Best Casinos To Play Craps?
I prefer better odds.
Mostly I play at Chinook Winds on the Oregon coast: 5X odds.
Fancy? Kinda... but the atmosphere is always good vibes, open tables, less riff raff, and dealers that know what they are doing who keep the dice flowing.... and it doesn't hurt that the waitresses and uniforms are hot. Then I can always get a bite to eat at one of their awesome restaurants with winnings.
Go to the Whiz's craps survey and you can find far better places to play...Main Street Station, $5 minimum with 20x odds, Boyd's Boarding Pass points. Sam's Town out on Boulder Highway, minimums as low as $3, very generous odds, free parking and again Boyd's Boarding Pass points. By the way, Sam's in particular has knowledgeable dealers, most seem to have been there for years.
Now I'd agree that neither has the prettiest cocktail waitresses...but I'm not there to ogle the help. I'm there to play craps.
A little more upscale is Green Valley Ranch, one of Red Rock Resorts properties. Again, free parking, low minimums and odds that are no worse than most on the strip. Some very good food options, too. Boarding Pass is a very good points program.
Sunday morning at the MGM is always a treat. That's when you're most likely to see a guy in his mid-60s wearing a $6,000 sweater and a $60,000 Rolex playing with yellow or brown chips (if I recall, $1k and $5k). I saw someone fitting that description pull down $22,000 on one roll once -- a hard 8. He had $2k on the line, a place bet, an all-day hardway for $1k, and right before he threw the dice he hopped the hard 8 for $100. The box twitched a little when it showed.Quote: MrVYeah, I've played a lot at MGM and while they had normal strip odds, the crews were first rate: always a pleasant experience there.
Mmm, tasty:
Quote: MathExtremistSunday morning at the MGM is always a treat. That's when you're most likely to see a guy in his mid-60s wearing a $6,000 sweater and a $60,000 Rolex playing with yellow or brown chips (if I recall, $1k and $5k). I saw someone fitting that description pull down $22,000 on one roll once -- a hard 8. He had $2k on the line, a place bet, an all-day hardway for $1k, and right before he threw the dice he hopped the hard 8 for $100. The box twitched a little when it showed.
Mmm, tasty:
That visual is like straight out of Vegas Movie! Calm, cool, and collected with his young girlfriend holding his hand?
Quote: monet0412Anyone who pays 6k for a sweater or 60k for a watch deserves to get rolled. My friend bought 3 watches a year ago for 15k a pop... totaling 45k. After I witnessed that I never contacted him again... disowned him basically. It wasn't long after his watches are owned by the pawn shop, he is flat broke and asks me for a loan from time to time. I used to break him off 10k like it was nothing at any time but after he bought those watches I will never loan him a dime. I couldn't walk down the street with a 60k watch on my wrist and look people in the eye. Just my opinion though... all you pretentious yuppies can do whatever you like.
Maybe your friend bought the watches because he wanted to have something he could hold on to of value ... so that he could pawn it when he needed to.. because he probably knew he would lose it on the tables. And also because he sounds like a donkey. I have a friend that buys things after he wins because he knows he cant lose it right away and he can always sell it, even if at a lesser price. sad!
You know what the "Y" in yuppie stands for, right? Yuppies aren't the ones at the table on Sunday morning at the MGM Grand.Quote: monet0412Anyone who pays 6k for a sweater or 60k for a watch deserves to get rolled. My friend bought 3 watches a year ago for 15k a pop... totaling 45k. After I witnessed that I never contacted him again... disowned him basically. It wasn't long after his watches are owned by the pawn shop, he is flat broke and asks me for a loan from time to time. I used to break him off 10k like it was nothing at any time but after he bought those watches I will never loan him a dime. I couldn't walk down the street with a 60k watch on my wrist and look people in the eye. Just my opinion though... all you pretentious yuppies can do whatever you like.
