No Vig 4&10 in LAs Vegas?

I read in an old 2016 thread that the Cromwell and/or the Flamingo has a no vig 4 and 10.

Also the Downtown Grand has a no vig 4 and 10, allegedly.

Can anyone verify any of the above info?

I was just at the Cromwell this weekend and didn’t see that old thread until after I left.

Quote: klimate10

I read in an old 2016 thread that the Cromwell and/or the Flamingo has a no vig 4 and 10.

Also the Downtown Grand has a no vig 4 and 10, allegedly.

Can anyone verify any of the above info?

I was just at the Cromwell this weekend and didn’t see that old thread until after I left.

Bought and paid no vig? Or 4/10 pays 9:5 regardless of the bet?

I get confused about this mainly due to my arithmetic deficiency.

The Odds of the event occurring are 2:1

If you PLACE either the FOUR or the TEN and win you will get paid 9:5.
If you BUY the true odds, you will get paid 2:1 which can also be expressed as 10:5. So you are "buying" that extra payout to go from a Place Bet to a Buy Bet or to go from 9:5 to 10:5 payout.

Obviously there are three options that casino has in allowing you to do this:

Charge you no commission at all out of the goodness of their sweet little hearts.
Charge you a commission at the time you make the bet, which means you pay that commission even if the bet loses.
Charge you a commission at the time you win the bet.

Quote: GlenG

Bought and paid no vig? Or 4/10 pays 9:5 regardless of the bet?

Usually when people say ‘no vig’, they meanit’s a free buy bet. The 4 and 10 pay 2-1, but there is no 5% commission.

Otherwise, it’s just called a place bet on the 4 and 10.

The Sandia casino in NM has this game, as does the Santa Ana Star in Albuquerque, NM.

If you are referring to free buy bets (not paying the vig both when placing the bet and collecting a winning wager) all three casinos mentioned do not offer this.

Downtown Grand did for a stretch, but ended it a while ago. To my knowledge, the Cromwell or Flamingo never offered free buy bets. It is worth mentioning that the Cromwell does offer 100X odds on craps (typically with a $5 or $10 minimum.)

Quote: Jmarch79

It is worth mentioning that the Cromwell does offer 100X odds on craps (typically with a $5 or $10 minimum.)

That is good to know but is of use only to those who have the resolve to actually make use of ultra high odds bets so as to get a 0.06 house edge which is as close to no house edge at all as you will ever get in Vegas.

Quote: FleaStiff

Charge you no commission at all out of the goodness of their sweet little hearts.

It’s a promotion, kind of like 100x odds, but much worse for the house than 100x odds bc the house loses out on revenue they would normally collect.

Quote: Jmarch79

If you are referring to free buy bets (not paying the vig both when placing the bet and collecting a winning wager) all three casinos mentioned do not offer this.

Downtown Grand did for a stretch, but ended it a while ago. To my knowledge, the Cromwell or Flamingo never offered free buy bets. It is worth mentioning that the Cromwell does offer 100X odds on craps (typically with a $5 or $10 minimum.)

Thanks. I happen to run across the someone’s thread on WOV. Thread was from 2016 and piqued my interest.

I was just at the Cromwell this weekend for a short while bc of a business trip. For a Saturday, it was dead in there. For whatever reason, the Cromwell isn’t doing well. The line for the Drais beach club had like 40 people. Maybe they need to loosen their comp policy bc they’re tight with the comps.

Quote: FleaStiff

That is good to know but is of use only to those who have the resolve to actually make use of ultra high odds bets so as to get a 0.06 house edge which is as close to no house edge at all as you will ever get in Vegas.

I play full odds at 100x, and I’m usually the only guy playing max odds. It always puzzles me that people would rather play $1000+ place bets than full odds.

In the high limit rooms and at places like Caesars, there are black and purple bettors all over the place. These guys could be max odds bettors at another casino. They love the trappings of opulence, I guess.

Also, part of it comes down to the fallacy that odds bets are terrible because you have to hit the number twice, whereas a place bet, you only have to hit it once.

Quote: klimate10

Maybe they need to loosen their comp policy bc they’re tight with the comps.

Welcome to CET. By far the tightest with comps for table games players (unless you fall into the high end premium player category.) If you a mid to higher level table games player on the strip, the MGM resorts are much friendlier in terms of comps.

Quote: klimate10

I play full odds at 100x, and I’m usually the only guy playing max odds. It always puzzles me that people would rather play $1000+ place bets than full odds.

