Why more odds desirable?

I see on craps forums players like casinos that offer the most odds. Why is this, since taking/laying odds only increases your volatility? You're still subject to the craps pyramid and the variance in the rolls. It may the no-HA, but still, the more money you have down is more you stand to lose. Maybe it's just an ego thing, the thrill of victory, the agony of defeat. Maybe I don't understand the psyche of gamblers.

Look at it from the opposite point of view, that of the House. In general, the House doesn't like to offer much in free odds. It takes a competitive situation for them to offer more, and in a non-competitive one, they will try to offer almost nothing.

So, yes, you will hear a lot in the next few posts why the players shouldn't care. The fact of the matter, though, is that if you will play smartly you can put more and more of your action into zero house edge betting. It is also true you can approach it stupidly and just increase your total action for no benefit.

well, you answered your own question: no ha

the "psyche" of some gamblers is "long(er) term", especially those that play frequently...as a percentage of their overall risk, odds takers are "expected" to lose a lower percentage of that risked...of course they are NOT expected to lose less in terms of gross dollar amounts...using 10x odds as an example the odds taker might risk $1000 on the line and $10,000 on the odds...the line only bettor risks only the $1k...ON AVERAGE both will lose the same, about $14, yes, but $14 is only .12% of the odds-takers stake but a healthier 1.41% of the line only bettors risk...

you are correct of course about the much greater volatility for the odds-taker...your particular constitution and tolerance for risk differs from others and as always "ya picks yer p'ison & ya takes yer chances"...

tom "home runs are sometimes boring" p

Quote: Sonny44

It may the no-HA, but still, the more money you have down is more you stand to lose.

Also the more you stand to win. Not exactly a peripheral point.

If the increase in variance is all that is produced, the House should be able to stand it more than the player.

But the fact is, it is possible to place your action into bets that produce nothing for the House. Many, many players, however, only increase their variance without lowering what they are exposing to the house edge. You have to understand what is offered to you when you get better free odds to work with.

Quote: odiousgambit

...the House doesn't like to offer much in free odds. It takes a competitive situation for them to offer more, and in a non-competitive one, they will try to offer almost nothing...

hoo, man ain't that the truth!!

i am just back from almost 90 days in oz...craps is not very big there at all and there are less than a dozen craps tables in that entire country of just over 14 million peoples (with perhaps 20 million there at any given time including tourists, the vast majority from asia)...only TWO of these tables are open 7 days a week! NONE 24/7...perth, a metropolitan area of over 2 million peoples, has ZERO craps tables despite having a quite large---even by vegas standards---casino!....THEREFORE with the exception of one very small rail every table in the country offers but 2x odds (that exception, 3x-4x-5x odds, is in alice springs, ironically the furthest distant from any competition of any of 'em!)

despite this paucity of opportunity i rarely had to wait long for a spot at the rail...no, craps is not big at all there...i wonder if this is not dissimilar to the rest of the world...craps is quintessentially an american game, i think...

this is in huge contrast to the acres and acres(!) of roulette tables and roulette machines (a great many of which are in huge arrays tied to real, physical wheels)...pai gow and baccarat games vastly outnumber craps tables...it might be a close call but at the casinos in sydney and melbourne asians outnumber all the rest...my subjective impression is about 75% of the names drawn for the promotions at these 2 places were asian...PA announcements are in both 'ustralian english and chinese (i could understand neither LOL)....

yep, aussie odds are straight out of 1960s nevada...

tom p

Quote: betwthelines

... the odds taker might risk $1000 on the line and $10,000 on the odds...the line only bettor risks only the $1k...ON AVERAGE both will lose the same, about $14, yes, but $14 is only .12% of the odds-takers stake but a healthier 1.41% of the line only bettors risk...

i "might" have added that .12% is not too terribly distant from a coin flip...
tom p
ps and might also maintain that 100x odds, actually available in some, few places, IS a "virtual" coin flip!

Quote: Sonny44

I see on craps forums players like casinos that offer the most odds. Why is this, since taking/laying odds only increases your volatility?

If you don't like volatility, make I suggest the game under the sign that says "change."

