Loss Rebates
July 14th, 2016 at 4:36:10 PM
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Which is more valuable, a 10% loss rebate on 100,000 or 15% on $500,000? What are the correct quit points for blackjack (I have the 10% quit point from Wizardofodds ) and craps?
July 14th, 2016 at 4:40:37 PM
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How much can you bet? How much are you willing to bet? Any play time requirements? Is it a cash rebate and not promo chips or whatever?Quote: SeekingAdviceWhich is more valuable, a 10% loss rebate on 100,000 or 15% on $500,000? What are the correct quit points for blackjack (I have the 10% quit point from Wizardofodds ) and craps?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
July 14th, 2016 at 4:41:06 PM
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If I were in a spot where losing 100k or 500k is no biggie because I have loss rebates, the 10% is 10k and the 15% is 75k; but since you get nothing on a 495k loss, I'd say the 10%. Quit points, do you have an edge in play or are you only using loss rebates as your main edge? If you're that big, try to get 2%+ non-negotiable chips upon arrival, that would go well with the loss rebate. If the loss rebate is your main edge, I think AP Heat posted an excel spreadsheet that you can use to get your numbers from. Should be pretty good.
July 14th, 2016 at 4:49:54 PM
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Can you please tell me where I can find this spreadsheet?
July 14th, 2016 at 4:50:44 PM
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No AP in play. Just straight up loss rebate edge.
July 14th, 2016 at 4:51:20 PM
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Cash rebate no play time requirement.
July 14th, 2016 at 5:10:33 PM
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What's to stop the casino from backing you off at 450K?
If it's 10% per $100K, I think that's the better deal. If it's a one time choice, that makes it tougher.
If it's 10% per $100K, I think that's the better deal. If it's a one time choice, that makes it tougher.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
July 14th, 2016 at 6:04:54 PM
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Quote: billryanWhat's to stop the casino from backing you off at 450K?
If it's 10% per $100K, I think that's the better deal. If it's a one time choice, that makes it tougher.
Say you have a deal with them.
July 14th, 2016 at 10:25:22 PM
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You are joking, right.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
July 15th, 2016 at 8:55:43 AM
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Quote: billryanYou are joking, right.
Serious as a heart attack
July 15th, 2016 at 9:02:07 AM
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Sounds like a whale negotiating a loss rebate. Axel asked all the correct questions in the first reply that need responded to for a more accurate answer =).
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
July 15th, 2016 at 11:31:48 AM
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With what we know, the 15% of $500,000 is more valuable. Bet one hand at $500,000. Most likely either win $500k or lose $425k. Those are pretty good odds.
Pressing after a win may have even higher expected value.
Pressing after a win may have even higher expected value.
July 15th, 2016 at 12:20:29 PM
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But the most important question I didn't ask.Quote: RomesSounds like a whale negotiating a loss rebate. Axel asked all the correct questions in the first reply that need responded to for a more accurate answer =).
Where is this at?
Didn't think I would get an a answer and if I did it wouldn't be a good thing.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
July 15th, 2016 at 12:37:15 PM
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Quote: SeekingAdviceCan you please tell me where I can find this spreadsheet?
I can't seem to post the link, go on a p heat dot net and the loss rebate theorem is linked on the upper right side.
July 16th, 2016 at 1:22:39 AM
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Quote: SeekingAdviceWhich is more valuable, a 10% loss rebate on 100,000 or 15% on $500,000? What are the correct quit points for blackjack (I have the 10% quit point from Wizardofodds ) and craps?
You can formulate your own answer and the correct games to play by reading the document here. Read the "match play mania" section on page 3, and use its corresponding chart on page 5. Match play coupons are mathematically equivalent to loss rebates, so this should suffice. It is by James Grosjean, who is widely considered one of the smartest AP's on earth. You wouldn't have any reason to question his math or logic.
Jacobson's info on exploiting loss rebates in Baccarat is here.
The loss rebate theorem spreadsheet someone here was referring to is here.
Last edited by: unnamed administrator on Aug 6, 2024
July 16th, 2016 at 7:21:11 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfBut the most important question I didn't ask.
Where is this at?
Didn't think I would get an a answer and if I did it wouldn't be a good thing.
Not likely to get that info. LOL
July 16th, 2016 at 7:34:40 PM
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Actually, these discounts are relatively uncommon. I know of at least 3 Vegas casinos I could call tomorrow and get 15% on $500K, and I know the exact people at these properties to call. But it's not the kind of money I could reasonably put at risk, and I tried asking about teaming up with others on another forum for a rebate play at that level once and was practically laughed off the forum.
July 17th, 2016 at 7:48:41 AM
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Team play with rebates is a great idea. It may be hard to find people who can put up a lot that still want to join a team.
July 17th, 2016 at 9:46:00 AM
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Not something I think I would ever get involved In
No longer hiring, don’t ask because I won’t hire you either
