Couple beginner questions

I played for the 1st time a few weeks ago and two of my bets were place bets on 6 and 8. I played on a $10 min table and played $12 on both numbers and left them up until someone 7' out.

One of my questions I have that confused me that night. If a shooter hits his number for example 4 my $12 place bets on 6 and 8 stay on the table. So everyone puts down $10 on the pass line (including me) and the shooter throws the dice again. If he rolls a 6 what do I do with my 6 place bet? I usually play $20 on the pass line odds after the point is established. Do I take down my place bet on 6 and continue with my $20 pass line odds?

Hope that makes sense. Sorry I'm still learning and trying not too look stupid when I go back.

The dealer will typically ask you what you want to do with your place 6 bet. If your on the pass line and 6 is the point you want take your place bet down and bet the odds on your 6.

Quote: Mikey75

The dealer will typically ask you what you want to do with your place 6 bet. If your on the pass line and 6 is the point you want take your place bet down and bet the odds on your 6.

And take the white and make it a two way hard 6.

Quote: Mikey75

The dealer will typically ask you what you want to do with your place 6 bet. If your on the pass line and 6 is the point you want take your place bet down and bet the odds on your 6.

That's what I thought. Thank you!

Quote: DeMango

And take the white and make it a two way hard 6.

What's a two way hard 6? I haven't made any hard bets yet. All I know so far are you can bet minimum $1, you don't lose unless a 7 (craps) or that number is rolled the easy way. Not sure when or how to make these bets yet.

A "two way had six" means two bets at the same time on the Hard Six where it is understood that one is for you and one is for the dealers (as a toke if it wins). So in this case a dollar for you and a dollar for the dealers, each to win on a hard six roll. Not a good bet (as many here will tell you), but can make you feel you are more involved in the action and gets dealers more interested and help-full towards you. "Two way" can also be done as a "three way" if you want to also send some good will (in the form of money) to the shooter too on the win; usually made by a "George". There are a lot of silly ways to drop tokes for the dealers during the game. Some others are: Put $5 out as "all Hard Ways and Dollar dealer's choice"; "Two Way Yo"; Or put a $1 beside your Pass Line bet and say "Dealer's On The Line". All not good ideas if you want to max your winnings, just part of the culture of the game. In a weird way it is kind of like playing with your money just before you give it away. Dealers prefer tokes given without a bet attached, too bad or them it can seem awkward to do this in the middle of a session...

Quote: Jamie4127

All I know so far are ...

what you should also know is that this is a sucker bet , as are all bets in the middle of the table

Quote: HornHighYo11

A "two way had six" means two bets at the same time on the Hard Six where it is understood that one is for you and one is for the dealers (as a toke if it wins). So in this case a dollar for you and a dollar for the dealers, each to win on a hard six roll. Not a good bet (as many here will tell you), but can make you feel you are more involved in the action and gets dealers more interested and help-full towards you. "Two way" can also be done as a "three way" if you want to also send some good will (in the form of money) to the shooter too on the win; usually made by a "George". There are a lot of silly ways to drop tokes for the dealers during the game. Some others are: Put $5 out as "all Hard Ways and Dollar dealer's choice"; "Two Way Yo"; Or put a $1 beside your Pass Line bet and say "Dealer's On The Line". All not good ideas if you want to max your winnings, just part of the culture of the game. In a weird way it is kind of like playing with your money just before you give it away. Dealers prefer tokes given without a bet attached, too bad or them it can seem awkward to do this in the middle of a session...

Thanks! That clears some things up.

Few questions.
If I bet $1 on a two way hard six does that mean if it hits I get half the winnings and the dealer gets half the winnings since I only bet $1?
I know it's a sucker bet but when is the best time to bet hard way bets? Does it depend on what the point is? And if it hits do you normally take your winnings or press it?
For tips/tokes if dealers don't link them attached to bets when and how much do you tip?

Sorry I have alot of questions regarding hard way bets. Like I said it's the next type of bet I'm learning. I guess I should youtube some help videos.

Thanks!

Quote: odiousgambit

what you should also know is that this is a sucker bet , as are all bets in the middle of the table

I know but if I can play 1 or 2 $1 bets every few minutes just to change it up I don't think it's gonna hurt the bank.

When I played last (1st time playing) I bet $10 on the pass line, $20 on pass line odds, and $12 each on 6/8 place bets. Playing off and on for a few hours I was ahead $400. This is just recreational for me so anything ahead is a score.

But I admit after a while playing the same bets over and over did get a little old. So if I can mix it up and play a couple $1 bets every so often I would like to try that.

