DI gunslinger
Thread Rating:
Poll
 | 1 vote (16.66%) | ||
| | 3 votes (50%) | ||
| | 1 vote (16.66%) | ||
| | 1 vote (16.66%) |
6 members have voted
I showed him some videos of Bob Munden and he quickly changed his tune.
So I was wondering if seeing the amazing control of hands and eyes that Bob Munden exhibits, the possibility of DI is less doubtful.
NOW, I am not a proponent for DI. I personally cannot do it and don't know anyone who can. I, actually am of the opinion it can't be done... but then I watch these videos of Bob Munden and suddenly aren't so sure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7HN7THecwg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsU5AMxvlKg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQo2Or1PuEI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGZC60PCaiM
Quote: darkozI was watching some spaghetti westerns recently...
He looks amazingly fast on video, but there could be frames missing from the film couldn't there?
Much of the trick shot video people produce nowadays (often kids) is just doing the same thing over until something desired happens.
pick your category
I'm willing to bet that if anyone is ever shown to be able to do verifiable non-random dice rolling, that person will insist on a specific set of circumstances that are not typically going to be allowed in a casino.
Quote: odiousgambitI'm willing to bet that if anyone is ever shown to be able to do verifiable non-random dice rolling, that person will insist on a specific set of circumstances that are not typically going to be allowed in a casino.
In which event their claim would be irrelevant and nonsensical.
Nobody cares how they roll Monopoly dice on the kitchen table; the only playing field is a craps table with standard sized dice.
And if anyone is really a DI please invite me to bet along with you at the table. I would never turn down an invitation to play with a real DI.
Yes, I will keep your name confidential just as I kept the name of the surgeon from Washington state confidential.
Quote: odiousgambit...I'm willing to bet that if anyone is ever shown to be able to do verifiable non-random dice rolling, that person will insist on a specific set of circumstances that are not typically going to be allowed in a casino.
Quote: MrVIn which event their claim would be irrelevant and nonsensical.
Nobody cares how they roll Monopoly dice on the kitchen table; the only playing field is a craps table with standard sized dice.
yep. that is all correct.
the LACK OF -none, nada, zilch - evidence for "verifiable non-random dice rolling" under live casino conditions is manifest...in the century or so for the claim to influence bank craps dice, not even the ATTEMPT has ever been made to scientifically seek such evidence under live casino conditions, the only conditions that matter
...this was at first curious to me until i finally figured out that it is in NO ONE's vested interest to actually scientifically prove influence...sellers of books, seminars etc certainly find no need & anyone holding such replicable evidence is not posting about it on public forums and indeed is probably terrified at the prospect of such knowledge becoming available, a real threat to her lifestyle as she sips mint juleps on her private island 6,8 months of the year, touring diverse multitudes of bank craps rails the other months...
...DI apologists will protest that such evidence is "impractical" or even impossible...i don't buy that for a second...that it would require sanguine belief, yes...that it would require solid commitment of time and (probably...lol) money, yes...that it would require such determination plus likely over a year's time, yes...maybe more than a year even for scientific (mathematical) validity but so what? the controversy is a century old, what'sa couple-a years?
impractical? judging from the smirks i sometimes see on the faces of the suits and crew, pad and pencil at the rail is not only tolerated but welcomed! that the casino would be unaware of "what is going on" is unlikely but in either case irrelevant... bemusement probably their strongest reaction...
ah...yes...i know...this is all immaterial blathering...
tom "home runs are sometimes boring" p
-g. geist: so why are you even posting it?
--tom p: don't be coy! you already know most of my shit is trivial blubbering
---g. geist: right
----tom p:
Do you still believe that? If you can influence the dice and you bet the wrong way, you will have a worse edge than normal. It can absolutely hurt to try.Quote: AlanMendelsonI think DI is possible. I am positive not every schlepp who goes to "dice school" can do it. I also said it doesn't hurt to try. So why not leave it at that?
Quote: MathExtremistIf you can influence the dice and you bet the wrong way, you will have a worse edge than normal.
Indeed.