In the high limit rooms and at places like Caesars, there are black and purple bettors all over the place. These guys could be max odds bettors at another casino. They love the trappings of opulence, I guess.

Also, part of it comes down to the fallacy that odds bets are terrible because you have to hit the number twice, whereas a place bet, you only have to hit it once.

I agree with you. Put bets are the best bets to make when you can take 100X odds (heck, even at 10X, a put bet is better than a place bet in most cases.) They also solve the "problem" of having to hit the number twice.

Quote: Jmarch79

I agree with you. Put bets are the best bets to make when you can take 100X odds (heck, even at 10X, a put bet is better than a place bet in most cases.) They also solve the "problem" of having to hit the number twice.

That’s very true.

Some places don’t allow put bets, for this very reason; they want guys staying on the place bet.

When guys get chatty, I’ve tried telling guys to do put bets, but it’s like talking to a wall.

The Cromwell does allow put bets. I was explicitly told this by a dealer just this Saturday, coincidentally.

Quote: klimate10

That’s very true.

Some places don’t allow put bets, for this very reason; they want guys staying on the place bet.

When guys get chatty, I’ve tried telling guys to do put bets, but it’s like talking to a wall.

The Cromwell does allow put bets. I was explicitly told this by a dealer just this Saturday, coincidentally.

Cromwell is the new Casino Royale.
who would have thought?

Kind of. The old CR was the best casino in town.

Cromwell never goes below $10 min.

Casino Royale used to have $2 line bet with 100x odds around 2010, then they went to $3 with 100x. Then they went to $3 with 10 or 20x odds, but $5 earned 100x.

And those tables were jumping, packed with players, even though it was a dumpy casino (it’s even dumper now with that White Castle inside).

And believe it or not, the CR, was very generous with their food and room comps; although, their high end restaurant was the Outback Steakhouse that was upstairs. Most food comps were to the fast food pizza chain and for the giant $1 hotdog. Hey, more than what the Cromwell comped me this weekend.

And the dealers at the CR were all crabby and mean, as was the bald headed pit boss, who would openly root for players to 7 out. Because the dealers and floors were so crabby, no one felt bad stiffing the dealers. I remember playing for 8 hours straight and not seeing a single tip for the dealers.

At the Cromwell, the dealers are super friendly, so I feel bad if I don’t tip. I’ll throw an odds tip here and there.

But yes, I was very surprised when I found out that the Cromwell offers the best craps game in town, and it’s owned by Caesars.

Also, this weekend, I saw that their BJ is getting much better. Last time I was there, I only saw 6-5, this time I saw 3-2.

Another cool thing about the Cromwell is that they serve better drinks than other Caesars properties. You can ask for premium drinks at the Cromwell that would be an up charge at the Linq.

Here’s the old 2016 thread. Scroll down to post #5 by DJTeddy

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gaming-business/caesars/26344-cromwell/

I love craps promos. Many years ago, the old Imperial Palace had, for a couple of months, true odds on the hard ways bets.

Santa Ana Star is the only triple/triple field bet I’ve ever seen. And they have free buy 4&10. Now they cap bets the promo bets at $100.

You can effectively gamble and have fun for free, if you maintain discipline. You also have a better chance of winning versus a -EV game.

Quote: klimate10

Santa Ana Star is the only triple/triple field bet I’ve ever seen. And they have free buy 4&10. Now they cap bets the promo bets at $100.

You can effectively gamble and have fun for free, if you maintain discipline. You also have a better chance of winning versus a -EV game.

wow.
does the Santa Ana still give comps for just doing the 0% HE bets all day?

Cromwell attracts random Strip riff raff. If I'm going to sit back and enjoy myself, I'd rather play at a table with fellow grinders than at a table where people are constantly buying in for 100-200. No sense of community and it slows the game down too much. And I don't think I'm alone with that viewpoint.

Ten years ago, Caesar's tried to charge people a vig to buy the 4 and 10 while making the bet. This has changed and as far as I know every casino of the duopoly allows you to pay the vig on wins only.

Quote: 100xOdds

wow.
does the Santa Ana still give comps for just doing the 0% HE bets all day?

Lol 😂

A serious downside of NM casinos is they don’t allow alcohol on the floor. And they aren’t allowed to comp alcohol either. Sober gambling blows!

I still love them though.