Thanks!

Quote: Jamie4127

Thanks! That clears some things up.

Few questions.
1.) If I bet $1 on a two way hard six does that mean if it hits I get half the winnings and the dealer gets half the winnings since I only bet $1?
2.) I know it's a sucker bet but when is the best time to bet hard way bets?
3.) Does it depend on what the point is?
4.) And if it hits do you normally take your winnings or press it?
5.) For tips/tokes if dealers don't link them attached to bets when and how much do you tip?

Sorry I have alot of questions regarding hard way bets. Like I said it's the next type of bet I'm learning. I guess I should youtube some help videos.

Thanks!

Numbered in Quote:

1.) I don't know, I've only ever heard of someone making a Two-Way Hard-6 with $2. If they let you do it, I imagine the winnings would be chopped.

2.) Never and whenever you want. They are usually not working on the Come Out Roll unless you request they be, "On." That being the case, I guess make them when a Point is Established, seems to be the most common time.

3.) No.

4.) I don't bet that, so I'm not qualified to answer. Whatever you want to do. Just remember to think of it as a new bet (it is) and not, "House Money," (it's your money) so a greater bet comes with a greater expected loss.

5.) Whenever and however much you want. You don't want toking advice from me, I'm too generous at the dice table.

Quote: Mission146

Numbered in Quote:

1.) I don't know, I've only ever heard of someone making a Two-Way Hard-6 with $2. If they let you do it, I imagine the winnings would be chopped.

2.) Never and whenever you want. They are usually not working on the Come Out Roll unless you request they be, "On." That being the case, I guess make them when a Point is Established, seems to be the most common time.

3.) No.

4.) I don't bet that, so I'm not qualified to answer. Whatever you want to do. Just remember to think of it as a new bet (it is) and not, "House Money," (it's your money) so a greater bet comes with a greater expected loss.

5.) Whenever and however much you want. You don't want toking advice from me, I'm too generous at the dice table.

Thank you sir!

Quote: Jamie4127

If I bet $1 on a two way hard six does that mean if it hits I get half the winnings and the dealer gets half the winnings since I only bet $1?

A "two-way" bet is actually 2 separate bets, so you'll need to throw in at least 2 chips. You will actually see the dealers place them in separate locations within the Hard 6 box. So, the bottom line is that your two-way bet must be at least $2. (Unless a place with 25c chips like Jokers Wild will let you make a 50c center bet. Not sure if they would.)

If you wanted to only play $1, you could place the bet for yourself, then mention to the dealers that they will get half your winnings. Or keep silent and let it be a surprise for the dealers when/if it hits.

Quote:

I know it's a sucker bet but when is the best time to bet hard way bets? Does it depend on what the point is? And if it hits do you normally take your winnings or press it?

These are pretty much personal preference questions. The objective answer to your 1st is never! But what fun is that, right? :) What I see fairly often (and occasionally do myself) is when an even number point is established, people with pass line bets will bet the point to come in hard. So, if it comes soft, then you lose a little on the hardway bet, but you win your pass & odds bets. And if it does come hard, you're the hero!

But you can bet any hardway you want, regardless of the point. Personally, if my hardway bet hits, I'll leave it up, possibly increasing it by 1 unit.

Like I said, these are all personal preference. But to be prudent, if you are going to make center bets, do so sparingly.

Quote:

For tips/tokes if dealers don't link them attached to bets when and how much do you tip?

I wouldn't say that all dealers dislike their tokes being bet. I've come across some who like the action of their tokes being on the long-shot bets. I would think, with tip pooling, most would not care much since it doesn't really affect their bottom line.

I remember playing craps at the Horseshoe downtown (back before Harrah's bought it) and making a center bet for the dealer. Back then, it was a "go for your own" tips joint. That is, the 4-man crew pocketed (literally) any tokes they received. When I made the bet, the dealer said that he would rather have it on the Pass Line than in the center. Made sense to me, so I have been tipping on the pass line since.

On the occasions when I play the don't pass, I will just tip the dealer without making a bet. In these cases, I will place my toke on the felt and tell the dealer it is for him.

Quote: Joeman

A "two-way" bet is actually 2 separate bets, so you'll need to throw in at least 2 chips. You will actually see the dealers place them in separate locations within the Hard 6 box. So, the bottom line is that your two-way bet must be at least $2. (Unless a place with 25c chips like Jokers Wild will let you make a 50c center bet. Not sure if they would.)

If you wanted to only play $1, you could place the bet for yourself, then mention to the dealers that they will get half your winnings. Or keep silent and let it be a surprise for the dealers when/if it hits.