The casinos allow dice setting because they consider it a harmless affectation, another craps superstition.
If in fact it was conclusively proven to work, it would not be allowed, as it would be considered cheating.
For example, the point is six; shooter is a DI who can demonstrably influence the outcome in his favor; given that, the Don't players are denied the random roll they should receive.
Craps is premised completely upon a random roll.
No exceptions to the rule.
Quote: MathExtremistDo you still believe that? If you can influence the dice and you bet the wrong way, you will have a worse edge than normal. It can absolutely hurt to try.
I've been trying to suggest this in the other thread for what seems like forever now, and its still not sinking in to most.
Even if I am a DI, even if YOU could DI, its not going to make a difference if you aren't betting "right", or in this case, your most common numbers. Most people who haven't actually taken the time to throw the dice in the first place, haven't wrapped their heads around the idea that DI's CANNOT CONTROL THE NUMBER THAT COMES UP, we can merely influence it by rolling in such a way with a specific combination that we might be able to lessen the likelihood of something or increase its likelihood.
Quote: betwthelinesyep. that is all correct.
the LACK OF -none, nada, zilch - evidence for "verifiable non-random dice rolling" under live casino conditions is manifest...in the century or so for the claim to influence bank craps dice, not even the ATTEMPT has ever been made to scientifically seek such evidence under live casino conditions, the only conditions that matter
...this was at first curious to me until i finally figured out that it is in NO ONE's vested interest to actually scientifically prove influence...sellers of books, seminars etc certainly find no need & anyone holding such replicable evidence is not posting about it on public forums and indeed is probably terrified at the prospect of such knowledge becoming available, a real threat to her lifestyle as she sips mint juleps on her private island 6,8 months of the year, touring diverse multitudes of bank craps rails the other months...
...DI apologists will protest that such evidence is "impractical" or even impossible...i don't buy that for a second...that it would require sanguine belief, yes...that it would require solid commitment of time and (probably...lol) money, yes...that it would require such determination plus likely over a year's time, yes...maybe more than a year even for scientific (mathematical) validity but so what? the controversy is a century old, what'sa couple-a years?
impractical? judging from the smirks i sometimes see on the faces of the suits and crew, pad and pencil at the rail is not only tolerated but welcomed! that the casino would be unaware of "what is going on" is unlikely but in either case irrelevant... bemusement probably their strongest reaction...
ah...yes...i know...this is all immaterial blathering...
tom "home runs are sometimes boring" p
-g. geist: so why are you even posting it?
--tom p: don't be coy! you already know most of my shit is trivial blubbering
---g. geist: right
----tom p:
If the value of my time was taken care of, and the security of my identity taken care of, I'd have zero issues being the guinea pig in such an experiment, but you have to consider the risk here as well for such a thing to be "proven". If I need to spell them out to you, please ask and I'll explain the laundry list for you.
Prove DI works and you'll be very wealthy.Quote: Exoter175I've been trying to suggest this in the other thread for what seems like forever now, and its still not sinking in to most.
Even if I am a DI, even if YOU could DI, its not going to make a difference if you aren't betting "right", or in this case, your most common numbers. Most people who haven't actually taken the time to throw the dice in the first place, haven't wrapped their heads around the idea that DI's CANNOT CONTROL THE NUMBER THAT COMES UP, we can merely influence it by rolling in such a way with a specific combination that we might be able to lessen the likelihood of something or increase its likelihood.Quote: betwthelinesyep. that is all correct.
the LACK OF -none, nada, zilch - evidence for "verifiable non-random dice rolling" under live casino conditions is manifest...in the century or so for the claim to influence bank craps dice, not even the ATTEMPT has ever been made to scientifically seek such evidence under live casino conditions, the only conditions that matter
...this was at first curious to me until i finally figured out that it is in NO ONE's vested interest to actually scientifically prove influence...sellers of books, seminars etc certainly find no need & anyone holding such replicable evidence is not posting about it on public forums and indeed is probably terrified at the prospect of such knowledge becoming available, a real threat to her lifestyle as she sips mint juleps on her private island 6,8 months of the year, touring diverse multitudes of bank craps rails the other months...
