Rule Variations
January 21st, 2016 at 9:23:46 AM
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Howdy!
I played craps in Tunica this past weekend and noticed a couple different items on the table:
A) When an 11 is rolled a point is established instead of winning on the come out roll and
B) The don't pass bet/line and don't come bet does not exist, only the pass line.
Could someone give me an idea of the difference in house edge this would make?
I played craps in Tunica this past weekend and noticed a couple different items on the table:
A) When an 11 is rolled a point is established instead of winning on the come out roll and
B) The don't pass bet/line and don't come bet does not exist, only the pass line.
Could someone give me an idea of the difference in house edge this would make?
January 21st, 2016 at 9:27:24 AM
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was it crapless craps?
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed.
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January 21st, 2016 at 9:30:17 AM
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No, it was normal.
January 21st, 2016 at 9:31:19 AM
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That sounds like the definition of crapless craps. If it wasn't, then it's anything but normal =P.Quote: OhLawdNo, it was normal.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
January 21st, 2016 at 9:34:52 AM
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Quote: RomesThat sounds like the definition of crapless craps. If it wasn't, then it's anything but normal =P.
I just realized I was playing crapless craps. I just read up on that section on the Wizard's main site.
Thanks for the help!
January 21st, 2016 at 9:47:42 AM
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They had a crapless craps table at the Strat in Las Vegas a couple years ago: I don't recall seeing it at any other strip casinos.
An interesting concept, but the math says to avoid it, at least when compared to traditional craps.
An interesting concept, but the math says to avoid it, at least when compared to traditional craps.
"What, me worry?"
January 21st, 2016 at 9:59:29 AM
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Crapless was the only dice table going at Harrah's in Biloxi when I was there last Saturday morning. I mainly bet the 6 & 8 rather than my usual Pass & 1 or 2 Come bets, since the place payouts are the same (craps vs. crapless).Quote: MrVThey had a crapless craps table at the Strat in Las Vegas a couple years ago: I don't recall seeing it at any other strip casinos.
An interesting concept, but the math says to avoid it, at least when compared to traditional craps.
Still looking for a crapless layout with the DP/DC! ;)
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
January 28th, 2016 at 10:29:15 AM
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Can you imagine a crapless layout with a 10 point Firebet? What would the payouts look like?
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
January 28th, 2016 at 11:10:37 AM
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Too big for the casino to spread without jackpot insurance. The odds of making *any* 10 points in crapless, repeats or otherwise, is 1 in 137028.Quote: DeMangoCan you imagine a crapless layout with a 10 point Firebet? What would the payouts look like?
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
January 28th, 2016 at 4:06:31 PM
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Quote: DeMangoCan you imagine a crapless layout with a 10 point Firebet? What would the payouts look like?
| Points | Probability | Pays | Return |
|---|---|---|---|
| 0 | 0.63229437229 | -1 | -0.6322943723 |
| 1 | 0.24599013126 | -1 | -0.2459901313 |
| 2 | 0.08619336014 | -1 | -0.08619336014 |
| 3 | 0.02662294319 | -1 | -0.02662294319 |
| 4 | 0.00705126058 | 24 | 0.169230254 |
| 5 | 0.00154448824 | 249 | 0.3845775707 |
| 6 | 0.00026653761 | 999 | 0.2662710757 |
| 7 | 0.00003388596 | 999 | 0.03385207888 |
| 8 | 0.00000287835 | 999 | 0.002875469518 |
| 9 | 0.00000013946 | 999 | 0.0001393238923 |
| 10 | 0.00000000290 | 999 | 0.000002896973995 |
| 1.00000000000 | -0.1341521372 |
spreadsheet
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January 28th, 2016 at 10:40:36 PM
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Thanks but there should be increasing payouts for 7 then 8, then 9 then 10 points. Maybe a million bucks for all 10 unique points?
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
January 28th, 2016 at 10:43:37 PM
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Quote: MathExtremistToo big for the casino to spread without jackpot insurance. The odds of making *any* 10 points in crapless, repeats or otherwise, is 1 in 137028.
And if you go to all 10 unique points, are you then in 18 yo's in a row territory??
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
January 29th, 2016 at 5:47:34 AM
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By my math and using Miplet's chart, a shooter making all 10 points twice in a row wouldn't even get you there.Quote: DeMangoAnd if you go to all 10 unique points, are you then in 18 yo's in a row territory??
He would also, perhaps on the way to the cage to cash his chips, have to sit down at a VP machine, play 1 hand of JoB and hit a royal flush. Oh, and assuming there was a "double-up" feature on the machine, he would also have to successfully double his winnings 3 times to finally get into "18 yo's in a row" territory.
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
January 29th, 2016 at 6:10:49 AM
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How about this paytable? If you reduce the 5-point payout, you could add some attractive jackpots for the increasing points, and still maintain a similar HE.Quote: DeMangoThanks but there should be increasing payouts for 7 then 8, then 9 then 10 points. Maybe a million bucks for all 10 unique points?
Credit to Miplet for doing all the heavy lifting here:
| Points | Probability | Pays | Return |
|---|---|---|---|
| 0 | 0.63229437229 | -1 | -0.6322943723 |
| 1 | 0.24599013126 | -1 | -0.2459901313 |
| 2 | 0.08619336014 | -1 | -0.08619336014 |
| 3 | 0.02662294319 | -1 | -0.02662294319 |
| 4 | 0.00705126058 | 24 | 0.169230254 |
| 5 | 0.00154448824 | 199 | 0.3073531597 |
| 6 | 0.00026653761 | 999 | 0.2662710757 |
| 7 | 0.00003388596 | 1,999 | 0.0677380340 |
| 8 | 0.00000287835 | 9,999 | 0.0287806216 |
| 9 | 0.00000013946 | 99,999 | 0.0139458605 |
| 10 | 0.00000000290 | 999,999 | 0.002899997 |
| 1.00000000000 | -0.134881807 |
Does this mean that a casino would want to see a higher HE to cover the cost of the insurance, or would they rather just pass on the idea altogether?Quote: MathExtremistToo big for the casino to spread without jackpot insurance.
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
