Casino whistle blower gets fired over bad dice!

Casino whistle blower gets fired over bad dice!

This made the Sunday newspaper today in Ohio ... The HorseShoe is managed by Caesar's .... Why were these bad dice even allowed on casino property or in casino inventory which is a felony in most states -- Casino Dice WhistleBlower Fired!

This story is by Dan Horn

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/08/07/workers-say-casino-cheated-pay/31295401/

While this article may not interest all of us craps players the below quote will.

Quote:

Huddy, who has worked as a dealer and supervisor in Indiana, Maine and Pennsylvania, started at the casino in February 2013 and has made several complaints about Horseshoe’s operations.

He said he was suspended with pay in July 2014 after telling state investigators he saw a casino employee use dice that did not meet state specifications. Casinos check dice with a micrometer, which measures small distances and thickness, to ensure uniformity. Dice that are too large or small are not permitted for use.

While Huddy said the dice were used in a craps game, investigators from the Ohio Casino Control Commission said they could not find the dice and could not verify Huddy’s story with other employees.

They did, however, find many sets of dice that did not meet specifications. They do not believe those dice ever were used in a game.

While all of you guys laugh there has been one other case against the casino there with bad dice on the table, but the gaming didn't do anything about it. See this thread:

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/22507-gaming-commission-comedy-of-errors/

Quote:

Testing of the dice began at the table, on the table felt around 8:55 hours. Via XXXX XXXX's statement and surveillance footage, the dice that were in play at the time were taken off the table due to faults (the Casino Boxman determined that all these sticks of dice were unbalanced by using the caliper). Two more sleeves of die (dice) were also tested by the Boxman and both of those, as well were deemed to have faults (determined that all these sticks of dice were unbalanced by properly using the balancing caliper) and were taken out of the game.

So the boxman says that the dice were out of balance and gaming was called! But gaming did nothing about the dice being out of balance.

Quote:

As related above, the Casino did find the disputed dice to be out-of-balance, as well as two new sleeves of dice, therefore I recommend this case be Closed, Transferred to Regulatory Compliance.

So the guy that filed the case was told to take it up with the casino.

Even though they have rules about how the dice should be made, gaming just doesn't care about the patrons of their casinos?

So now you have the above story that is breaking that the casinos are using bad dice and a guy got fired over blowing the whistle on them! Maybe that answers all the questions as to why nobody has ever came forward that worked for the casinos with the bad, cheap dice that they are using?

It will be very interesting to see where this new case goes if the newspaper follows up on the story!

We know of one other complaint that was filed against the Ohio casino for using bad or cheap dice if that is what you want to call them.

So now you have a newspaper story and the paperwork about bad dice in the casinos! Do you still think that gaming boards are there to protect the players or the casinos?

Now here is the one question I have for all of you guys that say a casino would never use bad dice. What were those bad dice even doing in a casino if they weren't going to use them? My case should be put to rest on that question! You don't have something that is illegal to use in your casino if it can cost you a fine if your not going to use it!

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz



ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz



ZCore13

Just what I expected out of you ZCore



How else would a good casino employee respond!

Regarding the "new case" there was no allegation that the dice were out of balance.

The article says "the dice did not meet state specifications for size and weight."

There's a big difference between out of balance dice and dice that were not those specified for size and weight.

Quote: superrick

Just what I expected out of you ZCore



How else would a good casino employee respond!

That's because it's the same old nonsense and misinformation from you all the time. You have an agenda. I do not. Facts are facts. That's what I go by. You never have any.

You state that a casino had dice that did not meet specification and were not using them. No proof they were ever used. You criticize that. I say that's exactly what is supposed to happen. I have a stock of old/bad cards, bad shoes, bad chips, old layouts, etc. It's very rare something gets thrown out. Way less paperwork and permissions to just not use something than discard it.

Then you quote that a bunch of dice were not balanced at another casino. They were tested by caliper and not used. Again, exactly what is supposed to happen.

Just because an incident happens somewhere does not mean that is the norm. If for some reason a set of dice that was off balance made it onto a table, that does not mean anything was done on purpose or that it happens everywhere or that it would even make a difference in the game.

Dealers make mistakes every day. That doesn't mean they do it on purpose. It doesn't mean every dealer makes mistakes every day. And it doesn't mean the casino is cheating if one makes a mistake in the house favor.