Your friend sounds like he's not very good at managing his money. Buying a $15k watch and then pawning it is a really terrible investment. As for me, I'm hardly a yuppie, I don't own a 60k watch, and I don't expect I ever will. Upon reflection, I don't think any tangible item I own (except my house) is worth 60k. Maybe I'm well-diversified? :)
I own several Swiss watches, high end stereo gear, an "exotic" car (not my daily driver: a toy / investment), and have investments / real estate and money in the bank.
So monet, please explain why this makes me "deserve to get rolled?"
I've played the game of life tightly but by the numbers and have been reasonably successful at it; I understand and appreciate quality, and am willing to pay for it.
I don't think of myself as being at all pretentious: just the opposite in fact.
Moral of the story, monet: be damned careful about blanket generalizations.
Quote: MrVNot to brag, but ...
I own several Swiss watches, high end stereo gear, an "exotic" car (not my daily driver: a toy / investment), and have investments / real estate and money in the bank.
So monet, please explain why this makes me "deserve to get rolled?"
I've played the game of life tightly but by the numbers and have been reasonably successful at it; I understand and appreciate quality, and am willing to pay for it.
I don't think of myself as being at all pretentious: just the opposite in fact.
Moral of the story, monet: be damned careful about blanket generalizations.
This is only my point of view. Sure the game is set up for winners to win and losers to lose. I understand that. The problem is that we are all in the same boat heading to the same destination. No one man is better than the other. I am on a slippery slope here. We could argue this point till kingdom come and nobody is going to win. The point is that if your going to walk around town in 6000 dollar sweaters and 60,000 dollar watches than that person deserves to get rolled. This is why most people who do have these "toys" have body guards all around them. You can't walk around us common folk like some king or god and not expect to have trouble. As I said before to each his/her own. You want to walk around with a lavish lifestyle while everyone around you and around the world are starving and dying that is on you or on that individual. I am not saying that you should donate all your money to charity or to some organization because that money will never see the people who need it. I personally get out there and find people who are in real trouble and I help them. Face to face and hand to hand. I used to live on a park bench and under bridges at one time. My friend was just about in the same boat. Money goes to his head when he runs up big scores and he seems to forget who he is or where he came from. I can't have that type of individual in my life.
If one does have a 500 million dollar bankroll they need to find ways to get help to the ones who need it. They don't need to have 12 mansions and 25 cars and 6000 dollar sweaters and what not. Like I said, my opinion, my rules. Not for everyone. We are all different and every man in his own mind is right. I just didn't like the image of some guy playing dice or walking around town in a 6,000 dollar sweater and a 60,000 dollar watch. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Yes, I am sure that this friend was buying the watches to have something locked up down the road so he could use it later as collateral. Honestly though 3 watches at basically retail value buying it just because he could and not thinking about buying some umbrellas when the rain comes? He had so many better spots for that money if he just wanted to lock it up in something other than cash. I dunno, when I was there and waited for him with the sales girl going over the department I was just sick... really sick. Still feel sick about it and its been over a year :)
Bill Gates may choose to use his wealth to improve the betterment of his fellow man; great, good choice, Bill: attaboy.
Another billionaire may choose not to give a penny to anyone.
In the end, while society might praise the first and look askance at the second, neither is more "correct" than the other, at least under the law.
If its legal, it's OK.
Period.
People gonna hate: just blow them off and ignore them.
- Look out for number 1 and don't step in number 2.
- Its all mind over matter... I don't mind, and it doesn't matter.
- Give without expecting anything in return, and you will never be disappointed.
- Good things happen to good people.
Next time you think about 'rolling' someone.. Firstly, think twice because you will probably be arrested. Secondly, dont hate, just feel sorry for them because they are probably insecure and have issues... or just tell yourself that and it will temper the anger.
We all know where Rolexes end up in Vegas.Quote: MathExtremistSunday morning at the MGM is always a treat. That's when you're most likely to see a guy in his mid-60s wearing a $6,000 sweater and a $60,000 Rolex playing with yellow or brown chips (if I recall, $1k and $5k). I saw someone fitting that description pull down $22,000 on one roll once -- a hard 8. He had $2k on the line, a place bet, an all-day hardway for $1k, and right before he threw the dice he hopped the hard 8 for $100. The box twitched a little when it showed.