Quote: ahiromu

Cromwell attracts random Strip riff raff. If I'm going to sit back and enjoy myself, I'd rather play at a table with fellow grinders than at a table where people are constantly buying in for 100-200. No sense of community and it slows the game down too much. And I don't think I'm alone with that viewpoint.

If by riff raft you mean very poor people who shouldn’t be gambling, the CR was way worse.

I agree. Lots of people share your perspective. There is nothing wrong with your perspective. I’m the same way when it comes to steakhouses and sushi and sporting events. I like paying for the ambiance, the experience, and to be away from certain people.

I’m just not the same way when it comes to gambling. I can deal with the people and can put up with certain difficult people.

Quote: klimate10

Thanks. I happen to run across the someone’s thread on WOV. Thread was from 2016 and piqued my interest.

I was just at the Cromwell this weekend for a short while bc of a business trip. For a Saturday, it was dead in there. For whatever reason, the Cromwell isn’t doing well. The line for the Drais beach club had like 40 people. Maybe they need to loosen their comp policy bc they’re tight with the comps.

Slots are the standard bad Caesars comps $1 for 100 Tier Credits ($500 in slot play or $1000 in VP). Tables are always subjective at the PB discretion but with lower HE, expect lower comps. Not sure why anyone should expect many comps on a craps table unless playing crazy exotics.

Quote: Boz

Not sure why anyone should expect many comps on a craps table unless playing crazy exotics.

You would be surprised, given the right circumstances.

Quote: klimate10

You would be surprised, given the right circumstances.

Not being argumentative, but yes I would be unless something unique is happening. I have seen rare times where a PB overly rewards good tippers but again, not sure it is enough to overcome the tips it takes.

But if you have found a way, keep it to yourself and keep it going.

I understand. It’s all good, my friend. Maybe one day, I’ll meet up with the gang here, too, and we can swap stories.

The Land of Disenchantment (New Mexico) may have a few attractions here and there but why would anyone trek there when its no booze, few comps and everything is Manana.. Even the tourquoise sold in Santa Fe comes from Japan.

One Dollar Hot Dogs at Casino Royale? Heck, some gamblers had MEALS that consisted of Onions, Relish and a variety of other condiments flavored with that one-dollar hot dog. And I swear that from the way they wolfed it down, it was the gambler's only meal that day. Without the food comps some of Casino Royale's regulars would have been collapsing on the floor from starvation.

I'm reminded of that craps dealer who when he got off shift would walk through Casino Royale and do Put Bets on all the numbers, take full odds, after two rolls he would take down his odds money and walk away leaving remaining put bets for the dealers. He stopped when they stopped letting him park his car at their Motel all day.

Buying in for one hundred dollars or two hundred dollars?
Heck, I buy in for Twenty Dollars and I've done it at a ten dollar table. (I gots no shame). In Biloxi I even bought in during one man's roll without quite realizing what I was doing. Was sober at the time too. Maybe not quite awake but definitely sober.

Rewards for tipping? Wait until a stick leaves your hardway bet up when the number rolls easy and the Box doesn't say anything. Often a Pit Boss will be generous with a comp. He knows you are trying to "buy a comp" with your toke bets and he also knows if his crew has been doing well that day or not. If your toke bets were all that made his crew happy their entire shift he is likely to be generous to you.

Quote: FleaStiff

The Land of Disenchantment (New Mexico) may have a few attractions here and there but why would anyone trek there when its no booze, few comps and everything is Manana.. Even the tourquoise sold in Santa Fe comes from Japan.

You are picking on my home state. Oh, that reminds me, we sometimes refer to our state as the Land of Entrapment. But, we got Hatch Green Chile. The best in the world.

New Mexico has more PHD's per capita than any other state, Also has more cows than people

Quote: edwardjsmith

New Mexico has more PHD's per capita than any other state, Also has more cows than people

Albuquerque, New Mexico also has the highest car theft rate in the US.

What’s strange is that I didn’t know about this statistic, but during my last trip to Sandia, people brought this up like it was a badge of honor.

Congrats!

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/thedrive/sheetmetal/11322/albuquerque-has-the-highest-car-theft-rates-per-capita-in-america%3fsource=dam

In answer to the orginal question, I think most, if not all Vegas venues (at least Strip and Freemont) allow for the vig to be paid AFTER the win on 4/10, and most allow you to buy it for $20. So instead of $21 getting you $40 if you win, $20 gets you $39. I'll take that.

Palace Station will allow you to buy for $10.