losing bet for a generous player. That's stealing.

Quote: rudeboy99

From the dealers side; "George" players do get preferential treatment to some extent. A lot of it has to do with the familiarity of the dealers and box men remembering quality customers. But there is NO TIME EVER that a dealer should leave up a losing bet for a generous player. That's stealing.

No Threads A member since Dec 21. And now a post about stealing. Is your alias Dan Lubin ?

Quote: FleaStiff

Now is it morally proper to have a crew take a few liberties with a few of a George's bets? No.

It's fine really. You're falling into the same fallacy as Dan, treating casino gambling like any other business transaction. But it isn't. Why are you then not offended by high rollers being offered 20% cashbacks?
Casino gambling is about unwarranted exchange of money. Emphasis on unwarranted (i.e. not for goods or services). The casino knows it when they make their staff live on tips, the staff knows it, you know it, only some can argue that casino gambling is rather about paying EV*action for entertainment, but in their hearts they too know it isn't about that.

Within the terms of Judeo-Xtian morality, gambling is immoral in itself. Within the terms of LaVeyan morality, gambling, shot-taking and cheating are perfectly fine. Maybe there exists a set of morals in which gambling is good, yet cheating is bad. But who is to say that this particular set of morals should be deemed superior to all others?

maybe this discussion could be moved to the religion thread so as not to poison the gambling threads with total nonsense

Quote: WongBo

maybe this discussion could be moved to the religion thread so as not to poison the gambling threads with total nonsense

The post in question has been moved to:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/religion/9163-is-gambling-immoral-split-from-craps-dealers-giving-george-thread/

+1

Well said.

I have been a craps dealer for over 2 years now. If you are a decent person and take care of the crew (even just a little bit), you will absolutely get taken care of. If you don't, you won't. End of story.

Thou shalt not cheat. Thou shalt honor thy debts.

Failing to pay a bet you've lost just because it wasn't done for you breaks at least the latter, and it's a heck of a lot closer to breaking the former than counting or holecarding.

And yet there are those who's motto is " Win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat. "

What I'm taking away from this and other threads is that some dealers outright cheat and steal from their employers and some players are complicit. Is that accurate? Good thing they're not using their minds to do it. ;)

I was about two hours into about a nine hour session when i forgot to play my odds. The boxman notice after i droped my head and had a little mumble under my breath. He told me to drop my bet no the table, so I did. It was a 50$ odds bet. They paid up. I always make a 6 or 12$ two way bet if I make a horn bet or big red. I almost always press my winning bet twice before I pull my winnings and stay in there with me and press theres to. I play on the darkside and the dealers also limit some of the rude comments that some of the other players make. Not all but they try to make them keep it clean.

Quote: sublime815

I have been a craps dealer for over 2 years now. If you are a decent person and take care of the crew (even just a little bit), you will absolutely get taken care of. If you don't, you won't. End of story.

Absolutely my experience at my local establishment. Thanks for confirming.

Quote: sublime815

I have been a craps dealer for over 2 years now. If you are a decent person and take care of the crew (even just a little bit), you will absolutely get taken care of. If you don't, you won't. End of story.

What a surprise, being polite and offering a tip for good service seems to work. Keep up the good work sublime815, we may be the exception, but there are players our there that actually appreciate what you do and how hard it is to deal at the dice table.

I agree with you. I play a lot of craps and always play the hard ways 2 way. If the shooter has made a couple of points I will add a pass line bet for the dealers. Now to your point. I believe the dealers will give you a break now and then as long as it is not obvious (at least I think they have) however all players at the table are treated equally and dealers are friendly to all players. Dealers who are not friendly will not last in a casino. Caesars has comment cards that I use when I have a dealer who is especially nice even if i lose. After all they make their living with tokes. So do not forget to include them in your play or tip them when you cash out.