Home game: odds printed on felt are wrong?

The last time I was in Vegas I bought a bunch of gambling paraphernalia. Which I hardly ever get to use. A dozen decks of cards, automatic shuffler, shoe, discards rack, felt for blackjack, casino dice, on/off marker, and felt for craps. Oh, and a stick. Man, what a pain that was. It didn't fit in my luggage so I had to hand carry it the entire way, including placing it carefully in the overhead bin, walking through customs with it, and taking it home on the train from Shanghai (I live overseas). After a while I just started to treat it like a walking cane, I don't think anyone batted an eye at it.

Well, two nights ago I finally got to use it for the first time. A friend proposed poker night (I suck at poker and especially despise Hold 'em) and I counter-proposed with craps and blackjack. Well they didn't go for blackjack but I did get them to play craps for a while. They loved it. I didn't allow the come/don't come bets and place bets because honestly I didn't remember how they worked, and they were all beginners so it was too complicated for them anyway. They played a lot of prop bets (I even got some takers for Big 8) and sure enough they came up often. They all had a great time and 3 out of 4 of them won money, which I dutifully paid out.

Upon getting home I went on Wizard of Odds to learn how those come and place bets worked. I remember this site from back in the day as being a great source of reliable information. However, it states in all its math:

Any craps (2, 3, or 12) 7 to 1
Any seven 4 to 1

On my felt, and on every piece of craps felt I can find in this country, it says 8 to 1 for any craps and 5 to 1 for any seven. I don't think I can just scratch it out, it's preprinted felt. What should I do?

I'd post a link to the photos but despite being a member of this forum since 2016 evidently I can't post links because I don't have enough posts.

Are you sure they don't say 8 for 1 instead of 8 to 1?

I think you need ten posts to post pictures so just make two more replies to this thread.

Quote: billryan

Are you sure they don't say 8 for 1 instead of 8 to 1?

I think you need ten posts to post pictures so just make two more replies to this thread.
link to original post

I think it may be more than ten.

I also think that mods generally can receive PM's with links, evaluate them for not-spam, and post as their gracious benevolence allows.

That's not the (mathematical) odds, that's the payout. The payout can be anything the casino wants it to be, likewise the company that printed your felt.

Quote: chuser

Upon getting home I went on Wizard of Odds to learn how those come and place bets worked. I remember this site from back in the day as being a great source of reliable information. However, it states in all its math:

Any craps (2, 3, or 12) 7 to 1
Any seven 4 to 1

On my felt, and on every piece of craps felt I can find in this country, it says 8 to 1 for any craps and 5 to 1 for any seven. I don't think I can just scratch it out, it's preprinted felt. What should I do?

link to original post

5 to 1 for Any 7 and 8 to 1 for Any Craps would make both of those bets zero house edge. Something tells me that billyryan is correct, and that what you have seen are "5 for 1" (4 to 1) and "8 for 1" (7 to 1).

I can try to post the link without the http, you'll have to copy & paste

m?spm=a230r.1.14.33.70f676b5Dl0r6a&id=662542291343

g

Eh, I tried, but it's not letting me post anything that remotely looks like a URL. And it's 20 posts required, not 10. :(

What's the difference between 5 for 1 and 5 to 1?

If you go to Taobao dot com and search for 'craps' you'll see one that looks like mine, it's a garish red->yellow gradient for all the text.

Quote: chuser

What's the difference between 5 for 1 and 5 to 1?
link to original post

5 for 1 means that if you win, the 5 you get back includes your initial bet of 1.

5 to 1 means you get back your initial 1 plus 5 more.

"N for 1" is the same as "(N - 1) to 1".

Quote: chuser

If you go to Taobao dot com and search for 'craps' you'll see one that looks like mine, it's a garish red->yellow gradient for all the text.
link to original post

I went. I saw.

All pays are listed in garish red-yellow gradient as "for" pays.

The taobao website strongly encourages people to create an account to see item details. I decline to repost the clearly copyrighted photographic image.


As to the difference, 8 for 1 means you take my 1 chip and give me 8 when I win. 7 to 1 means you put 7 chips next to my 1 chip when I win.
Little, if any, mathematical difference.

Quote: chuser

What's the difference between 5 for 1 and 5 to 1?
link to original post

Read this article.
https://tunicatravel.com/blog/2018/03/gaming-odds-explained-30-to-1-vs-31-for-1/

It explains the notion of "for 1" vs "to 1". And gives a possible explanation for why in some instances one way of expressing it may be preferred over another.

How do the casino workers explain this? When a bettor puts down a $1 bet on 8 for 1 and is expecting to get $8 back and instead gets $7? My friends don't know how to play and could think I'm trying to juice them.

Quote: chuser

How do the casino workers explain this? When a bettor puts down a $1 bet on 8 for 1 and is expecting to get $8 back and instead gets $7? My friends don't know how to play and could think I'm trying to juice them.
link to original post

They get $8 back. But you keep their $1 bet. They get $8 “for” $1.

Or do $8 to $1 if you want. Nothing wrong with running a zero house edge home game.

Here is a question.

Does the home team have any advantage at all is USFL games? My assumption would be that they do not but I am also not familiar with all of their rules.

Quote: DRich

Here is a question.

Does the home team have any advantage at all is USFL games? My assumption would be that they do not but I am also not familiar with all of their rules.
link to original post

Wrong thread?

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Quote: DRich

Here is a question.

Does the home team have any advantage at all is USFL games? My assumption would be that they do not but I am also not familiar with all of their rules.
link to original post

Wrong thread?
link to original post

Sorry. I saw home game listed and thought it was the sports thread.

Quote: chuser

How do the casino workers explain this? When a bettor puts down a $1 bet on 8 for 1 and is expecting to get $8 back and instead gets $7? My friends don't know how to play and could think I'm trying to juice them.
link to original post

I've seen some creative dealer responses to this, particularly when it's not busy.

The best was, after the player complained, the dealer said, "Oh, OK. Put the $7 back down."

The dealer then takes the $7 back, adds $1 from the bank, and pushes the $8 to the player who picks it up. Then the dealer takes the $1 bet and puts it into the bank. "Yep. That's $8 won FOR the $1 bet."

Then he says to the player, "Did you want that bet again?" Player nods yes. "OK, drop $1." Dealer takes the $1 and puts the bet back up.

"OK, you're back to $7. (Pause for it to sink in.) And since most people do want the bet back up, we just do it automatically. And don't feel bad. Lots of players have to have that explained to them the first time."