Mmm, tasty:
Woman steals tourist's $25K Rolex, hides it inside her vagina http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/woman-conceals-nyc-tourist-rolex-vagina-officials-article-1.1983589
Quote: WatchMeWinI have my favorite spots to play craps. Top places in the US for me are Wynne, Bellagio, and Borgata. There are a multitude of reasons I enjoy these places but Ill spare the details. Where do fellow craps players here like to play Craps at?
Can't beat The Cromwell. 100x odds, great cocktail service, good dealers, usually $10 min.(sometimes $5)right in the middle of the strip.
Quote: wilbsmittCan't beat The Cromwell. 100x odds, great cocktail service, good dealers, usually $10 min.(sometimes $5)right in the middle of the strip.
I heard it is pretty nice there. I will definitely stop in on my trip. Been meaning to go to Giada's for dinner too!
Quote: wilbsmittCan't beat The Cromwell. 100x odds, great cocktail service, good dealers, usually $10 min.(sometimes $5)right in the middle of the strip.
Yup! Cromwell's 100x odds sorta put it in a category all its own. As a dedicated bottom-feeder, I get the willies just thinking about backing up my $1 pass-line bet with a black chip, even though I know how close to zero it makes the odds. But, according to the Wiz's Craps Survey, minimum bet at Cromwell craps is $10, so I would never benefit from its 100x odds.
Most Biloxi casinos have 10x odds, but the IP has 20x odds. Except on weekend nights I can often find a $5 table, which is nice. And, some Biloxi casinos -- like the Treasure Bay -- offer lower minimum bets on weekday mornings. Even with those give-away odds and table minimums, the Biloxi casinos seem to be raking in the cash.
Quote: wilbsmittCan't beat The Cromwell. 100x odds, great cocktail service, good dealers, usually $10 min.(sometimes $5)right in the middle of the strip.
100X odds at the Cromwell?
Whoa!
They're picking up where Casino Royale once was.
Excellent!
I don't think anyone who has expensive toys deserves to get rolled. That's like saying Sheldon Adelson deserves to get rolled because he drives around in a $600,000 Maybach.Quote: monet0412The point is that if your going to walk around town in 6000 dollar sweaters and 60,000 dollar watches than that person deserves to get rolled.
You know who deserves to get rolled? The kind of person who knocks off a $60,000 watch using cheap Chinese parts, puts their name on it, and tries to make a quick buck off people who aspire to own luxury products but can't afford them.
Rolex Daytona Cosmograph Diamond Edition:
Donald J Trump Signature Collection:
http://www.ablogtowatch.com/watches-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-2016-us-presidential-election/2/Quote: A Blog To Watch articleNo conversation about Donald Trump and wristwatches can be complete without discussing the horological atrocities created when the Donald J Trump Signature Collection was released in 2005. These were a series of watches that essentially knocked off the design of iconic luxury watches like the Rolex Daytona and TAG Heuer Monaco.
Okay, new strategy/goal: start with $10/$25 odds and parlay it all the way up to $10/$1000 odds (and win the bet). I figure it'll take probably 5 to 7 wins in a row.Quote: LuckyPhowBut, according to the Wiz's Craps Survey, minimum bet at Cromwell craps is $10, so I would never benefit from its 100x odds.
A bankroll of $500 gives me roughly 15 bites at the apple, give or take a few depending on what happens on come-out resolutions.
Quote: MathExtremistOkay, new strategy/goal: start with $10/$25 odds and parlay it all the way up to $10/$1000 odds (and win the bet). I figure it'll take probably 5 to 7 wins in a row.
A bankroll of $500 gives me roughly 15 bites at the apple, give or take a few depending on what happens on come-out resolutions.
I wrote a script to test this. You can just copy and paste it into WinCraps.