Quote: Wizard

If you don't like volatility, make I suggest the game under the sign that says "change."

WIZARD BURN

Ah, Wizard, don't be so defensive. BTW, you offer nothing why one would prefer a casino that pays 100x odds to one that pays 2x odds. Might there be something to the fact that many casinos have opted to go to 3/4/5x, because they were losing money on the higher free odds? Maybe that's what's behind your suggestion to always take maximum odds. (Provided your bankroll can stand it, of course.)

Quote: Sonny44

Might there be something to the fact that many casinos have opted to go to 3/4/5x, because they were losing money on the higher free odds?

Wouldn't be because of the game, right? Are you referring to overhead costs or something else? If that's the case, it's figured into the house edge on the flat bet.

"Fun" is more likely to correlate to "total action" or "potential win" than it is to house edge. I have as much fun playing $5 pass line 10x odds as I do playing $10 pass line 3-4-5x. Therefore, all other things being equal (comps + drink service), I'm better off playing at the casino that offers 10x odds since I'll lose at half the rate.

However, a 100x odds casino has no benefit to me over a 10x odds one, since I'm not going to wager more than $50 on my odds bet. But if fun to me was betting $500 an outcome, then the 100x odds casino would be hugely more valuable than the 10x one.

You are correct though that for most gamblers, a 100x odds offering is useless.

Quote: Wizard

If you don't like volatility, make I suggest the game under the sign that says "change."

Quote: teddys

WIZARD BURN

reKt

savage AF

Quote: Wizard

If you don't like volatility, make I suggest the game under the sign that says "change."

Alway good to get a chuckle at 5am.

Our member Teddys gets extremely clever where more odds are offered than the players will take - result being, said member with nothing on the pass line and still getting to play the free odds.

You have to be playing with friends you can trust.

How often would a place that offers 100x odds actually see someone take that much?

Quote: Aussie

How often would a place that offers 100x odds actually see someone take that much?

Edit: Moved my response here for a 100x odds discussion specific to a casino.

You are correct, but lots of gamblers like volatility. That's the whole idea behind craps players who press their bets. Go big or go home. For me personally, it's not a big deal to get anything bigger than 3x4x5x, as I very rarely go bigger than 2x anyway even at a $5 table. But for those who want to get down lots of money, it's obviously better to be able to go $5 passline and $100 odds instead of having to go $25+$75.

This makes sense.

Quote: sabre

"Fun" is more likely to correlate to "total action" or "potential win" than it is to house edge. I have as much fun playing $5 pass line 10x odds as I do playing $10 pass line 3-4-5x. Therefore, all other things being equal (comps + drink service), I'm better off playing at the casino that offers 10x odds since I'll lose at half the rate.

However, a 100x odds casino has no benefit to me over a 10x odds one, since I'm not going to wager more than $50 on my odds bet. But if fun to me was betting $500 an outcome, then the 100x odds casino would be hugely more valuable than the 10x one.

You are correct though that for most gamblers, a 100x odds offering is useless.

This explains a lot. Thanks.

The more important thing is to bet the minimum on the pass line and bet the amount of odds appropriate for your variance tolerance. For most people 100X is overkill. One caveat to this though is if the casino includes odds into your comp calculation, then yeah, it's more advantageous to bet more odds.

Quote: tringlomane

One caveat to this though is if the casino includes odds into your comp calculation

Does anywhere actually do this? That would be amazing.

Quote: MrGoldenSun

Does anywhere actually do this? That would be amazing.

Harrah's does. Not sure about all CET, but both their LV and Biloxi properties do.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Harrah's does. Not sure about all CET, but both their LV and Biloxi properties do.

That really surprises me. Thanks.

I think I have gotten my average bet rated better at a couple of places due to free odds, rather inconsistently.

I wouldn't count on free odds getting rated. Places that might do that are where pit bosses are given a lot of latitude. I'd be impressed if you saw it in writing. Surely they are not supposed to, with possible exception where the 'points' are truly near worthless and the free odds are limited.

Thanks. That makes sense. I think I'm not gonna do anything crazy in the pursuit of comp dollars.