I am a big winner host ing a “fair” craps game- ethics??
With that being said, I am WAY ahead. I have been “stacked” a few times, but more often then not they give the money RIGHT back and end up losing. I will try to softly “talk them down” when they get crazy and reckless but if they are certain I will allow it.
My question is, is this ethical? My intention with building this table was to have some friends over to “get our rocks off” with no H/E, maybe somebody wins or loses a few bucks but nothing major.
As an aside, we’ve never had a confrontational dispute and even after getting their teeth kicked in, the players agree that the game is fair and I haven’t acted unethically.
I have a bad feeling that running this game is going to come back to bite me.
Quote: unJonWhat is your pass line payout to make it fair?
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Pass/come: you only lose 1/2 your bet on a come out 12
Don’t pass/come: you win 1/2 your bet on a come out 12
Field: 2 and 12 pay triple.
All place/lay bets and all proposition bets pay true odds
Quote: Dyvan13Quote: unJonWhat is your pass line payout to make it fair?
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Pass/come: you only lose 1/2 your bet on a come out 12
Don’t pass/come: you win 1/2 your bet on a come out 12
Field: 2 and 12 pay triple.
All place/lay bets and all proposition bets pay true odds
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That’s clever. Minuscule house edge on pass and player edge on don’t pass.
Quote: unJonQuote: Dyvan13Quote: unJonWhat is your pass line payout to make it fair?
link to original post
Pass/come: you only lose 1/2 your bet on a come out 12
Don’t pass/come: you win 1/2 your bet on a come out 12
Field: 2 and 12 pay triple.
All place/lay bets and all proposition bets pay true odds
link to original post
That’s clever. Minuscule house edge on pass and player edge on don’t pass.
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Perhaps allow others to take turns being the house.
Quote: Dyvan13I modify the payouts to reflect true mathematical odds so there is no house advantage.
With that being said, I am WAY ahead. I have been “stacked” a few times, but more often then not they give the money RIGHT back and end up losing. I will try to softly “talk them down” when they get crazy and reckless but if they are certain I will allow it.
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As I have said before, and explained in more detail but will not repeat here, even if the Baccarat Bank commission were reduced to say 2.5% or even less, still high rollers would be dumping massive bankrolls time after time.
Quote: Dyvan13My question is, is this ethical?
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I would have no problem with that. The easiest money I ever made gambling was dealing blackjack to friends under 21. They had no idea what they doing. It was like taking candy from a baby and they handed it over with a smile on their faces.
Don't inventory them or watch over them, and let people steal them and take them home, cut them open and see that they're fair.
Quote: Dyvan13I live in AZ where (most) gambling is illegal save for tribal lands. However there is a provision in the law legalizing “social gambling”. I built a craps table and my friends come over and play and I am the “house”. I modify the payouts to reflect true mathematical odds so there is no house advantage.
With that being said, I am WAY ahead. I have been “stacked” a few times, but more often then not they give the money RIGHT back and end up losing. I will try to softly “talk them down” when they get crazy and reckless but if they are certain I will allow it.
My question is, is this ethical? My intention with building this table was to have some friends over to “get our rocks off” with no H/E, maybe somebody wins or loses a few bucks but nothing major.
As an aside, we’ve never had a confrontational dispute and even after getting their teeth kicked in, the players agree that the game is fair and I haven’t acted unethically.
I have a bad feeling that running this game is going to come back to bite me.
link to original post
Maybe you can get them to sign a paper stating that they are not allowed to tell the Authorities that you are running an underground gambling game if they want to play with you. 💡 If they turn on you, THEY will be in trouble WITH you, and I highly doubt that they want to take that risk after agreeing in writing to not turn you into the Authorities. 💡
Quote: NathanMaybe you can get them to sign a paper stating that they are not allowed to tell the Authorities that you are running an underground gambling game if they want to play with you. 💡 If they turn on you, THEY will be in trouble WITH you, and I highly doubt that they want to take that risk after agreeing in writing to not turn you into the Authorities. 💡
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Such agreements are unenforceable. If they turn up they may actually be used as further proof of the illegal gambling that was going on there, and the implication that the host was running it all and benefitting.