These are pretty much personal preference questions. The objective answer to your 1st is never! But what fun is that, right? :) What I see fairly often (and occasionally do myself) is when an even number point is established, people with pass line bets will bet the point to come in hard. So, if it comes soft, then you lose a little on the hardway bet, but you win your pass & odds bets. And if it does come hard, you're the hero!

But you can bet any hardway you want, regardless of the point. Personally, if my hardway bet hits, I'll leave it up, possibly increasing it by 1 unit.

Like I said, these are all personal preference. But to be prudent, if you are going to make center bets, do so sparingly.

I wouldn't say that all dealers dislike their tokes being bet. I've come across some who like the action of their tokes being on the long-shot bets. I would think, with tip pooling, most would not care much since it doesn't really affect their bottom line.

I remember playing craps at the Horseshoe downtown (back before Harrah's bought it) and making a center bet for the dealer. Back then, it was a "go for your own" tips joint. That is, the 4-man crew pocketed (literally) any tokes they received. When I made the bet, the dealer said that he would rather have it on the Pass Line than in the center. Made sense to me, so I have been tipping on the pass line since.

On the occasions when I play the don't pass, I will just tip the dealer without making a bet. In these cases, I will place my toke on the felt and tell the dealer it is for him.

Great I think I got it. I think I'll pass on the betting with tokes and just throw the dealers a $5 chip every so often to keep it less confusing.
Also next time to change things up a little I might try to play a hard way number if the point is a even number. I'll throw $1 dollar to the stick man and tell him 1 dollar the hard way and whatever the point number is. If my point hits for example 4 and it's a hard 4 does my money automatically come down since it will be a come out roll? Or can I press it and leave it up?
And last how can I play all the hard ways? Just toss $4 and tell the stick man "all the hard ways"?

Thanks again.

Quote: Joeman

I wouldn't say that all dealers dislike their tokes being bet. I've come across some who like the action of their tokes being on the long-shot bets. I would think, with tip pooling, most would not care much since it doesn't really affect their bottom line.

I can assure you that the dealers at Wheeling Island Hotel-Casino-Racetrack don't mind.

Let's give a big kudos to Delaware North Company because:

Place 5/6/8/9 Bets on a $1 Toke = $3 and down.

In other words, all of these bets pay 3-for-1:

6 & 8: (2 * 5/11) - (1 * 6/11) = 0.36363636363 (Expected Profit AND 36.364% Dealer ADVANTAGE on toke)

5 & 9: (2 * 4/10) - (1 * 6/10) = .2 (Expected Profit and 20% Dealer ADVANTAGE on toke)

The, Place/Buy 4 & 10 just pay true odds on a buck toke, so also $3 and down for a 0% edge.

I usually toke bet on the 6 & 8 as well as the point IF the point is a 5 or 9.

Quote: Jamie4127

Great I think I got it. I think I'll pass on the betting with tokes and just throw the dealers a $5 chip every so often to keep it less confusing.
Also next time to change things up a little I might try to play a hard way number if the point is a even number. I'll throw $1 dollar to the stick man and tell him 1 dollar the hard way and whatever the point number is. If my point hits for example 4 and it's a hard 4 does my money automatically come down since it will be a come out roll? Or can I press it and leave it up?
And last how can I play all the hard ways? Just toss $4 and tell the stick man "all the hard ways"?

Thanks again.

A.) You're not going to confuse the dealers by making toke bets. If there are no dealer ADVANTAGE options, then might I suggest just adding that $5 to your odds if you don't take/lay full Odds as it is. It's a player-service bet, so then you could hand in the winnings on a win and you have full control when and if you want to do it on the next point with no hassle to the dealers. You can even say, "If the point hits, you've got $x coming." $10 on a four, for instance.

That way, the dealers can have some skin in the game at a 0% edge.

Also, most houses will at least allow you to make $1 toke bets on the Place/Buy 4/10 at true odds, so that gives the dealers something to root for and they are not eating any house edge.

B.) On the Come Out:

b1.) The original Hard Way bet NEVER comes down unless you specifically ask for it back.

b2.) The Hard Four will automatically NOT work on the Come Out, but you can ask for it to be working/press if you like.

C.) ALL HARD:

That's correct, just toss in four chips of any denomination and say, "Cover the Hard Ways." Otherwise, toss in a red ($5) and say, "Cover the Hard Ways, buck each," and the crew will toss you back a white.

Good luck on your endeavor. You got some good information in here.