If initializing script Then
' ensure 100x odds and max bet $1000 set on configuration screen
name cs1.odds as "Amount to bet on odds" :
name cs2.#consecwins as "Current number of consecutive wins" :
name cs3.totalwins1000 as "Number of times a win reached $1000 level" :
name cs4.cumwins1000 as "Cumulative number of wins to reach $1000 level" :
name cs5.avgnumwinstowin1000 as "Average number of consecutive wins needed to win at $1000 level" :
name cs6.#attempts = "Total number of attempts started from $25 odds" :
name cs7.avg#attemptstowin1000 = "Average number of attempts to go from $25 odds to win at $1000 level"
EndIf
If comeout roll Then
bet $10 on passline
EndIf
If passlineodds win Then
add 1 to cs2.#consecwins
If last roll passlineodds wager >= 1000 Then
add 1 to cs3.totalwins1000 :
add cs2.#consecwins to cs4.cumwins1000 :
cs5.avgnumwinstowin1000 = cs4.cumwins1000 / cs3.totalwins1000 :
' start over
cs1.odds = 25 :
cs2.#consecwins = 0 :
add 1 to cs6.#attempts :
cs7.avg#attemptstowin1000 = cs6.#attempts / cs3.totalwins1000
Else
cs1.odds = last passlineodds win + last passlineodds wager
EndIf
ElseIf passlineodds lose Or # of rolls = 0 Then
cs1.odds = 25 :
cs2.#consecwins = 0 :
add 1 to cs6.#attempts :
cs7.avg#attemptstowin1000 = cs6.#attempts / cs3.totalwins1000
EndIf
If point And last roll was a comeout roll Then
bet cs1.odds on passlineodds
EndIf
I ran a quick 500,000 roll sim with an unlimited bankroll and got the following stats:
There were 442 times that parlayed bets won at the $1000 level.
On average it took 5.29 consecutive wins to go from $25 odds to a win at the $1000 level.
On average it took about 134 attempts starting at $25 odds to reach a win at $1000 level.
I'll add in some code for $500 bankroll sessions and see what happens with that.
Steen
Quote: MathExtremistOkay, new strategy/goal: start with $10/$25 odds and parlay it all the way up to $10/$1000 odds (and win the bet). I figure it'll take probably 5 to 7 wins in a row.
A bankroll of $500 gives me roughly 15 bites at the apple, give or take a few depending on what happens on come-out resolutions.
Ok, I wrote a script using $500 bankroll sessions. Sessions terminate when bankroll is busted or when parlay reaches a win at $1000 odds level -- basically bust or double bankroll.
Odds Parlay Script
I ran a sim for 10,000 sessions (approx 1.7 million rolls total) which resulted in:
14% winning sessions
86% losing sessions
$14.98 avg loss per session (on approx $3135 handle per session)
19.8 avg attempts per session (parlays started at $25 odds)
1.38 avg hrs per session
This system has a lot of volatility considering the high odds factors and low combined EV's. I experimented a bit with higher win goals and found the bankroll can really soar which would be a real kick, but you'd have to have a lot of mettle to get there because even the modest win-goal here happens only once every 7.14 sessions.
Steen
Quote: SteenOk, I wrote a script ...
Steen,
Very informative.
Also, many thanx for sharing the code you wrote for the script. It allows folks to see how you came to the conclusions you report. Much appreciated, both for your post and for similar posts shared by others.
Quote: SteenOk, I wrote a script using $500 bankroll sessions. Sessions terminate when bankroll is busted or when parlay reaches a win at $1000 odds level -- basically bust or double bankroll.
Wouldn't a win at $1,000 odds level yield a bankroll increase between 4.4 times and 6 times, not double?
Great, particularly if you actually make use of the 100x from time to time.Quote: wilbsmittCan't beat The Cromwell. 100x odds, great cocktail service, good dealers, usually $10 min.(sometimes $5)right in the middle of the strip.
we all like them. We all know who pays for them. Its just we hope its the OTHER players who will pay for them.
>I prefer better odds.
I imagine we all do, even those who just do the pass line.
>Mostly I play at Chinook Winds on the Oregon coast: 5X odds.
Fine. I assume its fairly close geographically. That is one thing that is happening in the nation. Casinos are ubiquitous. Why go to "las vegas" just because it was a big deal when Benny Binion was alive. Now that the MBAs run things and its Nightclubs and Famous Chefs and Drugfests, its an archaic illusion.