...DI apologists will protest that such evidence is "impractical" or even impossible...i don't buy that for a second...that it would require sanguine belief, yes...that it would require solid commitment of time and (probably...lol) money, yes...that it would require such determination plus likely over a year's time, yes...maybe more than a year even for scientific (mathematical) validity but so what? the controversy is a century old, what'sa couple-a years?
impractical? judging from the smirks i sometimes see on the faces of the suits and crew, pad and pencil at the rail is not only tolerated but welcomed! that the casino would be unaware of "what is going on" is unlikely but in either case irrelevant... bemusement probably their strongest reaction...
ah...yes...i know...this is all immaterial blathering...
tom "home runs are sometimes boring" p
-g. geist: so why are you even posting it?
--tom p: don't be coy! you already know most of my shit is trivial blubbering
---g. geist: right
----tom p:
If the value of my time was taken care of, and the security of my identity taken care of, I'd have zero issues being the guinea pig in such an experiment, but you have to consider the risk here as well for such a thing to be "proven". If I need to spell them out to you, please ask and I'll explain the laundry list for you.
Quote: AxelWolfProve DI works and you'll be very wealthy.
The problem with that sentence is that it ignored the fact that "DI works" isn't a thing. There's influence, and then there's betting your influence. Its not simply something that "is" or "isn't". A shooter that can influence the dice well and create a very specific pattern of rolls could still lose if he's not betting them, which would make DI "not work", which is in large part one of the biggest reasons DI turns people away when they "try" to make it work, because they just assume that if you throw the hardways set with a very specific throw and are able to repeat that mechanic over and over again, they'll make money. The fact is, you probably won't if you aren't digging deeper into the reality of what DI is really about, and just about everyone doesn't do that.
Again though, I'll be the guinea pig if my time is fairly compensated for, my identity protected, and my "product" not being filmed for later re purposing towards some BS "Golden touch" marketing scam.
Quote: MrVThe casinos allow dice setting because they consider it a harmless affectation, another craps superstition.
I know it's a superstition. And I guess that's why I was told to leave the craps pit at NYNY and at MGM Grand the suits told all the table boxmen not to let me shoot. And yes, there was that incident at Bellagio too... but the new host I have there now says I am welcome to play again and I have been.
I never really influenced the dice. I only set them and had a controlled throw. But it was the LOOK alone that got me booted.
And what did the boxman at NYNY say when he took the dice away from me after I made a pass and told me to leave the pit (his exact words were: "you're through")? He said "we believe in dice control."
Quote: Exoter175I'll be the guinea pig if my time is fairly compensated for, my identity protected, and my "product" not being filmed for later re purposing towards some BS "Golden touch" marketing scam.
Isn't winning from the casino enough compensation for you? If I can't film (video you) for TV why would I ever think about paying you money?
Rob Singer never asked me for a dime when I put his special plays on my website. And he is a published author. Who the heck are you besides someone who joined this forum less than a month ago?
Quote: AlanMendelsonIsn't winning from the casino enough compensation for you? If I can't film (video you) for TV why would I ever think about paying you money?
Rob Singer never asked me for a dime when I put his special plays on my website. And he is a published author. Who the heck are you besides someone who joined this forum less than a month ago?
Ever heard the phrase "Time is Money" Alan?
My time is worth money, probably more than yours. Why would I ever show ANYONE something for free, and then let them video tape it so they can make money off of it later?
You just said that if you can't film for TV, why would you ever think about paying me money. The answer to that, is simple, because whatever you're going to do with it, will generate YOU money, and unlike many people in this world, I'm not going to let others make money off of me, without me getting part of it.
Quote: Exoter175Ever heard the phrase "Time is Money" Alan?
I'm in the Infomercial business.
One minute on the History Channel on Saturday night following Pawn Stars costs $421.05 when you buy a half hour Infomercial.
One minute on my Saturday 5:30pm show here in LA on KCAL Channel 9 costs $450 including production and my appearance in your spot.
