superrick
superrick
Joined: Jul 14, 2010
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February 17th, 2017 at 4:29:06 PM permalink
Okay for all of you guys that know everything, are bubble craps machines nothing more than a slot machine?

Can you back up what you are writing with facts?
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...! You do good brada ..! superrick Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php ...
charlestfuller
charlestfuller
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February 17th, 2017 at 5:03:42 PM permalink
Yes, by definition they are different. Craps machines do not have a reel and are not really associated with random symbols. Craps can involve strategy, albeit not necessarily a winning one. Strange to see two threads now about bubble craps machines...
superrick
superrick
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February 17th, 2017 at 6:06:45 PM permalink
Well, it's because more and more of these machines are showing up around the country! They also are showing up where they can't have table games, so if that is the case are they slot machines?
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...! You do good brada ..! superrick Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php ...
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
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February 17th, 2017 at 6:45:59 PM permalink
Quote: superrick

Well, it's because more and more of these machines are showing up around the country! They also are showing up where they can't have table games, so if that is the case are they slot machines?


Bubble craps machines are probably considered "slot machines" just as much as video poker machines are. If the bets are handled electronically and no staffers (dealers/croupiers) are needed, then it is probably considered a "gaming device" just like a slot machine. Is there a reason you need to know if the specific term "slot machine" applies to them?

One exception I can think of to "they're showing up where they can't have table games": California. Casinos that were opened or had their compacts renegotiated (e.g. to add more machines) after 2010 have a stipulation saying that no games that use "physical dice" are allowed. While I have a feeling this was targeting the versions of craps that, while cards determine the actual numbers, dice are used to determine which cards are drawn, it almost certainly applies to bubble craps as well.
superrick
superrick
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February 17th, 2017 at 7:05:11 PM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

Bubble craps machines are probably considered "slot machines" just as much as video poker machines are. If the bets are handled electronically and no staffers (dealers/croupiers) are needed, then it is probably considered a "gaming device" just like a slot machine. Is there a reason you need to know if the specific term "slot machine" applies to them?

One exception I can think of to "they're showing up where they can't have table games": California. Casinos that were opened or had their compacts renegotiated (e.g. to add more machines) after 2010 have a stipulation saying that no games that use "physical dice" are allowed. While I have a feeling this was targeting the versions of craps that, while cards determine the actual numbers, dice are used to determine which cards are drawn, it almost certainly applies to bubble craps as well.


Yes, there is a reason and it goes like this, I don't like information that can't be proven and is nothing more than fiction that is passed on to anybody that wants to read it! Common sense would tell you that they are slot machines if the casinos can't have table games but now have these bubble craps machines that are now showing up in more casinos!

If they are slot machines do they have to act like real live table games? There may be a big misconception that they have to act like real table games when they don't have to because in fact they are a slot machine! Standing back and looking at the machine are the players thinking that they are playing real craps when they are not?
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...! You do good brada ..! superrick Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php ...
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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February 17th, 2017 at 8:58:57 PM permalink
Quote: superrick

Yes, there is a reason and it goes like this, I don't like information that can't be proven and is nothing more than fiction that is passed on to anybody that wants to read it! Common sense would tell you that they are slot machines if the casinos can't have table games but now have these bubble craps machines that are now showing up in more casinos!

If they are slot machines do they have to act like real live table games? There may be a big misconception that they have to act like real table games when they don't have to because in fact they are a slot machine! Standing back and looking at the machine are the players thinking that they are playing real craps when they are not?

I would look up the laws in the state you want to know more about. It's to my understanding, in Nevada, if a machine has a dice or poker card feature, it must be random.

I hear people saying they are not random, and the machines are using magnets or something like that to cheat(*rolls eyes). If that's the case, it makes me wonder why most casinos don't allow you to earn points(oftentimes they start out allowing you to earn points and then quickly disallow from point earning) on something that is acting like a slot and is basically cheating people? They should be giving away triple points, running promotions and encouraging people to play their craps "slot".

If they can gaff bubble craps to not play fair why dont they just make more games like spin poker VP add FPDW, FPJW etc etc and gaff the hell out of them?

Why not gaff all the Video BJ as well?

I'm not sure why any halfway educated gambler would want to play them for any serious money or time in the first place, unless they have an advantage, or they are just messing around wasting time or whatever.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Mission146
Mission146
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February 17th, 2017 at 9:27:04 PM permalink
Quote: superrick

Okay for all of you guys that know everything, are bubble craps machines nothing more than a slot machine?

Can you back up what you are writing with facts?



For W2G purposes, they are treated as a slot machine rather than table game.

They are legal in some jurisdictions in which live table games are not because they fall under the definition of an electronic game.

In terms of randomness, for Nevada at least, any game that uses cards, dice, roulette wheel or other physical implement that would have set odds must have the probabilities correspond to what the odds would be. In other words, it could be RNG based, but the programmed probabilities would have to be the same as actual physical dice...at least in Nevada.

You'd do well to examine other states individually.
Vultures can't be choosers.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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February 17th, 2017 at 9:39:25 PM permalink
Quote: superrick

Can you back up what you are writing with facts?

Philisophical slot machines? Legal slot machines, IRS slot machines, de facto slot machines, ...you want evidence and FACTS?

OKAY.... here is the important fact: Professional gamblers, bookmakers, million dollar bettors are reliable.

Casinos are betting that they are indeed slot machines... they are betting millions... so that makes them slot machines. I ain't seen no casinos ripping the machines out due to massive losses. Nor does there seem to be teams of parasites sucking chips from those machines.

After all the preliminary tests casinos put new games to, the final test is to put it on the floor and see what happens. Casinos saw. They are happy.

So its a slot machine even if the lawyers came up with that designation for some legal reason. Its a slot machine.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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February 17th, 2017 at 10:25:48 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Quote: superrick

Can you back up what you are writing with facts?

Philisophical slot machines? Legal slot machines, IRS slot machines, de facto slot machines, ...you want evidence and FACTS?

OKAY.... here is the important fact: Professional gamblers, bookmakers, million dollar bettors are reliable.

Casinos are betting that they are indeed slot machines... they are betting millions... so that makes them slot machines. I ain't seen no casinos ripping the machines out due to massive losses. Nor does there seem to be teams of parasites sucking chips from those machines.

After all the preliminary tests casinos put new games to, the final test is to put it on the floor and see what happens. Casinos saw. They are happy.

So its a slot machine even if the lawyers came up with that designation for some legal reason. Its a slot machine.

I think we need to get to the real reason the question is being asked.

There are people that think if they are a slot they can be programmed to do funny things and hold whatever the casino sets them to hold. I'm not buying it, at least not in most US jurisdictions.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
RS
RS
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February 17th, 2017 at 10:42:17 PM permalink
They are "slot machines" in the sense you can hit a W2G on them (hit for $1200+ on a single pay, get a jackpot/W2G), as well as that they are electronic. If you're asking "can the casino change the odds / hold / etc. on the bubble craps?" -- at least in NV, they are not "slot machines" in that sense. In NV, if a game (even a kiosk swipe & win type game), if things like dice or cards are used, then each outcome has to be equally likely.

I suppose it's possible the machine has an RNG in it that picks what the next dice roll is going to be, by using magnets or some such nonsense. But if that somehow was the case, each number on each die would have to be equally likely to show up. So, in other words, this would have no effect on the player (unless he was trying to DI the craps machine, lol).


Is that what you're getting at, Superrick, you trying to DI the craps machines?

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