If you fish or sail or hunt or forage for mushrooms, the Oregon Coast must be just fine, why trek to Vegas and pay for parking when you get there.
I see there is a practice game online. That will be helpful so I can play alone.
Quote: wilbsmittWouldn't a win at $1,000 odds level yield a bankroll increase between 4.4 times and 6 times, not double?
You're absolutely right, the bankroll increase is much more than double - my bad. That was not a conclusion I pulled from the sim but something I said out of hand. I ran a longer sim sim with 60,000 sessions (about 10 million rolls) to develop a better average and confirmed the following:
14% winning sessions
86% losing sessions
19.8 avg attempts per session (parlays started at $25 odds)
1.38 avg hrs per session
However, the average loss fell to
$4.72 per session (on avg $3197 handle per session)
The average amount won for winning sessions was $2888 ranging from $1739 to $7250.
Thus the ending bankroll averaged 5.8 times beginning bankroll with a range of 3.5 to 14.5.
The outliers at the high end appear to be a result of parlays which were capped by the 100x odds limit. For example, consider five consecutive parlays on points 4 or 10:
Odds bet - Win
25 - 50
75 - 150
225 - 450
675 - 1350
1000 - 2000 <capped>
In the 5th step, the parlayed odds bet should be $2025 (675 + 1350) but gets capped at $1000, so $1025 gets racked. So even if the 5th bet loses, the bankroll increases and the parlay starts over.
Steen
Nice work, thanks for the analysis. I'll be in Las Vegas before too long, this seems like a good session all around: 1.38 hours, $500 bankroll, decent chance of parlaying up to a $1000 bet, etc. The $4.72 loss/session seems low if the hours are 1.38, though -- what rolls/hour rate are you using?Quote: Steen14% winning sessions
86% losing sessions
19.8 avg attempts per session (parlays started at $25 odds)
1.38 avg hrs per session
However, the average loss fell to
$4.72 per session (on avg $3197 handle per session)
The average amount won for winning sessions was $2888 ranging from $1739 to $7250.
Thus the ending bankroll averaged 5.8 times beginning bankroll with a range of 3.5 to 14.5.
Quote: MathExtremistNice work, thanks for the analysis. I'll be in Las Vegas before too long, this seems like a good session all around: 1.38 hours, $500 bankroll, decent chance of parlaying up to a $1000 bet, etc. The $4.72 loss/session seems low if the hours are 1.38, though -- what rolls/hour rate are you using?
The script uses whichever roll rate has been set in the game. I had mine set to 120 rph.
The average session saw about 81 decisions. Approximately 60% of those were flat bets. So at $10 each that's approx $490 in flat bet action which at -1.41% would yield an average loss of $6.90 per session.
So, the $4.72 is low and the earlier number was high. I noticed quite a bit of variance and sensitivity in this value.
Although the average session was 1.38 hrs I'm guessing you'd probably stick around and keep betting after the much shorter but successful sessions.
Steen
Wait, I don't follow about the 60%. There's always a line bet working, so if the average session was 81 decisions that should be 81*10*-1.41% = $11.42. Also, at 120 rolls/hour you're looking at about 35.5 decisions/hour so 81 decisions is about 2.28 hours. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your stats?Quote: SteenThe script uses whichever roll rate has been set in the game. I had mine set to 120 rph.
The average session saw about 81 decisions. Approximately 60% of those were flat bets. So at $10 each that's approx $490 in flat bet action which at -1.41% would yield an average loss of $6.90 per session.
If you are a 21 year old female you will ALWAYS be welcome at any Vegas game, but alot will depend on which day of the week and what time of day/night it is. If things are slow such as early morning or afternoon you can always ask questions and take your time. If its a Friday or Saturday Night, its likely to be already a bit lively and the casino will want to keep the dice moving fast, but you will still be very welcome there its just that the crew can't slow things down for you if its really, really crowded.Quote: Aimee21Are other players helpful to a new player or will I be a causing a problem?