I will sign whatever confidentiality agreement you want including a promise never to market or promote your "system" "method" or whatever technique you claim to have BUT you must allow me to post here on this forum if I consider you to be a true DI.
And how will I determine that? I will let you tell me how to determine that. I will simply report if YOU and I made MONEY on your roll. You will roll, you will bet and I will copy your bets. It's that simple.
PS. You don't make more money than I do.
Quote: AlanMendelsonI'm in the Infomercial business.
One minute on the History Channel on Saturday night following Pawn Stars costs $421.05 when you buy a half hour Infomercial.
One minute on my Saturday 5:30pm show here in LA on KCAL Channel 9 costs $450 including production and my appearance in your spot.
I will sign whatever confidentiality agreement you want including a promise never to market or promote your "system" "method" or whatever technique you claim to have BUT you must allow me to post here on this forum if I consider you to be a true DI.
And how will I determine that? I will let you tell me how to determine that. I will simply report if YOU and I made MONEY on your roll. You will roll, you will bet and I will copy your bets. It's that simple.
PS. You don't make more money than I do.
Did I say you couldn't post on the forum, Alan?
Did you even read the specifics of what I requested?
Do I need to break it down and explain it further?
The only money I hope to make off of you will be because of your DI and rolling at a craps table.
I will sign whatever confidentiality agreements you want pertaining to your name, methodology, etc and I will not reveal anything BUT the results of that craps session.
So, do you want to set up an appointment to meet at the casino and table of your choice? If so, PM me. I won't reveal the details until AFTER the event and only then will I post the results on this forum.
Do it or go away.
Quote: AlanMendelsonLet me make this clear to you, Exoter:
The only money I hope to make off of you will be because of your DI and rolling at a craps table.
I will sign whatever confidentiality agreements you want pertaining to your name, methodology, etc and I will not reveal anything BUT the results of that craps session.
So, do you want to set up an appointment to meet at the casino and table of your choice? If so, PM me. I won't reveal the details until AFTER the event and only then will I post the results on this forum.
Do it or go away.
Yeah, I don't think you read the posts at all from this thread in regards to the DI bit, Alan.
Alan has made it clear he thinks having some control over the dice is possible.
I respect his opinion and he has played for some time.
I have tried without success
to show some on this board that the thrower does have some influence on the dice,
however that was a waste of time. At the same time I tried to explain
why "dice control" was not possible, that attempt also failed.
So having failed completely here, we had nothing left to do but just play.
Summer results....... on favorite tables..... 21 winning sessions and 6 losing sessions.
Influence, not control.
dicesetter
Quote: dicesitterExoter175
Summer results....... on favorite tables..... 21 winning sessions and 6 losing sessions.
Influence, not control.
dicesetter
Winning session average win? Losing session average win? Total average win (or loss) per session? Average length of session?
I have way more winning sessions at Paige's than losing ones. If I'm up after a while I might play until I'm up $5 then quit. So I may have half my sessions up $5. One minus $400 overrides my many little wins.
Sorry, I have learned my lesson here, state the facts as you know them to be and don't try to explain
to those that are looking for a puppy to train.
It was a very nice summer.
dicesetter
Welcome back.Quote: dicesitterSOOPOO
Sorry, I have learned my lesson here, state the facts as you know them to be and don't try to explain
to those that are looking for a puppy to train.
It was a very nice summer.
dicesetter
Quote: Exoter175Yeah, I don't think you read the posts at all from this thread in regards to the DI bit, Alan.
Happens far too often.
Quote: RSHappens far too often.
I'm setting the conditions. If Exoter wants me to believe he is a DI he's going to have to meet up and show me he can win money.
In return I will post here that Exoter won money. After all he made the claim so doesn't he want the valudation?
He doesn't want his ID made public and I will agree to that. I have a professional reputation at stake so my promise is probably better than anyone else's.
Frankly I've played with most of the DI crowd and I wasn't impressed with any of them. I've only witnessed three who I consider to be true. Maybe Exoter will be the fourth.
If he wants validation I'll do it. If he doesn't why did he come here about a month ago?