Quote: Jamie4127

If my point hits for example 4 and it's a hard 4 does my money automatically come down since it will be a come out roll? Or can I press it and leave it up?

The center bets are always left up when they hit. You will have to ask them to take it down. On the come-out roll, the hardways bets are usually "working," though I have seen some tables where they are "off" on the come-out roll. You can always tell the dealer that you want your bets "off" (or "working") at any time.

Quote:

how can I play all the hard ways? Just toss $4 and tell the stick man "all the hard ways"?

You got it! Or you could throw them a $5 chip and they'll give you $1 in change.

Quote:

I'll pass on the betting with tokes and just throw the dealers a $5 chip every so often

That would be very generous.

If you ask 10 people when and how much to tip, you will get 10 different answers, but at $5 per half hour, you will usually be the biggest tipper at the table by far.

I will usually put the dealers on the line for $1 after my first line win. The every so often after that, usually after a line win.


EDIT:Dang it! Mission beat me to the punch again! Curse these slow-typing fingers! :P

Quote: Joeman

If you ask 10 people when and how much to tip, you will get 10 different answers, but at $5 per half hour, you will usually be the biggest tipper at the table by far.

I'm the reason for the, "Usually," qualifier...lol

Of course, if I played more often, I'm sure my tokes:total action ratio would be much lower.

Coming out, "Hardways work unless called 'Off'".

Just let the stick know that you are always off coming out. You will not have action on your hardway bets on come out rolls, but most folks are hoping for sevens at that time anyway.

The thing to learn is that you can have just about anything you want to bet if you are clear and concise in your statements. As long as your dealer knows whether you want to be ON or OFF that is fine.

I think it is best to make toke bets at the BEGINNING of your play so the dealers take note of you. What is the use of tipping at the end of your play, its not a restaurant!

Most dealers will prefer a decent bet not these trivial center bets for pocket change. I usually put the dealers on the line right with me though perhaps for a smaller amount. If I put odds on my bet I often will put odds on the dealer's toke bet as well, which usually evokes a "dealers have shoes" from the stick man. Even if you put a lousy one dollar next to your line bet at a $10 minimum table, the dealers will know its a toke bet and will allow it for them, but will enforce the table minimum for ALL players.

USUALLY if a dealer changes your bets he is doing what is best for you or is most commonly requested. So moving your place bet chips from the 6 to the 8 when a shooter establishes 6 as a point will be done unless you say no.

"On and Off" is also what a dealer will say to let you know he has taken a short cut on your behalf if you've been making come bets.

The main thing to remember is that it is YOUR money and you've a right to ask questions, particularly if the table is somewhat slow at the time. Dealers know that if you are happy they will be more likely to get tipped.

Quote: Jamie4127

I played for the 1st time a few weeks ago and two of my bets were place bets on 6 and 8. I played on a $10 min table and played $12 on both numbers and left them up until someone 7' out.

One of my questions I have that confused me that night. If a shooter hits his number for example 4 my $12 place bets on 6 and 8 stay on the table. So everyone puts down $10 on the pass line (including me) and the shooter throws the dice again. If he rolls a 6 what do I do with my 6 place bet? I usually play $20 on the pass line odds after the point is established. Do I take down my place bet on 6 and continue with my $20 pass line odds?

Hope that makes sense. Sorry I'm still learning and trying not too look stupid when I go back.

Do you play at Parx in Philly by any chance? I played craps there this past weekend and there was a girl next to me who was a beginner and played the same way as you... lol 6 n 8 and place bet.

I think I learned more today then I have the last few weeks reading online. I've got the pass line covered, place bets and now I understand know how to bet the hard ways even though it's not in my favor.
One last question.
Back to tokes if I decide to bet the pass line for the dealers do I place $1 chip next to my $10? And when I play my odds should I place $2 for the dealers?
Or are the chances better if I bet $2 for the dealers on 6/8 since I'm already betting the 6/8?

Thanks again! Everyone has been more then helpful!!!!

Quote: WatchMeWin

Do you play at Parx in Philly by any chance? I played craps there this past weekend and there was a girl next to me who was a beginner and played the same way as you... lol 6 n 8 and place bet.

Nope I played at Coushatta in Kinder, LA. Am I making female bets lol?? I was way to nervous to bet anything else and making a mistake and embarrassing my self..

Quote: Jamie4127

Back to tokes if I decide to bet the pass line for the dealers do I place $1 chip next to my $10?

Yes, that's it!

Quote:

And when I play my odds should I place $2 for the dealers?

