Dendinger87
Dendinger87
Joined: Jan 25, 2018
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January 25th, 2018 at 8:11:37 AM permalink
Hope I didn’t put this in the wrong place I’m new here, so I apologize if I did. Normally with the iron cross you have the 5,6, 8with place bets and a field bet. What if you did the same place bets but with a $4 horn instead of a field bet? The only time you really lose is on 4 9 10 or “it”. Anyone ever try this method? I feel like the pay outs on 2,3,11,12 make it a lot more exciting.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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January 25th, 2018 at 8:36:04 AM permalink
Just remember what a Horn Bet is: its a way of making FOUR bad bets simultaneously. It is NOT a way of making four good bets simultaneously. So if you combine it with some other bets, you don't get better, you get worse,

If you want to hedge against just about every bad result,,,, go to the casino bar and pay for your drinks, Its cheaper than making horn bets to get "free" drinks
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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January 25th, 2018 at 8:36:05 AM permalink
Hedging is not always a bad thing to do but I often think its best to put your money down and then just accept the results of either a win or a loss rather than erode your profits with hedges that eat away at your profits and add to the house edge,

Right Way or Wrong Way bettors can make money but either have courage to be on one side or else be a spectator.
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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January 25th, 2018 at 8:55:38 AM permalink
Hi Dendinger, and welcome to the forums.

What fleastiff was trying to say, politely, is that the Iron Cross, and all craps bets for that matter, are negative expectation bets. So really if you choose to play the game you should realize you're NOT going to win money in the long run of playing. With that said you're playing for fun/excitement, and maybe a couple "free" drinks... so while you're doing that, and understanding you're going to lose in the long run, whatever combination of negative expectation bets you want to make is right for you. However, there are bets with HIGHER house edges than others, and thus you'll lose your money quicker or lose MORE money in the long run... This is something even a casual player willing to accept the loss should understand. For that, I would recommend staying away from ANY bets in the middle of the table. Sure, the payouts are bigger, because the odds of hitting them are horrible and the bets in the middle of the table have the HIGHEST house edges of all the bets available on the craps table. So while it might be more exciting to have a horn bet when a 3 is rolled, you're giving up more money in the long run by making the horn bet as opposed to the field bet... but again, at the end of the day do remember that either way you're going to lose money in the long run, so with that information make the bet you want to with your money =).
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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January 25th, 2018 at 10:30:51 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Hedging is not always a bad thing to do

You might, might, get the Wizard to say hedging is OK in some circumstance* ... nah, forget it, you won't.

It is reasonable to try to lower the variance, which hedging does, but there are better ways to reduce variance than to grab on to sucker bets.

*he has said he is OK with it in "life changing circumstances" or somesuch
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
WatchMeWin
WatchMeWin
Joined: May 20, 2011
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January 25th, 2018 at 11:23:48 AM permalink
I think.... oh nevermind! My record over the past 3 months has been.... oh nevermind!

Just play with your head, and not over it. Hit n Run if you can.
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
DeMango
DeMango
Joined: Feb 2, 2010
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January 25th, 2018 at 11:57:52 AM permalink
Correct. I believe the OP needs to watch someone win, for the best betting advice ever!
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
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January 25th, 2018 at 1:12:04 PM permalink
Quote: WatchMeWin

I think.... oh nevermind! My record over the past 3 months has been.... oh nevermind!

Just play with your head, and not over it. Hit n Run if you can.



How about prove something or never mind?
Vultures can't be choosers.
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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January 25th, 2018 at 1:33:02 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

How about prove something or never mind?

Was thinking the same thing... I was going to claim I made exactly 15x whatever he made last month, but didn't want to indulge that fantasy land to get out of hand, or get accused of trolling.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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February 3rd, 2018 at 6:14:37 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Hedging is not always a bad thing to do...

Actually, I don't really believe this. At least most of the time I do not believe it. I just said it to avoid any protracted arguments.

Right Way and Wrong Way bettors are not all that far apart in house edge. The slightly lower house edge on the Wrong Way bets is made up for by the player having to have a larger bankroll to stay on the Don'ts in a mathematically sound fashion,. So the thing to do,, as far as I'm concerned, is to just pick one (in ANY manner that you choose) and accept the results whatever they are.

As was stated upthread, ALL bets at the craps table are negative expectation. So any combination will be even more negative,. Its no big deal whether its Right Way or Wrong Way.

Now some people prefer 'time at table' to 'profits' and hedging will usually return some of your money to you but I doubt it makes any great difference, Time at table, free drinks, friendly banter, there are different "values systems" but it really is just a matter of luck, oops Variance, and if your Variance is good you might as well not be hedged.

That 'Horn Bet is a way to make four bad bets simultaneously' is a colorful phrase but it is entirely accurate, All that C&E action and Horn action is great for people who like talking to the stick and tossing low value chips to him. If you find that to be fun, so be it, but its fairly expensive fun,.

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