Unless the event is organized for charity with the pre-approval of the state's Bureau of Gambling Control or the equivalent, there is no legal way to run a casino in your home or business if the players are playing with the ability to win and lose real money.
I suppose you could have participants sign something saying that it is understood that any monies lost will be reimbursed and any monies won must be returned to the house (host), when in reality none of that is really going on and it really is a flat out casino - but still, those will probably end up being used as evidence of a crime rather than to exonerate the host.
Home poker games for real money are legal as long as the host is not taking a rake.
Quote: MDawg
As I have said before, and explained in more detail but will not repeat here, even if the Baccarat Bank commission were reduced to say 2.5% or even less, still high rollers would be dumping massive bankrolls time after time.
very interesting
please link the post where you do explain this
it goes against everything I understand about gambling - which is that in the long run the player's experience will always approach a loss reflecting the house edge
both you and the OP contradict that
your comment, which is most probably accurate, is both understandable and yet at the same time not understandable - to me, anyway
.
They'll feel good will that you're using the money for them, and you'll feel good that you're not being unethical about taking their money. The gambling was entertainment for all!
A Craps or roulette table with no house edge is perfectly legal for home play in Arizona.
math for passline bet with your payoutQuote: unJonQuote: Dyvan13Quote: unJonWhat is your pass line payout to make it fair?
link to original post
Pass/come: you only lose 1/2 your bet on a come out 12
Don’t pass/come: you win 1/2 your bet on a come out 12
Field: 2 and 12 pay triple.
All place/lay bets and all proposition bets pay true odds
link to original post
That’s clever. Minuscule house edge on pass and player edge on don’t pass.
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6/36+2/36+3/36*3/9+4/36*4/10+5/36*5/11+5/36*5/11+4/36*4/10+3/36*3/9-1/36*0.5-1/36-2/36-3/36*6/9-4/36*6/10-5/36*6/11-3/36*6/9-4/36*6/10-5/36*6/11
=-0.0002525252525253
you are winning 1/3960th of every dollar bet!
what I get anyway. The adjustment is in the first amount with a minus sign
Quote: odiousgambitIf the reason you are winning is because the players violate the Kelley Criterion, that is going to catch up to you because any person with income has an actual bankroll that would be hard to bust as they come back for more
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The Kelly Bet on a fair game is $0.
OKQuote: unJonQuote: odiousgambitIf the reason you are winning is because the players violate the Kelley Criterion, that is going to catch up to you because any person with income has an actual bankroll that would be hard to bust as they come back for more
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The Kelly Bet on a fair game is $0.
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so they violate it when they bet anything, as the Kelley is for advantage play, I get it
there must be some math somewhere to state how likely you are to bust your bankroll by your bet size, and it seems that is what is going on
If I ever ran a home craps game that was fair because you got a new shooter on a 7-out, and each got a turn if they want it
1] I'd be worried about getting held up
2] I'd be tempted to act like I was being a nice guy by fading everbody's bet and declining to roll myself, wanting everybody else to have a chance, nice guy that I am
Quote: MDawgAs I have said before, and explained in more detail but will not repeat here, even if the Baccarat Bank commission were reduced to say 2.5% or even less, still high rollers would be dumping massive bankrolls time after time.
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I have been asked to chime in about this. This statement is simply not true. If the commission on the Banker were 2.5%, the player (as in the person making the Banker bet), would have a 0.000886 advantage.
One of the biggest myths in gambling is the casinos makes more than the house edge in games of pure chance like baccarat because of bad money management or limited bankroll of players. This simply isn't true. If you took the aggregate of all bets made on games of chance, you would see the actual house edge extremely close and within expected margins of the actual house edge.
As I have said many times, betting systems not only don't overcome the house edge, they can't even dent it -- in either direction.
