cowboy
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March 18th, 2023 at 10:47:20 AM permalink
Just curious: do most dark side players pass or shoot the dice when they come to them and are there any conditions where you would do the opposite?
pwcrabb
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March 18th, 2023 at 12:22:03 PM permalink
In my own experience, which is of course too small a sample size to generalize, most Don't players do not also serve as shooters. On several occasions, I have observed an entire table unite to play the Dark Side with great hilarity, but only briefly. For those brief periods, someone must shoot.
"I suppose I was mad. Every great genius is mad upon the subject in which he is greatest. The unsuccessful madman is disgraced and called a lunatic." Fitz-James O'Brien, The Diamond Lens (1858)
ChumpChange
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March 18th, 2023 at 12:50:45 PM permalink
Dice always do the opposite of what you want them to. But sure, bet the PL and load up a couple of DC bets.
Ace2
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March 18th, 2023 at 2:34:49 PM permalink
I roll as a don’t bettor.

Players are usually baffled that someone could “bet against himself”, whatever that means
It’s all about making that GTA
Tanko
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March 18th, 2023 at 5:08:55 PM permalink
A lot of players will sit out a Don't shooter.

I bet the Don'ts, but when I get the dice, I shoot from the pass line.

It's one thing to bet against the shooter. Much worse to be shooting from the Don't's against a table full of pass line bettors.
Wizard
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nvr55xx
March 18th, 2023 at 8:30:14 PM permalink
I always pass the dice when playing the don't, and usually do when playing the "do" side. I figure the next player would probably enjoy shooing more than myself (or is it "me").
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
MrV
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March 18th, 2023 at 10:31:46 PM permalink
It is my understanding that a casino will not allow a shooter to roll dem bones without having a PL bet.

Of course and avid DP player could make a small PL bet and a large DP bet.
"What, me worry?"
ChumpChange
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March 19th, 2023 at 3:03:47 AM permalink
Sounds like some weird casino rule. You need a line bet to throw the dice, either PL or DP. My observation is the DP bettors who add 6X odds pass the dice and let the other shooters fail. But some players are barred from throwing the dice for some reason or another and they just bet DP anyway. The suits can be extra finicky.
I would have no problem rolling craps on the come-out and a 7-out once the point gets established, but then my turn is truncated and very short. I'd rather roll 7-11's on the come-out, then have a betting chance at a 20+ roll. I usually have to make-up for what the rest of the table lost me, so that means a long roll. I'll bet DC on a 5-count when it isn't my turn.
odiousgambit
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March 19th, 2023 at 4:14:01 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I always pass the dice when playing the don't, and usually do when playing the "do" side. I figure the next player would probably enjoy shooing more than myself (or is it "me").

use "me-myself" !!
link to original post

I have the conflicting wish of wanting the table to be empty when shooting from the Don't, at least I'm just as happy with that; but I also don't like the dice to come right back to me if I roll the point number, which it does if the table is empty. Lately, I've been shooting the dice since I have some new dice sets I like to use from the Don't . No, I don't think I can really influence the dice results, but it adds fun.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Ace2
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March 19th, 2023 at 11:02:18 AM permalink
To me, shooting the dice is one of the best parts of the game. I’d never pass the dice

On a side note, I’ll often play the don’t for the first point resolution of every shooter, then switch to passline for subsequent points. Though I realize it makes no difference in the long run, I feel like I win on an ice-cold table (shooters not making any points) yet I’ll still partake in the winnings when someone has a monster roll
It’s all about making that GTA
cowboy
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March 19th, 2023 at 12:21:30 PM permalink
Reason I asked was a friend and I went out a couple nights ago to play some craps. He said he would play a 3-point molly and I decided to play a 3-point dolly. But most of the time there was only two of us at the table, and I was winning a lot so I thought it would be even worse for my friend if he were the only one shooting. A few others came and went, but over a two-hour period, it seemed I was the only person who could make a point. I stuck to the dolly though, except once, and then until my friend quit after losing $200. Thankfully for him he was hardly taking odds at all or he would have quit much sooner.