You really need to find another hobby.



ZCore13

I am not saying this is the case here but one reason to have a quantity of dice that don't pass muster is when you have a shipping deal with the manufacturer to not ship back faulty dice until you have a certain minimum quantity. Do not know if that is the reason in this situation, but it is a possibility.

Quote: Zcore13

You have an agenda. I do not. Facts are facts. That's what I go by. You never have any.

I am still seeing quotes from people that I have blocked.

FIX IT!

Quote: Ahigh

I am still seeing quotes from people that I have blocked.

FIX IT!

FIX IT!

Quote: waasnoday

I am not saying this is the case here but one reason to have a quantity of dice that don't pass muster is when you have a shipping deal with the manufacturer to not ship back faulty dice until you have a certain minimum quantity. Do not know if that is the reason in this situation, but it is a possibility.

It's an easy fix for you. Click block this member then pretend it worked and then IGNORE them.

If there was evidence of bad dice being put in play, it would be news. Thing is, as has been discussed time and again, would the bad dice be biased towards the casino or the player? The casinos don't want bad dice in play because they don't want to get in trouble and because the bad dice might change the outcome of the game. Changing the outcome of the game, save a few who might cheat anywhere in life, is not a desired outcome--they just want their steady HA off of every roll.

Steve Wynn raised the cost of his game by going to 2x odds. He set a bar against lowering the edge too low. He doesn't need bad dice or anything; he just needs the edge to play out and he hopes to make more money. That is an unknown because no one knows how quickly it will spread or if players will leave. The point isn't what will happen there, it is that he raised his potential edge without cheating in any way.

As to blocking quotes, who the heck cares? Just avoid the person you don't like, don't interact with them and go from there. Don't let it drive you crazy...there is too much other crap in the world to do that!!

I am still seeing quotes from people who got it wrong.

FIX THEM!

Quote: AlanMendelson

Regarding the "new case" there was no allegation that the dice were out of balance

The article says "the dice did not meet state specifications for size and weight."

There's a big difference between out of balance dice and dice that were not those specified for size and weight.

AlanMendelson, could you please explain to your audience what part of the Ohio state specifications dealing with "weight" effect anything other than balance.

Quote: Ohio Administrative Code 3772-11-20 Dice specifications.(A)

(6) Have its weight equally distributed throughout the cube, with no side of the cube heavier or lighter than any other side of the cube;

(8) Each spot shall be placed on the die by drilling into the surface of the cube and filling the drilled-out portion with a compound that is equal in weight to the weight of the cellulose drilled out and that forms a permanent bond with the cellulose cube.

SMH

Quote: AlanMendelson

I am still seeing quotes from people who got it wrong.

FIX THEM!

Quote: AxelWolf

It's an easy fix for you. Click block this member then pretend it worked and then IGNORE them.

Umm.. why am I being quoted?

Quote: Bohemian

Quote: AlanMendelson

Regarding the "new case" there was no allegation that the dice were out of balance

The article says "the dice did not meet state specifications for size and weight."

There's a big difference between out of balance dice and dice that were not those specified for size and weight.

AlanMendelson, could you please explain to your audience what part of the Ohio state specifications dealing with "weight" effect anything other than balance.

Not "weight" -- "size and weight".

A perfectly-balanced pair of 19mm dice would not "meet state specifications for size and weight" in Ohio, even though such dice are available from manufacturers and are perfectly legal for craps in Nevada. 19mm is 0.748 inches and the Ohio minimum is 0.750.

http://www.midwestgamesupply.com/dice.htm

The article didn't disclose the nature of the failure to meet specifications. The closest it got was talking about checking size with a micrometer:

Quote:

Casinos check dice with a micrometer, which measures small distances and thickness, to ensure uniformity. Dice that are too large or small are not permitted for use.

While Huddy said the dice were used in a craps game, investigators from the Ohio Casino Control Commission said they could not find the dice and could not verify Huddy’s story with other employees.

They did, however, find many sets of dice that did not meet specifications. They do not believe those dice ever were used in a game.

It would be most reasonable to read that as "the OCCC also tested dice with a micrometer and found many sets that didn't conform." But you immediately jumped to the conclusion that the dice must be biased because that's what you do -- look for biased-dice conspiracies. Keep looking, I'm sure you'll find one someday. Just not today.

