Sam Grafstein

Maddening when one get's kicked out before finishing a long post. Wanted to begin this thread hoping for feedback from more experienced players in our group. I was able to figure out one concept in his book. He recommends a 'sensible progressive betting' method of 50% when playing the PL with odds. Simple and smart because each winning roll pays for all previous rolls and you make money on that shooter. Although he never gives a reason for this type of progressive betting I think that would be his answer.

Other ideas are not so obvious to me. An example. He claims that parlaying the 7/s or 11's on winning the comeout roll is one of the smartest moves at the table. In a single odds game he shoots for a 2 BET PARLAY and if playing double or triple odds, a 3 BET PARLAY.

I had been doing this then someone told me that a better bet would bet would be to take my money down on a comeout win--save the winnings--and put the money towards the odds portion of the bet.

Thoughts or comments, and what does the math say? Yeah, the odds far more favor the 7 or 11s on the comeout over craps.

Quote: eclectic

Other ideas are not so obvious to me. An example. He claims that parlaying the 7/s or 11's on winning the comeout roll is one of the smartest moves at the table.

That's not even remotely close if your goal is to lose the least. That's enough to demonstrate that you should put his advice on par with what you can get from your cat.

I bought and read the book. I too am dismayed at the parlay for pass or no-pass. Doesn't make sense. The only positive point is his long story about winning $640 on a nickel don't pass. Like I've never heard a story before. How about the EV on these bets? Did not write it because it looks pretty bad.

As a hot shooter and a don't better im looking for a nice pass-line system just for me and me alone. And, I may use parlay here I don't know yet. I throw a lot of cool come-out numbers making come-out pretty crazy. I am very safe allowing myself to get 2 points then coming in against myself, but my new pass bet could prove productive.

I want to attempt to play into my long rolls and multiple points and not play into my eventual 7out like I successfully do on everyone else.


Looking for my next lesson or book.

Quote: rushdl

I bought and read the book. I too am dismayed at the parlay for pass or no-pass. Doesn't make sense. The only positive point is his long story about winning $640 on a nickel don't pass. Like I've never heard a story before. How about the EV on these bets? Did not write it because it looks pretty bad.

As a hot shooter and a don't better im looking for a nice pass-line system just for me and me alone. And, I may use parlay here I don't know yet. I throw a lot of cool come-out numbers making come-out pretty crazy. I am very safe allowing myself to get 2 points then coming in against myself, but my new pass bet could prove productive.

I want to attempt to play into my long rolls and multiple points and not play into my eventual 7out like I successfully do on everyone else.


Looking for my next lesson or book.

I haven't published my book yet, a couple of respected publishing houses have sort of laughed at me, and my book. Perseverance is a virtue I'm told. I will include more hookers and blow in the next upcoming rewrite. Just 2F

Well then what do you suggest? Only place or lay bets and ignore the PL/DP w/odds? I'm all ears; err.............eyes.

Well, I haven't read anything better for playing the PL/DP cause he only has one bet working and 'qualifies' a shooter by not betting on them unless they make a point first. By taking odds, (along w/playing only the point number) he claims the HE is the lowest.

Quote: eclectic

Well, I haven't read anything better for playing the PL/DP cause he only has one bet working and 'qualifies' a shooter by not betting on them unless they make a point first. By taking odds, (along w/playing only the point number) he claims the HE is the lowest.

I'd always recommend this one first. Best bet in the house imo.

you know sam made his money banking games and they weren't all on the up and up. Or did you.

Quote: ontariodealer

you know sam made his money banking games and they weren't all on the up and up. Or did you.

He is pretty honest about that in the book im sure there;s a lot more he cant say.

i worked for him in the 70's...the book was just to get some cash

Quote: ontariodealer

..the book was just to get some cash

As is it always.

I'm trying to unofficially beat his 22 win record.