Most of the time my shooting was just as bad as anyone else but once I switched during my roll, after erasing two of my bets and likely ended up even when the seven came. Then when my friend quit, I was the only one at the table and again started erasing my don'ts. I switched with a don't left on the 10, and suddenly decided to put three unit place bets on the 6 and 8, and proceeded to roll six or seven 6s or 8s. With that working, I threw a bet on the Come and cashed a 5 with full odds somewhere in that sequence. When the seven came at last, I had a Come bet and the Don't on the 10 to balance off against the $63 in right side bets that were still on the table. (This was a $5 table.)

I colored out up $525. And this was with playing double odds most of the time, rather than just putting down $30 odds on everything. I got greedy once and put $30 on a 4 and immediately erased it which seems to be something that often happens to me playing either side. I did however go to triple odds on the 6 and 8 for the last hour and a quarter.

It's strange I know this is all confirmation bias or some other bogus thing, but at the end I just "felt" like I was going to roll a bunch of 6s and 8s (and I have done that before). It seemed the more consistently I threw the dice to end up the about the same distance after hitting the back wall, the more 6 and 8 came up. I had a rhythm going, I guess. (no dice setting for this cowboy).

You think to yourself after: "Why didn't I play max odds all night and why didn't I up those place bets when they were hitting?" Hindsight is 20-20, but it seems I've finally learned that getting greedy gets you smacked. Also, it was the right time to leave the table... I think...
nvr55xx
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March 19th, 2023 at 12:31:49 PM permalink
No. You generally have to have either a PASS or DON'T PASS bet (called "line betss") in order to shoot. For example, if you only bet HARD 6, you won't be allowed to shoot the dice. From what I know, if all other "line bet" players refuse, then players who only have HARDWAY and other "prop bets" will be allowed to shoot the dice.

Quote: MrV

It is my understanding that a casino will not allow a shooter to roll dem bones without having a PL bet.

Of course and avid DP player could make a small PL bet and a large DP bet.
link to original post

ChumpChange
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March 19th, 2023 at 12:47:50 PM permalink
I keep seeing these lousy rolls where a DP and laying the 6 & 8 would really pay off for 5 shooters in a row.
Ace2
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March 19th, 2023 at 1:49:37 PM permalink
Quote: nvr55xx

From what I know, if all other "line bet" players refuse, then players who only have HARDWAY and other "prop bets" will be allowed to shoot the dice.

Source?

To my knowledge, you MUST have either a pass or DP bet to shoot. No exceptions. Without line bets,
the dealers wouldn’t have to call or mark points since they are irrelevant

Guess I could test it by walking up to an empty table, make a prop bet (only) and attempt to shoot. I believe the answer would be “not without a P/DP bet”
Last edited by: Ace2 on Mar 19, 2023
It’s all about making that GTA
MrV
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March 19th, 2023 at 2:04:26 PM permalink
I stand corrected: I was conflating this with a conversation with a box man when I wanted to shoot with only a place bet and no line bet: my bad.
"What, me worry?"
Joeman
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March 19th, 2023 at 2:28:15 PM permalink
I will usually pass the dice if I'm betting the Don'ts. Partly to not cause waves, but also because I don't want to shoot myself broke!

Quote: pwcrabb

On several occasions, I have observed an entire table unite to play the Dark Side with great hilarity, but only briefly. For those brief periods, someone must shoot.
link to original post

I had this happen once. The table was ice cold, and the right side players either switched or were soon felted and left. It was indeed a hoot!

Quote: Wizard

I figure the next player would probably enjoy shooing more than myself (or is it "me").
link to original post

I believe it should be, "I figure the next player would probably enjoy shooing more than I." If you are comparing yourself to the subject of the clause (player), you should use the subjective pronoun, "I". This would confer the meaning, "I figure the next player would probably enjoy shooing more than I enjoy shooting."

If you use me (you wouldn't use myself here*), you would be saying, "I figure the next player would probably enjoy shooing more than he would enjoy me!"

* - You would use the reflexive pronoun only if you were also the subject of the sentence. E.g., "I shot craps all by myself."
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
tuttigym
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Ace2
March 19th, 2023 at 4:15:41 PM permalink
I usually pass the dice, however, when I do roll, I use the doey/don't which, of course, allows me the flexibility to play either side.

tuttigym
dwc13
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April 27th, 2023 at 1:26:23 PM permalink
There are only a handful of 'Don't' bettors who regularly shoot at my local casino. If the table is cold, none of them will shoot -- probably out of fear they might inadvertently heat up the table.