Quote: MathExtremistWait, I don't follow about the 60%. There's always a line bet working, so if the average session was 81 decisions that should be 81*10*-1.41% = $11.42. Also, at 120 rolls/hour you're looking at about 35.5 decisions/hour so 81 decisions is about 2.28 hours. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your stats?
Sorry about the confusion. I wasn't referring to Passline decisions where flat bets and odds bets are combined as one, but rather total decisions where flat bets and odds bets are counted separately. So when points with odds are resolved, two bets are decided.
For every 36 flat bets there will be on average 24 odds bets = 60 bets total, or
F + F2/3 = Total decisions
hence
F = T3/5
So when T = 81, F = 49 (rounded) which at $10 = $490 action.
I should've pulled the flat bets data off the Bet Results screen but I was looking at the # Bets Decided on the Sessions Log (which lumps all decisions together). So I just multiplied by 60% to break out the flat bets (just looking for an approximation).
So (120 rolls/hr) / (3.376 rolls/decision) = 35.6 Passline decisions/hr
And (49 flat bets/hr) / (35.6 Passline decisions/hr) = 1.38 hours
Steen
Quote: SteenAnd (49 flat bets/hr) / (35.6 Passline decisions/hr) = 1.38 hours
Should read:
(49 decisions/session) / (35.6 decisions/hour) = 1.38 hours/session
Steen
Quote: StevenHowdinBellagio all day for me too!
Welcome to the forum, Steven! Careful with those bants, though. Sense of humor, great. Teasing, great. Insults of a kidding nature, not apparent, not great. Guessing you're good at.the occasional bon mot or you wouldn't mention it. Looking forward to hearing more from you.
Yes, its nice to be in a good atmosphere. Sort of like being in Ibiza with its seventy or eighty yoga retreats (be sure to visit Mountain Sun Yoga), quiet villages with dogs sleeping in the road because there is so little vehicular traffic, open pastures, local wines, small family restaurants with six tables and four items on the menu. Very relaxing there.Quote: StevenHowdinBellagio all day for me too!
(LOL)
Quote: FleaStiffIf you are a 21 year old female you will ALWAYS be welcome at any Vegas game, but alot will depend on which day of the week and what time of day/night it is. If things are slow such as early morning or afternoon you can always ask questions and take your time. If its a Friday or Saturday Night, its likely to be already a bit lively and the casino will want to keep the dice moving fast, but you will still be very welcome there its just that the crew can't slow things down for you if its really, really crowded.
Thank you FleaStiff. You are always helping me. I have 4 months to get ready so I think I will be able to keep up with the game by then. I feel goofy saying that since I never played before, but I will. Nervous and excited I am.
Quote: Aimee21Thank you FleaStiff. You are always helping me. I have 4 months to get ready so I think I will be able to keep up with the game by then. I feel goofy saying that since I never played before, but I will. Nervous and excited I am.
Since you've never played before, I suggest you do what I did when starting out: Order the book, "No-Nonsense Craps," by Richard Orlyn, avail. from Amazon for around $13. It is an easy read, introduces you to the various bets, odds, points out good & bad bets, talks about money management, and suggests a betting strategy for beginners. Illustrated. A slim book w/ all the essentials a beginner needs to know. Glad I read this book before my first session.
Quote: Sonny44Since you've never played before, I suggest you do what I did when starting out: Order the book, "No-Nonsense Craps," by Richard Orlyn, avail. from Amazon for around $13. It is an easy read, introduces you to the various bets, odds, points out good & bad bets, talks about money management, and suggests a betting strategy for beginners. Illustrated. A slim book w/ all the essentials a beginner needs to know. Glad I read this book before my first session.
Thank you for the suggestion Sonny44. Mission suggested that I buy American Casino Guide before my first Vegas trip and Im a girl on a strict budget. I will have to decide which book has a higher priority. Im still a newby but I have read some stuff at WizardOdds and play for practice there. Oh I hope this post makes it through. Last night I was restricted from posting anymore due to posting limits here. I think Im getting close tonight too. Bye. Bye -Aimee
In terms of atmosphere, just find the one the fits you. The prices of the drinks while you're playing are all the same :-)
