AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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September 3rd, 2022 at 4:23:00 AM permalink
I admit I bet craps incorrectly. But my incorrect way of betting craps is comfortable for me and (I think) keeps me playing longer for less money.

I've been playing this way ever since Bonus Craps became standard at most casinos.

For discussion purposes let's say it's a $10 table.

I will always bet Bonus craps with $5 each on the Small. Tall, All. That's $15 total.

I'll have $25 on the pass line. (Yes. At a $10 table.)

I'll have a $5 horn high ace deuce on the cone out.

My reasoning:

For any seven on the come out I make $5 and all my bets stay up. If a point is set I lose $5 and the game is on.

For any horn number I profit $1, $2 or $11 (where i play) and i have a number towards the Bonus.

Now my real terrible sin and what I've been highly criticized for:

If a point is set, my bassline odds at a $10 table are usually only $10... even though my flat bet is $25.

I've been called nuts and worse by dealers and players but my reasoning is simple:

Betting more on the odds do not influence the dice to hit the point.

My second sin:

I don't start pressing until enough numbers have been thrown that I've won back my initial outlay. And my initial outlay at a $10 table includes $52 or $54 across plus $15 on the Bonus, and $5 on the cone out for the horn high ace-deuce, and the $25 pass plus $10 odds which totals $109.

So before I start to press I typically need a pass plus about 5 numbers to hit.

It helps when 4s and 10s hit or if an 11 is thrown on the come out which makes me $25 + $11 = $36 which almost pays for the $52 or $54 across.

My pressing: once I've won back my initial outlay I make baby step presses, adding only $5 or $6 to each number thrown.

Arguments against my betting: I fall way behind if the shooter makes numbers and points. Yes, I know that.

Advantage of my betting: I last longer at a "cold table."

Case in point:

I recently played with a $300 buy in. Another player at my table made a $3,000 buy in. I outlasted him because he not only was betting bigger starting with 10X odds on the pass line, but he was making full presses starting with the very first roll after the point was established.

Clearly this other player would have won more with a hot shooter but he was no longer at the table when a player threw the ALL which paid me $1065 for my $15 bet on the Small, Tall, All.

Fire away.
TumblingBones
TumblingBones
Joined: Dec 25, 2016
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September 3rd, 2022 at 6:03:02 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

I admit I bet craps incorrectly.

No argument there.
Quote: AlanMendelson


Now my real terrible sin and what I've been highly criticized for:

If a point is set, my bassline odds at a $10 table are usually only $10... even though my flat bet is $25.

I've been called nuts and worse by dealers and players but my reasoning is simple:

Betting more on the odds do not influence the dice to hit the point.

link to original post


Betting more on the odds won't influence the dice but it will change how much you win or lose. Look at some possible outcomes for a $25 flat bet vs $10 with $15 odds:
1) Come-out roll is a 2, 3, or 12: loss of $25 for your flat bet vs loss of $10 for the $10/$15 bet
2) Point is 4, which shooter makes: flat betting wins $25; odds betting wins $40
3) Point is 4 but shooter craps out: both strategies lose $25
My goal of being well informed conflicts with my goal of remaining sane.
unJon
unJon
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September 3rd, 2022 at 6:14:19 AM permalink
I won稚 give you a hard time about how you play. I do agree with post above mine. You値l last longer if you switch to a $10 pass line and $25 odds bet rather than a $25 pass line and $10 odds bet.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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September 3rd, 2022 at 6:20:59 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

[snips] ... If a point is set, my bassline odds at a $10 table are usually only $10... even though my flat bet is $25.

I've been called nuts and worse by dealers and players but my reasoning is simple:

Betting more on the odds do not influence the dice to hit the point.

Yep, nuts. You say you know better now. I assume you mean you know it is better to put $10 on the line bet and $25 on the odds if you want the total bet to be $35. Why are you finding it so hard to change?

Quote:

My second sin:

I don't start pressing until enough numbers have been thrown that I've won back my initial outlay.

About this one I have no criticism. I *would* suggest pressing with odds only since you have 'room' to do so. I would except it would be so strongly resisted I'd be wasting my breath.
link to original post

You have a third sin. Look, we Craps players, besides maybe the newbies or the almost-never-play types, are going to want more action than just the line bet. And more variance than just the line bet, probably even more important. So you are not a sinner because you want more action with higher variance ... it's the bets you are choosing. Maybe until recently it was too hard for the average guy to know the house edge on the bets. This is all readily available now.
The Dice, the cards, they not only have no sense of justice but are seemingly endowed with a sense of cruel irony. This devolves from the 'nature of random'. Ironically, don't you see. 
tuttigym
tuttigym
Joined: Feb 12, 2010
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September 3rd, 2022 at 7:31:10 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson



I don't start pressing until enough numbers have been thrown that I've won back my initial outlay. And my initial outlay at a $10 table includes $52 or $54 across plus $15 on the Bonus, and $5 on the cone out for the horn high ace-deuce, and the $25 pass plus $10 odds which totals $109.

Advantage of my betting: I last longer at a "cold table."


Forgive my confusion, but after the point is established, you have $89 at risk for the ensuing rolls. Most hands last about 4-5 rolls before a final outcome. If there is a "cold table," say immediate 7 outs, you will lose $89 or a large portion thereof.
1. How does this "cold table" create a longer run for your small $300 bankroll ($267 loss or thereabouts)?
2. You would need to hit at least 6 PB's to break even with the initial wagers on the table. Isn't that scenario a bit unlikely?

tuttigym
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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Thanks for this post from:
AlanMendelson
September 3rd, 2022 at 8:05:26 AM permalink
I think you're getting the reactions at the table that you're getting because you're putting your biggest bet on the pass line - an even money bet.

I also think that prior responders, and certainly people at the table as well, are missing the reason WHY you're putting your biggest bet on the pass line - to cover bets that lose on a come out 7, namely the horn and ATS bets.

Here's an alternative you might consider:

$10 pass, and $6 hopping red.

On a come out 7, you'll win $10 for the pass, plus $24 for the hop. $34 instead of $25. If there's no come out 7, you can put down $20 odds, making the total investment only one dollar more that your original post indicates.

On a come out 2, 3 or 12, your horn bet does a better job of covering the pass and hop bets that lost.

Then...
If the shooter makes the point and/or has a come out 7, you're way ahead, and don't get any funny looks or negative comments.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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September 3rd, 2022 at 8:52:57 AM permalink
aren't bets 'off' on the come-out that might lose with a 7 rolled?

[I have to ask since I never make center table bets except on the rarest of occasions, some literally never]
The Dice, the cards, they not only have no sense of justice but are seemingly endowed with a sense of cruel irony. This devolves from the 'nature of random'. Ironically, don't you see. 
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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Thanks for this post from:
odiousgambit
September 3rd, 2022 at 10:31:57 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

aren't bets 'off' on the come-out that might lose with a 7 rolled? link to original post

Yes, but horn bets (2, 3, 11, 12) are not only on, they are particularly popular on come out rolls.

The ATS loses on any 7, even a come out 7. You can kind of stupid since the odds would be exactly the same if the come out roll didn稚 count.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Ace2
Ace2
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September 3rd, 2022 at 11:04:57 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson


My reasoning

THAT'S your problem right there. Always is and it costs you a ton of money
It痴 all about making that GTA
MrV
MrV
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
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September 3rd, 2022 at 11:23:17 AM permalink
This seems a classic Alan move to basically "ignore" the math and favor his own innumerate system.

Nothing "wrong" with it so long as he has fun I suppose, but savvy crapsters who follow the math will cringe (see posts above).
"What, me worry?"

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