There is a parasite at my local casino who table hops, always moving in next to the shooter and then loudly (and late) betting 7s hop for $15/$25/$50 or some combination of 7s hop. Always great to knock his bets off 3 or 4 straight times before he moves on to another table.
Ace2
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RogerKint
April 27th, 2023 at 2:25:49 PM permalink
What was the actual temperature of the cold table ?
It’s all about making that GTA
BillHasRetired
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April 27th, 2023 at 6:03:48 PM permalink
Atlantic City, Wild West Casino, about 10-15 years ago, back when they had the tables under the trestle bridges supporting the model train.

This darksider gets the dice, puts up a DP bet, and shoots. Point was an even number, let's say eight. Throws a bunch of numbers, then hits the hard eight. Joy, cheering, he loses.
Next point was, let's say, six. More numbers, hits the hard six.
Next point, let's say, four. Same damned thing. Hits the hard four for another win. Everyone's raking in chips, he's dying slowly from the DP+odds bets.
Finally, on his fourth point, he finally sevens out.

It was the oddest thing I've ever seen out of a darksider.
Ace2
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April 27th, 2023 at 8:58:29 PM permalink
Why is it odd? A long/monster roll (from the “right” side perspective) is equally probable from a dark side shouter and a right side shooter.
It’s all about making that GTA
BillHasRetired
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April 27th, 2023 at 9:45:08 PM permalink
Quote: Ace2

Why is it odd? A long/monster roll (from the “right” side perspective) is equally probable from a dark side shouter and a right side shooter.
link to original post

Because he threw three points, all won by hardways, and losing (he didn't make any other bets). Oh, sure, every dark-sider wins on their last roll when they seven out, but this guy didn't even try anything right-sided. That's why it was odd.
odiousgambit
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April 28th, 2023 at 5:54:03 AM permalink
Quote: BillHasRetired


Because he threw three points, all won by hardways, and losing (he didn't make any other bets). Oh, sure, every dark-sider wins on their last roll when they seven out, but this guy didn't even try anything right-sided. That's why it was odd.
link to original post

Actually I'll assume an articulate person like you realizes your sense of the consciousness of a Craps table, though very common, doesn't warrant pondering why someone doesn't switch from rightside to darkside or vice versa. I too sort of enjoy indulging superstitions while playing, but I would never write something like "this guy didn't even try anything right-sided"

as far as shooting from the darkside, now that DJTbear has clued me in on what sets to use for dice-setting from the darkside, I'm happy to shoot.

If what I wrote to start with irks you, now is your chance to get even by ridiculing that !!!
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Yoyomama
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April 28th, 2023 at 7:59:34 AM permalink
I can't remember any don't shooters except this couple we called the don't family. He decided to roll the dice, which was unusual for him, and makes 3 points in a roll. It was pretty funny! He gave up the dice and we all begged him to stay! 😂😂😂
BillHasRetired
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odiousgambit
April 28th, 2023 at 8:24:45 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

If what I wrote to start with irks you, now is your chance to get even by ridiculing that !!!
link to original post

OG,
Thanks for complimenting me on being 'articulate', I appreciate it. Also, I really try not to be irked by anyone on here. (shrug) Life is short--why coarsen it by taking offense at every passing comment? (this only applies to me--I am not implying any other member indulges in in this).

Maybe I have a blind spot about this particular incident. But it does remind me of that story about the man atop the roof of his house during a flood, praying for deliverance. The cops, a boat, and a helicopter all offer rescue, but he dismisses them all, assured that God will rescue him. At the Pearly Gates, he confronts God about his drowning. God replies, "What are you talking about? I sent you a cop, a boat, and a helicopter!"

Sure, the first point, and the manner in which it was won could be chalked up to chance, but the second? Third? And still he doesn't alter his strategy?

