ChumpChange
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
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September 8th, 2022 at 5:27:14 AM permalink
On bubble craps there's place to lose bets, but I've been assured that since it's vig after a win, it's only advantageous over laying the 6 or 8.
unJon
unJon
Joined: Jul 1, 2018
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September 8th, 2022 at 8:17:07 AM permalink
Quote: ChallengedMilly

So far up $800 using a progression dark side strategy, hedging a lay against the come out 7s. Essentially every roll I'm adding 1x, 2x, or 3x to the lay while maximizing odds. Biggest loss was $240, biggest win in the $500s. Ironically i bet against myself on that $240 loss... ended up making 9 and come out 7/11 points in a row... yup. Come out 7, then point 9, then 9 again, then 11, then point 4(and I did the classic "oh shit let's martingale this lay on 4...") yup point 4. The $500 win was a sweat against a shooter that had done back to back 20+ rolls, but he couldn't hit his point to save his life.

This casino allows place to lose bets, but I'm assuming those are worse than just laying correct? In terms of payout. Vig only on wins.
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If the place to lose bets work as described on the wizard of odds site (https://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/basics/) and comparing it to the lay bets with commission paid on win only:

House edge per bet resolved
6/8
Lay: 2.27%
PTL: 1.82%

5/9
Lay: 2.00%
PTL: 2.5%

4/10
Lay: 1.67%
PTL: 3.03%

So better to place to lose the 6/8 and lay the others. Though better house edge wise to donít pass and donít come with odds!
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
pwcrabb
pwcrabb
Joined: May 15, 2010
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September 11th, 2022 at 11:51:43 AM permalink
Dark Side play per Panos Andreas

Bet DP, get Point, and then Lay large Odds for only one roll. Calculate the net amount that a winning DP with Odds would return. Bet large DC for that net amount. If Red occurs next roll then DP win equals DC loss.

If instead large DC bet travels to behind separate Point then remove DP Odds Laid against Line Point. Now no Odds are Laid against either Point. Advantage for Darkside Player on both bets, one of which is large. No dilution of advantages. Few targets for mishaps. Enjoy both advantages and await results.

Example $15 DP Comeout Point 9. Lay $90 against 9 for total possible net win of $60 plus $15. Bet $75 DC, get Point 6. Remove Lay Odds against Point 9. No more bets.
"I suppose I was mad. Every great genius is mad upon the subject in which he is greatest. The unsuccessful madman is disgraced and called a lunatic." Fitz-James O'Brien, The Diamond Lens (1858)
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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September 11th, 2022 at 2:19:05 PM permalink
Quote: pwcrabb

Dark Side play per Panos Andreas

Bet DP, get Point, and then Lay large Odds for only one roll. Calculate the net amount that a winning DP with Odds would return. Bet large DC for that net amount. If Red occurs next roll then DP win equals DC loss.

If instead large DC bet travels to behind separate Point then remove DP Odds Laid against Line Point. Now no Odds are Laid against either Point. Advantage for Darkside Player on both bets, one of which is large. No dilution of advantages. Few targets for mishaps. Enjoy both advantages and await results.

Example $15 DP Comeout Point 9. Lay $90 against 9 for total possible net win of $60 plus $15. Bet $75 DC, get Point 6. Remove Lay Odds against Point 9. No more bets.
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Interesting. Really illustrates the HE on come-out wins and losses is important for the darksider, and that is not avoided. The rest seems logical but I think it is really the same as not betting the odds at all?
The Dice, the cards, they not only have no sense of justice but are seemingly endowed with a sense of cruel irony. This devolves from the 'nature of random'. Ironically, don't you see. 

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