Quote: AlanMendelsonI'm setting the conditions. If Exoter wants me to believe he is a DI he's going to have to meet up and show me he can win money.
In return I will post here that Exoter won money. After all he made the claim so doesn't he want the valudation?
He doesn't want his ID made public and I will agree to that. I have a professional reputation at stake so my promise is probably better than anyone else's.
Frankly I've played with most of the DI crowd and I wasn't impressed with any of them. I've only witnessed three who I consider to be true. Maybe Exoter will be the fourth.
If he wants validation I'll do it. If he doesn't why did he come here about a month ago?
But if DI is like Card Counting in that you only influence an edge in your favor, that is you cannot guarantee a win each and every time then isn't that exercise as fruitless as asking KJ to demonstrate card counting and you'll believe he's successful only if he wins?
I don't think Exoter came here just for validation. Maybe I'm wrong. It may seem I'm on here for those reasons many times but honestly I like the banter, discussion and sometimes adding meaningful thoughts to the forum, even some that have nothing to do with gambling. Exoter may just want to banter with kindred spirits.
The shooter has the dice and only he controls the outcome. There is no shuffle by a dealer. There is no RNG. If the DI claims to be a DI then he alone -- without interference of a shuffle or an RNG -- will influence the end result of the throw.
Frankly, I am getting alarmed at what is going on here.
We have a new member who says he is a DI and makes money at it, and says his time is valuable, and asks for compensation. Yet, he gives us no name -- he's anonymous as most are on this forum. But what's next, asking for "show up money" or compensation in advance?
Yet, he won't communicate even a cell phone number to set up a meeting?
He gives a date range for being in Vegas, but if anyone were to be in town how would we know who he is or where to find him?
If I were going to set up a con, and demand money in advance (compensation for my valuable time) I would certainly target a gaming forum where there are gamblers who take chances all the time.
Sorry Exoter -- you talk a lot. Want to show your stuff?
While I believe in the possibility of DI I readily challenge those who make claims that aren't proved. I've seen too many DIs who really influence the dice only to the point that they stay on the table.
No but it's fairly easy to spot when a guys dice are jumping all around the table and there's very little consistency.Quote: darkozBut if DI is like Card Counting in that you only influence an edge in your favor, that is you cannot guarantee a win each and every time then isn't that exercise as fruitless as asking KJ to demonstrate card counting and you'll believe he's successful only if he wins?
I don't think Exoter came here just for validation. Maybe I'm wrong. It may seem I'm on here for those reasons many times but honestly I like the banter, discussion and sometimes adding meaningful thoughts to the forum, even some that have nothing to do with gambling. Exoter may just want to banter with kindred spirits.
If he's demonstrating something that looks close to having some influence I'm sure AM would want to do some further investigation.
I was impressed with dicesitters video due to the consistency and less bouncing around than most DI shots.
I still think it's impossible
-----------------------------------------------
I'm betting the no this doesn't happen.
Quote: AxelWolf
I was impressed with dicesitters video due to the consistency and less bouncing around than most DI shots.
I still have not seen this video. I don't know how I missed it. Would someone provide a link or what thread and what post number please?
You won't be impressed. It's not as good as you described the Washingtonian.Quote: AlanMendelsonI still have not seen this video. I don't know how I missed it. Would someone provide a link or what thread and what post number please?
Send him a PM I'm sure he can provide you with a link I couldn't find it agian.
Quote: Exoter175If the value of my time was taken care of, and the security of my identity taken care of, I'd have zero issues being the guinea pig in such an experiment, but you have to consider the risk here as well for such a thing to be "proven". If I need to spell them out to you, please ask and I'll explain the laundry list for you.
sure, i know the risks...risk is but one more reason replicable evidence will never <sic> be forthcoming...but i stand by my main contention that it is no one's vested interest to "prove" DI efficacy as the primary reason you will never see it...
notwithstanding i would, yes, be interested in seeing your list...
tom "home runs are sometimes boring" p
"statements with 'always' or 'never' in them are almost always inaccurate and almost never true"...tom p, 1963