Anyway, this windmill has been tilted at long enough. I doff my cap, and vacate the field.
Ace2
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RogerKintodiousgambit
April 28th, 2023 at 9:50:10 AM permalink
The other night I saw three shooters consecutively seven out without winning any points. That’s nothing extraordinary, but here’s the strange part: the entire table continued to bet on the pass line! Not a single player switched to don’t pass in order to take advantage of all that great darkside action. Really makes you wonder about these rightside players
It’s all about making that GTA
ChumpChange
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April 28th, 2023 at 10:08:56 AM permalink
I started betting the PB 6 and the other shooters were hitting their PL & points like crazy but could barely muster up 1 to 3 hits on my 6. I made one DC bet and the guy made his point but didn't do a come-out 7 but 7'ed-out so I won that one bet. When I shot, I pressed my PL bets and on my 6th bet increasing to $40, I was kind of hesitant and only put $30 down on the come-out, but put $10 on the odds at the $10 table. I wasn't really gonna consider putting odds on my bets above $30, but it seems like a scheme. I didn't win that bet. I find when I try to set for a PB 6 or 8, I make more 7-outs, so maybe I should press a PB 5 or 9 instead with less chance of a 7-out. I can't even see the dice from the other end of the table.
dwc13
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April 28th, 2023 at 10:15:17 AM permalink
Quote: Ace2

The other night I saw three shooters consecutively seven out without winning any points. That’s nothing extraordinary, but here’s the strange part: the entire table continued to bet on the pass line! Not a single player switched to don’t pass in order to take advantage of all that great darkside action. Really makes you wonder about these rightside players
link to original post



Not unusual nor strange from what I've seen. Plenty of shooters never make a point but some of them actually have decent rolls by repeatedly hitting other box/field numbers. Twice I've been at a table when a shooter hit the All All without making a single point. Did you mean 3 consecutive PSOs? Even then, I wouldn't switch to dark side, though I might modify my betting or move to a different table.
wilbsmitt
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pwcrabb
April 28th, 2023 at 10:41:49 AM permalink
Was at a similar table years ago. Young kid shooting dont pass only, no odds, no DC. The rest of the table rakes in the dough as he makes point after point and hits number after number. He runs out of chips, and the rest of the table throws him some chips so he can continue shooting. After he finally seven outs, the rest of the table throws him more chips. He probably came close to recouping his modest buy-in.
Ace2
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RogerKint
April 28th, 2023 at 11:42:18 AM permalink
Love all the stories about dark side shooters losing their a$$ hitting point after point. Despite all that losing, the FACT is that rightside players will lose a little more than darksiders over the long run due to slightly higher edge

Craps players have got to be the most irrational, superstitious bunch of people. I don’t have a problem with that as long as they keep their strange mathematically incorrect beliefs to themselves at the table
Last edited by: Ace2 on Apr 28, 2023
It’s all about making that GTA
pwcrabb
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April 29th, 2023 at 1:22:34 AM permalink
Mathematically correct microscopes aside, one must not insist upon blind and dogged adherence to one's favorite pattern of dice play. At the very least, when your house is caving in, merely sit out for a while.
"I suppose I was mad. Every great genius is mad upon the subject in which he is greatest. The unsuccessful madman is disgraced and called a lunatic." Fitz-James O'Brien, The Diamond Lens (1858)
GreenBlackGold
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May 3rd, 2023 at 8:37:35 PM permalink
i shoot and at least start my play from the Don't with Place Bets once a point is set. i will switch over if I hit a point and my throws are looking good.

i've heard the same thing about "Betting against yourself" but even the best dice setters in the world POS. i find i really need a hedge when my Place Bets are exposed.
odiousgambit
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May 4th, 2023 at 9:51:32 AM permalink
Quote: GreenBlackGold

i shoot and at least start my play from the Don't with Place Bets once a point is set. i will switch over if I hit a point and my throws are looking good.

i've heard the same thing about "Betting against yourself" but even the best dice setters in the world POS. i find i really need a hedge when my Place Bets are exposed.
link to original post



You're new here so I won't pounce all over you for posting about hedging and other gambler's fallacies. Stick around and hopefully you'll pick up some better ideas

Hedging is not smart gambling as a rule, it benefits the House [in a sense] by reducing your variance in a game with negative expectation. In other words, you are expected to lose in the long run, and by hedging you make it happen in the short run.

It's natural to want to hedge in a game like Craps. You can even make the case that many of the betting patterns you see are too high in variance. The basic game, though, is low in variance, so this means there are better ways to go than hedging.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Ace2
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May 4th, 2023 at 12:26:06 PM permalink
Quote: GreenBlackGold

i shoot and at least start my play from the Don't with Place Bets once a point is set. i will switch over if I hit a point and my throws are looking good.

i've heard the same thing about "Betting against yourself" but even the best dice setters in the world POS. i find i really need a hedge when my Place Bets are exposed.
link to original post

”betting against yourself” is a term I’ll never understand

I’m betting that a seven comes before the point so I win
It’s all about making that GTA
MDawg
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May 4th, 2023 at 1:46:13 PM permalink
The Phantom Gambler's bets at Binion's, the first of which was for $777,777 in 1980, were all on the Don't Pass line. It does appear that he was not the shooter for any of the rolls. It looks like he won $1.432777 million over two trips, but lost a million (the shooter rolled a winning 7 on the come out) in one roll on the third try. He committed suicide a couple months later.

