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Artemis
Artemis
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March 13th, 2016 at 10:58:36 AM permalink
OK, Math. In conclusion, it appears that craps is not a Skill-Based-Game, i.e., a shooter can't measure/demostrate his edge/+EVs on the game. Perhaps shooters should switch to the Guitar Hero, a Skilled-Based-Game.


http://ifrahonigaming.com/guitar-hero-for-cash-new-jersey-issues-temporary-regulations-for-skill-based-gaming/

Hey, what is a professional guitarist's edge on the Guitar Hero?
I'm OK with Corps which pick and choose clienteles. Both insurance companies and casinos have the right to pick and choose customers. They may keep profitable ones and kicked out the rest. But, I'm not OK with a casino supervisor who says counting cards... is like stealing food from a buffet (a foodlifting offense), or video-taping a movie in a cinema (a piracy offense).
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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March 13th, 2016 at 11:54:26 AM permalink
Quote: Artemis

OK, Math. In conclusion, it appears that craps is not a Skill-Based-Game, i.e., a shooter can't measure/demostrate his edge/+EVs on the game.

It's certainly the casino's expectation that craps is not a skill-based game. However, if a shooter actually did have any skill, it wouldn't be hard to measure it and calculate the edge. But that would take a lot more rigor than what's been displayed by the DI crowd thus far. Counting sevens, without paying attention to anything else, is hardly sufficient.

In other words, either the vocal proponents of DI don't have any skill at throwing the dice, or they don't have any skill at statistics. Maybe both.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
DeMango
DeMango
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March 13th, 2016 at 1:43:29 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist



In other words, either the vocal proponents of DI don't have any skill at throwing the dice, or they don't have any skill at statistics. Maybe both.



There are dice programs out there. Seldom used.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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March 13th, 2016 at 2:42:39 PM permalink
That makes sense if, as you suggest, everyone's throw is different. There's no way software could be flexible enough to handle the various permutations for how someone might be attempting to control the dice without spending months or years working on it, and that'd never be a worthwhile investment for a software engineer. You're far better off just using a spreadsheet.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
MrV
MrV
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March 13th, 2016 at 2:53:21 PM permalink
Is Bone Tracker of any useful assistance?

see: Bone Tracker download
"What, me worry?"
DeMango
DeMango
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March 14th, 2016 at 4:33:32 AM permalink
That is exactly what I was talking about. Excell based.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
dicesitter
dicesitter
Joined: Jan 17, 2013
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March 19th, 2016 at 8:58:00 AM permalink
Well my seven day suspension took awhile. I think the folks at the site hoped
I had just gone away.

See I learned a couple of things, first I can still count to seven, and second you don't
question the establishment on the site.

The first was useful in that it allowed time for play with 2 wins and one loss.

The second was useful as well because I now understand what the problem is here
and I feel a little bad about that. If you go over to your friends house for dinner
and you know he makes hot dogs or pizza you don't ask him to make
baumkuchen for a treat.

After math said he will never practice, I felt silly, you cant understand what the
results of 20,000-30,000 practice rolls tell you about your shot or your sets or
what one sets reveals differently from another set if you have never taken or
recorded a single shot. I was silly to expect a conversation based on common
understanding of events and that was my fault. I wont make that mistake
again.

On the other hand, what is rather important to this current discussion is the
idea that a spread sheet is all you need, and a few thousand rolls should do it.

This may be fun to do and I guess we have all ( well not all) done this. But in
terms of making money at the table, is not that helpful. First most of the
programs such as smartcraps and bonecracker instruct you to reveal "the"
results of each shot in terms of left die and right die and the results are
judged against your starting position of the left die and the right die.
The best shots don't use that type of set up, so that makes this data useless, in
addition you don't go to the table and throw 1000 shots. If you take
more than a few shots of your dice to determine whether your shot is
working properly or there is a need for something different, you better have
a large bank account.

I understand this point of view, a person says I don't have an edge, so don't tell me
you do unless you can prove it. Hey that makes sense to me, if the person was
trying to sell you something. On the other hand, I doubt if any serious person
would assume there is only one way to throw a pair of dice.




dicesetter
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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March 20th, 2016 at 10:29:46 PM permalink
It doesn't matter how many different ways you want to throw the dice if they're all capable of altering the edge. You've claimed that you can influence the dice and play at least a break-even game. Above you appear to be claiming that you can "determine whether your shot is working properly" within just a few rolls.

If that's right, then how often does your shot work properly?
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
djatc
djatc
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March 21st, 2016 at 2:44:11 AM permalink
I find it funny every time ME asks dicesitter to quantify his edge, or to answer a simple numbers question dicesitter replies with a bunch of tldr that doesn't answer any question.
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
RS
RS
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March 21st, 2016 at 4:22:32 AM permalink
I'm still waiting for dicesitter to post a spreadsheet of his real-life rolls, with what the dice roll frequency/distribution is, what his edge is on the pass line or whichever bets he makes, as well as how many SD's the results (not win/loss, but dice distribution results) are from expected. That's really all I want to see. If there are multiple dice-sets or tosses or whatever they're called, make a spreadsheet with the same information for those tosses as well. At this point, I'd at least like to see if dicesitter knows what these numbers would mean and how to use them.

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