Newbie with a question about odds

Ive been lurking, reading, doing a bit of research here and there. My question is about the "free odds bet".

A little background about me I started gambling for the first time in 2012. I was at Mardis Gras selling beads, stunguns and I had made my quota for the week. I took $20 to Harrahs and within 2 spins on the Lord of the Rings machine I hit for about $180. I took the winnings and bailed. The next day not knowing anything about blackjack and expecting to win something I found an empty $15 table and went on to lose $150 flat betting. Not a single hand was a winner. With that being said no more blackjack for me.

Fast forward through roulette, and bacarrat and we have arrived at craps with an overall lifetime gambling loss of maybe 4grand. I have picked a strategy that has worked fairly well the 2x Ive tried.

Since I am a low roller as you can probably gather Ive never really given the odds bet any thought. So my question is if I layed the 6 for 24 with the $1 vig, does "free odds" mean that I can lay $600 odds for free and be paid $500 if the bet wins?

Or does free odds only apply to pass or dont pass. Thanks in advance!

Free odds applies to pass-line odds bet (behind the PL), don't-pass line odds (the "lay" bet beside a don't-pass), the odds on a come bet and odds on a don't-come bet. You can also do a straight up "lay" bet, which requires a vig (up to 5% of the win). With a don't-pass or don't-come bet, there is no vig.

So if you want to lay the 6 or 8 for $600, it will pay $500. But you'll also have to put up a 5% vig on the $500 pay, so a $25 vig. Some casinos you pay the vig upfront -- so you'd throw down $625 and say "lay the 8 for $600". Other casinos you pay the vig after (and only if) your bet wins -- so you put down $600 to lay the 8. If it wins, they'll either pay you $500 and ask you for $25 vig...or they'll just pay you $475 -- effectively the same thing.

The 'free' odds are indeed free, but are tied to the passline bet [or the don't] ... so they are free as a separate bet but not as a combined bet. The bet is dependent on what point was rolled, if it was the 8 then that is your only option.

The "free" odds bet is backing up your Pass (or Don't Pass) line bet that the Point will (or won't) be rolled before a 7. It is sometimes referred to as "free" odds because it is the only bet on the craps table (or even in the casino) that has no house edge. "The reason there's no house edge on the Free Odds bet is that winning bets are paid at true odds. If there's a 2-to-1 chance of your winning the bet, then a winning bet is also paid 2-to-1. The way the casino makes its profit on all other bets in the casino is by paying less than true odds." http://www.nextshooter.com/odds

Rather than paying the vig for Lay bets, I would rather play the Don't Pass and Don't Come, backed up with full odds. At a table with standard 3-4-5x Pass odds, you can bet 6x Don't Pass and Don't Come Odds. For example, if you want to bet around $600 against the 6 & 8, you could make an $85 Don't Pass and/or Don't Come bet and lay $510 Odds when a 6 or 8 is rolled. If it wins, the Don't Pass bet pays 1:1 - $85 and the Odds pays 5:6 - $425. You risked $595 and won $510.

If you really want to bet Don't Pass & Don't Come with Odds only against certain numbers, you have the option to call out "no action" for your Don't Come bet whenever an unwanted number rolls. Therefore, with this strategy, you would forgo the Don't Pass bet and then make a Don't Come bet once a Point is established. When your desired number rolls, allow the dealer to move the bet behind the number and lay the odds, otherwise call "no action". However, as there are more ways to roll a 7 than any other number, you also forgo your advantage by calling "no action". (Note that you cannot call "no action" on Pass, Come, or Don't Pass bets.)
http://www.crapspit.org/craps-bets/dont-come-bet/

Quote: BlueEagle

... Note that you cannot call "no action" on Pass, Come, or Don't Pass bets.)
http://www.crapspit.org/craps-bets/dont-come-bet/

while certainly accurate with respect to the Pass and Come bets, this is not accurate at some places, including my local joint where they do allow you to remove a Dont Pass bet (why wouldn't they?)...if you are the shooter however you must move it (or whatever the minimum bet or more is) to the pass line if you wish to continue shooting...as you have pointed out, removing or calling "no action" on any Dont bet once a number is established is not a smart idea...in fact you have such an advantage at that point that making a place bet on the number may be able to guarantee either a break-even or a (very) small win (the local joint pays $11 onna $10 6/8 Place bet for example), should you be such a timid gambler...