If the entire table is cheering and the entire table is winning together on the Pass and someone comes along and throws a nickel (nowadays that would be a quarter, not too many nickel tables left) on the Don't, that is considered to be a jerk off impolite move. But I suppose if the player is putting down serious money against the Pass line shooter such as the way the Phantom Gambler was, that enters the level of demanding respect.

In your case you seem to be describing your own roll, and since you're not going to get the dice until the prior shooter has crapped out on the Pass (or won on the Don't, if he's like you), I suppose whatever you are doing craps etiquette wise isn't necessarily against the current direction of the table.

For most gamblers it's not just about mathematics but about having fun at the table and for whatever reason, Pass line shooters view Don't pass players as raining on their parade. Also, the shooting rules of the game are that the dice are not passed while a shooter continues to make the Pass, which means that the over all continuity etiquette of the game is geared towards Passes.

Do you ever hear about how many Don't passes shooters made in a row? But you do hear about how many Passes were made on some storied night.

I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
GreenBlackGold
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May 4th, 2023 at 8:59:49 PM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

Quote: GreenBlackGold

i shoot and at least start my play from the Don't with Place Bets once a point is set. i will switch over if I hit a point and my throws are looking good.

i've heard the same thing about "Betting against yourself" but even the best dice setters in the world POS. i find i really need a hedge when my Place Bets are exposed.
link to original post



You're new here so I won't pounce all over you for posting about hedging and other gambler's fallacies. Stick around and hopefully you'll pick up some better ideas

Hedging is not smart gambling as a rule, it benefits the House [in a sense] by reducing your variance in a game with negative expectation. In other words, you are expected to lose in the long run, and by hedging you make it happen in the short run.

It's natural to want to hedge in a game like Craps. You can even make the case that many of the betting patterns you see are too high in variance. The basic game, though, is low in variance, so this means there are better ways to go than hedging.
link to original post



definitely appreciate your advice.

i have a goal. i really only have this one goal for craps. my goal is to never miss a big roll. i'm not interested in grinding out a profit. i'm not interested in getting up and now i'm up so i'm out of here. i'm not interested in winning in the long run. my goal is to stay on the table as long as i can using a DP/DP odds to start covering my Place Bets. I am always pressing/power pressing/taking but never regressing on the Place Bets.- in order to be there for those big rolls and take full advantage of them from the earliest time possible and for as long as possible. i do decrease my DP odds/DP as Place Bets are paid. this is my goal and my strategy is IMO the best way to do it. when i determine the shooter is worthy to bet on fully (i.e. my Place Bets are paid) then I switch to the PL. and continue on my strategic power pressing/pressing/taking.

if i had another goal. like Daily Bankroll or i've got 45 minutes to play or I want to make 50% profit and then i'm done. or i want two hits and then i'm down or something else then i can appreciate a hedge would not be ideal and there would be better ways.

i've been working on this strategy for quite awhile. i've real life tested it on several occasions. it doesn't win all of the time. but it doesn't lose quickly, the losses can be managed and the wins can be/have been big! POS, 2, 3 or 4 rollers and out - don't bother me at all. I don't make money on those, but more importantly I don't lose money (+/- $25)

i've got a good 4 day test coming up. Since the strategy hedges (at least for a time) with the DP and DP Odds it is vulnerable to the Come Out Red/Yo and to the quick points, but otherwise my bets are safe and i stay relatively even until a big roll - as quickly as 5 rolls (but more likely 10-16 rolls) to start pulling in greens, likely 15-20 for blacks. 25 and you are flirting with purple. i've had my $15 - 5 (take @) $1000 and ready to press to $2000 on the next one. NOW THAT'S FUN !!!