That depends on how much you are planning to tip. You don't need to give the dealers odds, but they will appreciate it if you do. It also depends on the number of the point. To get full value of the odds payout, you need to bet $5 on the 6/8, and $2 on the 5/9. Anything on the 4/10 will pay full odds.

Personally, when I do give the dealers odds (usually only if I am running good), I'll bet $1 if the point is 4/10. Maybe I'll do a $2 bet if the point is 5/9. Typically, I won't give the dealers odds on the 6/8, since it would require a $5 bet. That is, unless my chip rack is running out of space! ;)

Quote:

Or are the chances better if I bet $2 for the dealers on 6/8 since I'm already betting the 6/8?

Unless it is a special case, as Mission stated, where there is a dealer advantage on a $1 place bet, you (and your dealer) are better off putting that money on the line (or on odds).

Sorry if it's been said in the thread but one idea is to make the minimum bet on 6 or 8 or both (your choice). If you start with just one number, if that wins you could then make a bet on the other and keep the change. However I'll assume you've bet on both as in your original question.

While the shooter is trying to make their point your bets will be working. If the shooter makes their point your bets won't be working until the next point is established. If it happens to be a 6 or 8 you can just leave your bet there and it will win if the 6 or 8 is thrown. The suggestion is that if you did decide to make a Pass line bet as well, then you would be better off by moving the place bet to an Odds bet. In this case either round it up to $15 $20 or down to $10, whatever you're comfortable with. Remember if the shooter makes the 6 (or 8) point then you might not have the 6 (or 8) covered if the next point established is different.

"Working" in this context applies to Place Bets (and some other bets) - it means they can win or lose depending on the next roll of the dice. On a Come Out roll the shooter wants a Seven, so historically the Place Bets are called "Off" - this is why the puck has a black "off" and white "on". This means they don't lose on a Seven, but also they can't win either. You can always call your Place bets "On" or "Off", but it's easier to leave them asis.

If you make a line bet for yourself and also want to do a line bet for the dealers, you simply position it about two inches away from your bet but closer to the stickman, not further from him.

Any odds bet on either of those two line bets goes about two inches behind the line bets.

IF the box thinks there is going to be any confusion he may say "let those bets breathe" meaning separate them a bit more.

A toke bet or two at the beginning of your play gets you noticed and the dealers will be likely to answer your questions even if things are real busy simply because "you are their friend" which is a phrase used to let an incoming dealer know who is doing some tipping.

Dealers generally do not do anything MAJOR for someone who tips but they often do let some minor things slide.

Hello Jamie4127

Each of the many games that collectively are called the "game" of Craps is completely independent of each of the other games. Each game should be analyzed as a standalone matter. The optional Odds bet may be made only if a predecessor Flat bet has been made, but the Odds bet itself is technically a separate proposition.

There is no technical reason to make or take down any particular Place bet except as your own whims may dictate. Regardless of the Pass point, or Come number for that matter, Place bets on the same numbers are perfectly permissible. You may have Flat, Odds, and Place bets simultaneously on each of the six Box numbers. Your choices should be informed by matters of proportion, distribution, and bankroll.

Dealers assume that most players want to avoid Pass, Odds, and Place bets on the same number and hence dealers will suggest a different Place bet number as a courtesy. Please remember that dealers want you to win because winners often tip the crew, so their advice is rarely bad.

As for suggestions from the general public on choosing different bets, please be wary. The public loses.

Thanks for all the responses, I greatly appreciate it! I think we are planning another trip next month. I will put everyone’s advice/suggestions to use. Thanks again.

Quote: pwcrabb

There is no technical reason to make or take down any particular Place bet except as your own whims may dictate.

Dealers assume that most players want to avoid Pass, Odds, and Place bets on the same number and hence dealers will suggest a different Place bet number as a courtesy. Please remember that dealers want you to win because winners often tip the crew, so their advice is rarely bad.

Quite true. And table limits are "per bet" NOT "per number" so if you want to have a come bet, place bet and Buy bet all on the same number, you can.

I was surprised when the dealer first moved my bet from the 8 to the 6 but I wasn't about to argue the matter in a busy game.

Quote: FleaStiff

Quite true. And table limits are "per bet" NOT "per number" so if you want to have a come bet, place bet and Buy bet all on the same number, you can.

I was surprised when the dealer first moved my bet from the 8 to the 6 but I wasn't about to argue the matter in a busy game.

Most bets all pay different with different odds. So it's good to have a understanding what each bet pays and the odds before just betting a come/place or buy bet.

Just curious why wouldn't you bet both 6 and 8 if the chances are the same and pay the same?