tom "home runs are sometimes boring" p

Quote: betwthelines

Quote: BlueEagle

... Note that you cannot call "no action" on Pass, Come, or Don't Pass bets.)

while certainly accurate with respect to the Pass and Come bets, this is not accurate at some places, including my local joint where they do allow you to remove a Dont Pass bet (why wouldn't they?)...if you are the shooter however you must move it (or whatever the minimum bet or more is) to the pass line if you wish to continue shooting

So if I make a Don't Pass bet and roll a 6, I could then move my Don't Pass bet to the Pass line? If that's true, I would guess this transfer happens frequently when the Don't shooter rolls a 6 or 8. What happens if I want to remove the Don't Come bet but don't want to move it to Pass? I'm guessing I'd be forfeiting my turn and the option goes to the next shooter, but what happens to the point and other player's Line/Place bets?

Quote: BlueEagle

However, as there are more ways to roll a 7 than any other number, you also forgo your advantage by calling "no action".

You see so many people do that too. It's remarkable. What it is, then, is that they feel they might be unlucky and lose the bet even knowing the odds are on their side [no matter how stupid otherwise, nearly everybody seems to know this].

So, personally I marvel that anyone who feels unlucky would ever even walk inside a casino. Why?

Quote: odiousgambit

You see so many people do that too. It's remarkable.

yep
craps players are people too (some even have feelings)

they know the "feeling" of losing a bet and the don't 6&8 lose quite often
way way more often than the other point numbers.

as an example:
over 990 such bets
the 4,10 lose only, on average, 330 times
the 6,8 lose 450 times
a HUGH % difference

don't players notice this and react the way that makes them feel better

of course, making sucker bets like the don'ts taste better at first and that leads to feeling better too.
proof there is value in making sucker bets
Sally

BIG Angel game tonight
7:05pm
7.5 OVER
be there!

Quote: BlueEagle

So if I make a Don't Pass bet and roll a 6, I could then move my Don't Pass bet to the Pass line?

correct.

Quote: BlueEagle

If that's true, I would guess this transfer happens frequently when the Don't shooter rolls a 6 or 8.

not really...well, first of all nothing like that happens "frequently" because the scenario itself is extremely rare and i am pretty sure i have only seen it once where a shooter has moved his dont pass to the pass...the point may have been 6 or 8 but i dont remember...

Quote: BlueEagle

What happens if I want to remove the Don't Come bet but don't want to move it to Pass? I'm guessing I'd be forfeiting my turn and the option goes to the next shooter, but what happens to the point and other player's Line/Place bets?

your question is confusing...Dont Come bets are irrelevant with regard to whether you are shooting or not so you would "forfeit" nothing with regard to your shooting status...in this case the Dont Come bet simply comes "down" or, yes, you can move it or add it to your pass bet...nothing happens to the other bets and, as always, the shooter (is it you?) has the option to pass the dice or not...indeed if you are the shooter with a Dont Pass bet and opt to pass the dice, you can remove your DP bet and have no bet at all with no consequences...

Quote: betwthelines

your question is confusing...Dont Come bets are irrelevant with regard to whether you are shooting or not

My error. I meant to ask what happens to the point and other bets if the shooter wants to remove their Don't Pass bet after establishing a point.

It makes sense that the casino would gladly allow a player to give up their edge by removing their Don't Pass bet after a point is established.

Quote: BlueEagle

My error. I meant to ask what happens to the point and other bets if the shooter wants to remove their Don't Pass bet after establishing a point.

It makes sense that the casino would gladly allow a player to give up their edge by removing their Don't Pass bet after a point is established.

in most places, virtually all actually, yes, the shooter is allowed to remove his Don't Pass bet (as you surmise, why wouldn't they let you?!)...however if the shooter wishes to continue shooting, he must then make a Pass Bet equal to or greater than the table minimum...of course the option is open to pass the dice too and walk away or whatever...as for the "other bets" those would be unaffected but, with the exception of Come bets with established points, those could also be brought down if one wished...

tom "home runs are sometimes boring" p

Funniest thing I saw (well, not FUNNIEST, but it was pretty funny).