i always am on the hunt for better ideas, great strategies and look forward to learning from you guys here as i've just found this site.
Last edited by: GreenBlackGold on May 4, 2023
ChumpChange
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May 4th, 2023 at 9:58:40 PM permalink
So put $10 on the DP and $30 odds and $12 on the PB 6 & 8 each? Press-up the progression on the PB 6 & 8? It might beat $64 across, but I'm not really in-tune with these plays.
5 out of 6 shooters don't make more than 2 points. On Bubble Craps, Hot Shooters (20+ rolls) shouldn't be expected more frequently than once an hour on average, but they could bunch-up or be a dearth.
If the DP point is 6 or 8, I'd move the corresponding PB to the 5 or 9.
I think I prefer a $25 minimum for a progression on the 5 & 9, but I could do it with $15.
I mean I could just bet $10 DP with $30 odds and bet $25 on the PB 5 or 9 (for only 1 place bet.). If I get further along, I could bet $10 DP with $60 odds and bet $25 on the PB 5 & 9 (for only 2 place bets). If the DP point becomes a 5 or 9, I could move the corresponding PB 5/9 to a PB 6 or 8 for $24 or $36 or $48 depending on how far in the progression on the PB 5 or 9 I've gotten.
My daily sessions are usually 2 to 4 hours long.
Last edited by: ChumpChange on May 4, 2023
odiousgambit
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May 5th, 2023 at 8:28:00 AM permalink
Quote: GreenBlackGold

i have a goal. i really only have this one goal for craps. my goal is to never miss a big roll. ...
link to original post

OK I think we can say wanting to be there for the big rolls keeps a lot of people playing... one reason anyway. That's me too if the table minimums are low enough, lately that's a problem. When the mins get uncomfortable I go totally darkside, max odds, short session. Doesn't that mean you can play for big streaks of 7-outs? Actually it means, for the darkside with odds, that becomes your reason for playing, because you have to roughly win two thirds of the time 7-out versus point-made to even come out ahead at all! But I digress.

I still question the need to hedge in order to be there for the big long rolls. You still have the problem of not knowing when that is going to happen. Yeah, you can see it start to happen, but then find out it ended just as you started to bet for it. This just stays elusive, you either have to take risks or miss out, there's no in-between. And when you think you need to lower risk, though you will be guessing still, there's better ways.

The only thing I'll give you is if the way you bet in low risk mode gives you the illusion of excitement, at least you'll have that. I'm fairly sure that won't last.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
GreenBlackGold
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May 5th, 2023 at 9:14:04 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

Quote: GreenBlackGold

i have a goal. i really only have this one goal for craps. my goal is to never miss a big roll. ...
link to original post

OK I think we can say wanting to be there for the big rolls keeps a lot of people playing... one reason anyway. That's me too if the table minimums are low enough, lately that's a problem. When the mins get uncomfortable I go totally darkside, max odds, short session. Doesn't that mean you can play for big streaks of 7-outs? Actually it means, for the darkside with odds, that becomes your reason for playing, because you have to roughly win two thirds of the time 7-out versus point-made to even come out ahead at all! But I digress.

I still question the need to hedge in order to be there for the big long rolls. You still have the problem of not knowing when that is going to happen. Yeah, you can see it start to happen, but then find out it ended just as you started to bet for it. This just stays elusive, you either have to take risks or miss out, there's no in-between. And when you think you need to lower risk, though you will be guessing still, there's better ways.

The only thing I'll give you is if the way you bet in low risk mode gives you the illusion of excitement, at least you'll have that. I'm fairly sure that won't last.
link to original post




You are exactly correct. You do not know when the big roll is going to happen, it can remain elusive and normally you have to take the risk (go in on it as if it was a big roll from the beginning) or miss out. There wasn't and hasn't been an "In-Between" strategy. So I developed one.

It is playable on every roller. It is the least risk, this is going to be a big roll strategy, take advantage of the percentages, be patient. up or down $100 is no big deal. losing your DP on the Come Out is no big deal. Oh here comes a big roll, i'm already on it and my illusion of excitement just paid me $500 !!!! LOL and we are still rolling. Table max anyone?

