darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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December 10th, 2018 at 8:41:58 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Besides the chips in the dice theory, how does the machine know what sides the dice landed on?



The chips in the dice is fact. They use RFID

Thats precisely how the machine knows which side the die landed on

RFID chips in the die send out an electro-magnetic signal which tells the computer the correct result

I saw what was apparently a usage of that electro-magnetic signal to create a dice movement

Im not an electrical engineer so cant say more on it other than what I witnessed and the reply I got from the technician

I do not believe the casinos are manipulating the dice. Im just reporting what I saw and postulating that it is possible to do so
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
darkoz
darkoz
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December 10th, 2018 at 8:45:12 AM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

It may have happened that way in his mind. Most of the conclusions he and ZK come to are twisted stories of mixed fact and fiction.

Yes, there are sensors in the machines to tell what the dice roll is. Of course there are. There's not tiny men that live in the machine doing data entry.

No, they can't "activate these sensors or the games computer chips or anything else to create a number on the die they want or don't want.

He didn't watch a lady for a week straight either. A few minutes, a few hours, maybe. I week straight? Lol.

As with all conspiracy theorists, they take actual events and manipulate them to their liking.


ZCore13



Zcore

As Wiz will attest I was doing what I refer to in other posts as my NY AP move (which I have yet to reveal here except to a few like the Wiz)

I was doing this move for approximately 5-6 hours a day at bubble craps

So yes I observed her for an entire week. Approximately 40 plus gaming hours in my estimation
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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December 10th, 2018 at 8:54:25 AM permalink
Quote: unJon

Do you know whether or not the sensors are in the dice?



There is a little bit more info on it here

https://www.atlanticcityweekly.com/blogs/mr_ac_casino/electronic-craps-shaken-not-rolled/article_8c0288f5-b041-5fd2-b897-07eb9ca61199.html
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
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December 10th, 2018 at 9:39:34 AM permalink
I don't think the RFID chips do anything but reflect their position within the dice to an outside sensor. Making the die tip like magic sounds like a separate magnet reset switch. Some of these bubble craps machines will roll the same number 10 out of 12 times at some point, and don't casinos check the dice for magnets at real craps tables?
Will Magnets Disrupt RFID Chips? | Techwalla.com https://www.techwalla.com/articles/will-magnets-disrupt-rfid-chips
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
Joined: May 8, 2015
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December 10th, 2018 at 10:29:52 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Zcore

As Wiz will attest I was doing what I refer to in other posts as my NY AP move (which I have yet to reveal here except to a few like the Wiz)

I was doing this move for approximately 5-6 hours a day at bubble craps





it's been several hours since your post and Wiz hasn't attested to anything
"𝘣𝘦𝘭𝘪𝘦𝘷𝘦 𝘩𝘢𝘭𝘧 𝘰𝘧 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘴𝘦𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘯𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘩𝘦𝘢𝘳"______Edgar Allan Poe
charliepatrick
charliepatrick
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December 10th, 2018 at 10:33:06 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

... https://www.atlanticcityweekly.com/blogs/mr_ac_casino/electronic-craps-shaken-not-rolled/article_8c0288f5-b041-5fd2-b897-07eb9ca61199.html ...

fyi this site doesn't work in the EU (c.f. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44248448 - I think there are a fair number of US sites, that due to the recent General Data Protection Regulation in the EU, have yet to be updated to work here.)
cwazy
cwazy
Joined: Mar 18, 2016
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December 10th, 2018 at 11:23:34 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

The chips in the dice is fact. They use RFID

Thats precisely how the machine knows which side the die landed on

RFID chips in the die send out an electro-magnetic signal which tells the computer the correct result

I saw what was apparently a usage of that electro-magnetic signal to create a dice movement

Im not an electrical engineer so cant say more on it other than what I witnessed and the reply I got from the technician

I do not believe the casinos are manipulating the dice. Im just reporting what I saw and postulating that it is possible to do so



A slot tech that I knew to not be an idiot once explained to me that they are not in fact RFID based, but rather that there is magnetic paint in the pips on the dice. This is there for sole purpose of reading the result, and does not affect the rolling of the dice in any way. There are sensors in the table that read the pips that are touching the platform. This is why, when the dice aren't perfectly level, the machine sometimes cannot read the result.

It is possible, at least in theory, that this machine with the right software could introduce some amount of bias in whatever direction would best suit the house on a given roll based on the outstanding bets. This is NOT happening in any regulated jurisdiction, and the "right" software probably only exists as an interesting thought experiment in my head. Further, none of the factors that you mentioned indicate any kind of shenanigans occurring.

The "right" software for this could take advantage of the fact that the machine has a camera and controls the velocity and angle of the jolt that occurs when one presses the button. It also controls the angle of the platform and intensity of the secondary vibrations that occur once the dice have started to land after the initial jolt. Presumably, those factors are determined by an RNG. But they wouldn't have to be.

Conceivably, it wouldn't be that difficult to create software that could analyze the position and velocity of each die when the button is pushed, and then maximize the potential for a favorable house result for a specific roll by calculating the correct combination of the amount of power to give to the initial jolt, the correct angle for the platform to be at at the time of the initial jolt, and the right angle of the platform and intensity of secondary vibrations once the dice have landed. A more simple version could simply deliver powerful secondary vibrations for a longer period of time as the dice are coming to rest if the result would be unfavorable. Plus or minus 0.5 seconds of secondary vibrations based on what the dice were naturally coming to rest on could potentially deliver an enormous house edge. If you have ever played one of these things for more than an hour, you have seen extreme variations in the power of the initial jolt and the secondary vibrations - sometimes the dice literally don't roll from the result that they were on when the button was pushed, and others the jolt is powerful and the roll seems to be chaotic (as all rolls should be). So this could be done and it could look no different than the regular game play. However, even this software wouldn't be able to deliver a specific result a high percentage of the time - it would simply provide a bias and increase the house edge higher than it should be.

But again, this is not happening. I haven't written this software, and likely nobody else has.
cyberbabble
cyberbabble
Joined: Mar 24, 2013
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December 10th, 2018 at 11:50:59 AM permalink
Robotic dice control is coming.
The next time you see someone on a good roll at craps, make sure they are really human.
cwazy
cwazy
Joined: Mar 18, 2016
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December 10th, 2018 at 11:52:49 AM permalink
Quote: cyberbabble

Robotic dice control is coming.
The next time you see someone on a good roll at craps, make sure they are really human.



This forum would be alot better without all the snark. I'd like to know how many people with interesting things to say choose not to post here after seeing so many others being cut to shreds. Some are deserving, most are not. But overall it damages the forum and leads to a lack of diversity of thought.
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
Joined: Jan 5, 2012
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December 10th, 2018 at 12:02:38 PM permalink
Quote: cyberbabble

Robotic dice control is coming.
The next time you see someone on a good roll at craps, make sure they are really human.


I'll be ready to administer the Voight-Kampff on sight!

Seriously though, Ahigh built a dice-throwing robot to research dice influence. IIRC, he was able to reproduce a landing spot pretty consistently, but the robot sucked at keeping the dice on axis. But I don't think he really got too many iterations in to that project.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer

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