* Shooter shooting from the DP, empty game. Boss frustrated this guy wants to play on his own table making everyone work [for this flea] *

Boss: "Shooter, hit the back wall"

Shooter keeps shooting....misses the back wall infrequently.

Boss: "Shooter! Hit the back wall!!"

Shooter continues shooting. Misses once again.

Boss: "Alright you're done! You can pick up your bet n play on another table if you want, but you're not shooting anymore."

Shooter: "I'll just stay here...so I guess we're gonna wait for someone else to come by and shoot with my established point?"

* Shooter looks around....casino is empty *

Shooter: "This might take awhile. It's a'ight, I got time."

Quote: betwthelines

in most places, virtually all actually, yes, the shooter is allowed to remove his Don't Pass bet (as you surmise, why wouldn't they let you?!)...however if the shooter wishes to continue shooting, he must then make a Pass Bet equal to or greater than the table minimum...of course the option is open to pass the dice too and walk away or whatever...as for the "other bets" those would be unaffected but, with the exception of Come bets with established points, those could also be brought down if one wished...

Let me ask this another way. Suppose the shooter with a Don't Pass bet establishes a point on 6. Other players at the table then place Odds on their Pass bet as well as make Place bets on the 8. The shooter decides to remove his Don't Pass bet but does not want to make a Pass bet. Therefore, he cannot continue shooting, so the dice pass to the next shooter. What happens to the other player's Pass Line bets with Odds and the Place bets on the 8? Does the next shooter continue with the established point instead of his own come out roll?

Quote: RS

Funniest thing I saw (well, not FUNNIEST, but it was pretty funny).

The indication that you saw this but there was nobody around other than the shooter leads me to believe that you are referring to yourself in third person. ;-)

Quote: BlueEagle

Let me ask this another way. Suppose the shooter with a Don't Pass bet establishes a point on 6. Other players at the table then place Odds on their Pass bet as well as make Place bets on the 8. The shooter decides to remove his Don't Pass bet but does not want to make a Pass bet. Therefore, he cannot continue shooting, so the dice pass to the next shooter. What happens to the other player's Pass Line bets with Odds and the Place bets on the 8? Does the next shooter continue with the established point instead of his own come out roll?

JMO, the original shooter in this hypothetical situation entered into a contract with the house, when he put money on a pass bet and picked up the dice.

The house doesn't "have" to let you take down a don't bet, they just do [due] when it is to their advantage. In this situ, it matters how large the bets are. Not unlike who has the biggest ship in the channel or biggest rig on the road.

It doesn't really matter what it seems to say in print. What size action are we speculatin on?



The indication that you saw this but there was nobody around other than the shooter leads me to believe that you are referring to yourself in third person. ;-)

Quote: BlueEagle

Let me ask this another way. Suppose the shooter with a Don't Pass bet establishes a point on 6. Other players at the table then place Odds on their Pass bet as well as make Place bets on the 8. The shooter decides to remove his Don't Pass bet but does not want to make a Pass bet. Therefore, he cannot continue shooting, so the dice pass to the next shooter. What happens to the other player's Pass Line bets with Odds and the Place bets on the 8? Does the next shooter continue with the established point instead of his own come out roll?

nothing happens to those other bets, although some, as is always the case, for example, the Place bets & Odds bets could be taken down (a superstition based move seen occasionally in this scenario)...the new shooter to whom the dice have just been passed simply "continues" the roll of the first shooter...there is not a new come out roll until the new shooter either makes the 6 or 7s out...BTW Don't shooters passing the dice is not all that uncommon, perhaps partially explaining why your questions arose in the first place...hope this helps.

tom "home runs are sometimes boring" p

Also, the shooter has the option to continue shooting from behind the 6 but reducing the bet size to the table minimum. It can be reduced to the minimum if he decides it needs to move to the PL, too.