I looked at writing a .bet file for my strategy to run big numbers on it, but trying to figure out how to put it together was so damn confusing. If anyone reading this is interested in helping me put together the testing file I will be happy to share my strategy with you guys and let's see what the numbers say.
Ace2
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May 5th, 2023 at 6:12:28 PM permalink
Bottom line: it’s better to play the don’t at a cold table
It’s all about making that GTA
ChumpChange
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May 5th, 2023 at 7:57:49 PM permalink
Maybe a cold table only comes around once an hour, but it takes a dozen shooters with it.
ChumpChange
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May 6th, 2023 at 9:21:52 AM permalink
Oof! 7-outs on the play!
A Craps Strategy to Lose Less and Play All Day - Casino Quest
Ace2
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September 14th, 2023 at 2:13:04 PM permalink
Question for craps experts (tourists need not reply):

What’s the minimum odds bet on the don’t side?

For instance at a $50 minimum table, with point of 4 established, is the minimum DP odds bet $50 or $100? $100 being the win amount on a $50 minimum passline single odds bet

The max odds on DP are the win amounts of max passline odds. Not sure if they apply the same principle to the minimum
It’s all about making that GTA
Tanko
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September 14th, 2023 at 2:43:06 PM permalink
Quote: Ace2

What’s the minimum odds bet on the don’t side?

For instance at a $50 minimum table, with point of 4 established, is the minimum DP odds bet $50 or $100?



$2

Single odds for a $50 don't bet behind the 4 is $100, but you can lay a fraction of that.
unJon
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September 14th, 2023 at 5:14:52 PM permalink
Quote: Ace2

Question for craps experts (tourists need not reply):

What’s the minimum odds bet on the don’t side?

For instance at a $50 minimum table, with point of 4 established, is the minimum DP odds bet $50 or $100? $100 being the win amount on a $50 minimum passline single odds bet

The max odds on DP are the win amounts of max passline odds. Not sure if they apply the same principle to the minimum
link to original post



Only tourists make min odds bets.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
ChallengedMilly
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September 15th, 2023 at 11:30:25 AM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

Maybe a cold table only comes around once an hour, but it takes a dozen shooters with it.
link to original post

I think it's well known amongst craps dealers that most tables are cold most of the day. In your average shift they rarely see a 30+ roll. If they do, it's one of a few that day.

Imho choppy table strats should become the norm for betting if more craps players played along with the true variance we see at any given time. Most points aren't being made. Of the points that do, usually it's the same people being incredibly lucky. Dark sider that uses a count system is going to make bank in the short term.
Ace2
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September 15th, 2023 at 12:10:48 PM permalink
I remember playing RollToWin (electronic table) and this tourist next to me went like 35 rolls. She said it was her first time to play

Speaking of which, is RollToWin a flop? I remember seeing some tables a couple years ago…not so much these days
It’s all about making that GTA
Tanko
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September 16th, 2023 at 7:48:16 AM permalink
Quote: unJon

Only tourists make min odds bets.



Careful laying odds on the 4 or the 10. The variance can be enormous. A single hot shooter will hit you like a bolt of lightning.

Played three hours beside a regular at PARX last month, who brought his game.

His set was a 2 stacked on top of a six, every roll. He had a good roll every time he had the dice. Combined, he rolled five come out 4's and made four of them.
ChumpChange
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September 16th, 2023 at 8:12:57 AM permalink
Roll To Win which has some kind of plexiglass table people can shoot dice on suffers from being categorized as a slot machine in some if not all areas of the country because of its digital kiosk areas for each bettor. It's OK for low rollers, but if you intend on hitting wins totaling $1,200+ including your bet, find a real table. People who like to power-press their bets to the limit may find a real table a better choice. But if your real table only has a $2K max and your Roll To Win table has a $5K limit, you may not care about your kiosk getting locked up in the middle of a roll while awaiting a hand pay.
ChallengedMilly
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September 16th, 2023 at 2:46:53 PM permalink
Quote: Ace2

I remember playing RollToWin (electronic table) and this tourist next to me went like 35 rolls. She said it was her first time to play

Speaking of which, is RollToWin a flop? I remember seeing some tables a couple years ago…not so much these days
link to original post

Apparently one or two of the manufacturers went belly up due to covid? Also they've been semi-exploitable by really bad (cheating...) dealers, absent minded dealers, and I suspect even DI guys that get away with sliding the dice rather than throwing at the back wall. If you google 'casino dealer arrested' there's a case from just this month where a dealer was arrested for inputting the wrong numbers into the machine and also doing a "delayed" key in. His crew walked away with about $90,000 before being caught.

Some casinos do still have them though.
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