Bohemian the original article said nothing about any side being heavier.

The dice could have been larger and equally heavier on all sides.

Before jumping to conclusions how about getting some more vital information?

Casinos should just use yahtzee style dice and a hard countertop surface. That should eliminate a lot of issues.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Casinos should just use yahtzee style dice and a hard countertop surface. That should eliminate a lot of issues.

The only issue is on forums like this with conspiracy members like some we have. In the Casino and in the back of the house there is no talk about any of the dice topics that go on here. They have internal controls to protect the game and the integrity of it and they follow them.


ZCore13

Quote: MathExtremist

"size and weight".
<snip>
But you immediately jumped <snip>

hahaha
no can do

but there is Jump!



this band is very loud in concert

and NO WAY Wolfie is the product of Valerie and Eddie
talking about size and weight

I immediately jumped, yes sir

ok
maybe they (V loves E) just fed him well and often!
what a nice looking son
Sally

Math



Are you saying there are no bad dice in play today, that every set of dice used at every casino
is in perfect balance ????

Or are you saying a casino would never use bad dice on purpose ?


Or are you saying even if they were bad from time to time it really makes no
difference?

I wonder because of what you just said "But you immediately jumped to the conclusion that the dice must be biased because that's what you do -- look for biased-dice conspiracies. Keep looking, I'm sure you'll find one someday. Just not today."


It would seem to me if you automatically discount every discussion regarding this you are showing your
own bias.

dicesetter

Quote: dicesitter

Math

Are you saying there are no bad dice in play today, that every set of dice used at every casino
is in perfect balance ????

Or are you saying a casino would never use bad dice on purpose ?

Or are you saying even if they were bad from time to time it really makes no
difference?

I wonder because of what you just said "But you immediately jumped to the conclusion that the dice must be biased because that's what you do -- look for biased-dice conspiracies. Keep looking, I'm sure you'll find one someday. Just not today."

It would seem to me if you automatically discount every discussion regarding this you are showing your own bias.

dicesetter

dicesetter, well said!

I spoke to Harley today which keeps well informed of these issues and he told me that according to the law firm that represents Huddy, he was a salaried Floor Supervisor not just a minimum wage dealer and that the 2nd unbalanced dice incident occurred in a separate calendar year than the 1st case.

Quote: Bohemian

I spoke to Harley today...

Waitaminit....You're not Harley?

Quote: Calder

Waitaminit....You're not Harley?

LOL! Now that's funny! Post of the week!

But in all seriousness, I do believe they are all their own people. They just have to plug ito a charging station at home at night because they share the same networked brain.


ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

But in all seriousness, I do believe they are all their own people. They just have to plug ito a charging station at home at night because they share the same networked brain.


ZCore13

ZCore, I have a question for you, if you happened to have craps where you work, which by the way you don't, would you report that you knew that the casinos was using unbalanced dice, if that was really true?

Quote: superrick

ZCore, I have a question for you, if you happened to have craps where you work, which by the way you don't, would you report that you knew that the casinos was using unbalanced dice, if that was really true?

Of course I would. We would have procedured to verify, remove and report. The casino does not want unbalanced dice on the table.

Same as we do with a marked card. It gets removed from play and given to an inspector with information about the table it was in, who the dealer was and any other needed info.


ZCore13

Quote: dicesitter

Are you saying there are no bad dice in play today, that every set of dice used at every casino
is in perfect balance ????

Or are you saying a casino would never use bad dice on purpose ?


Or are you saying even if they were bad from time to time it really makes no
difference?

No, what I'm saying is that Bohemian's reading comprehension needs work. He read an article about casinos testing dice with micrometers and concluded that they were unbalanced. That's just bad logic. Micrometers are used to test size, not balance. The most likely thing that happened was the dice in Ohio were slightly too small, like 18mm. They'd still be fair, just undersized per the regulations.

But to your question, yes, I believe that if dice were slightly unbalanced every once in a while it would absolutely not matter. It's worth remembering that Nevada has no requirements on dice at all. It's legal to play craps in Nevada with Monopoly dice. And if you did, you'd never be able to statistically distinguish the results from a game using precision dice. Go ahead and try for yourself.

If the dice in an Ohio casino are undersized, chances are someone just ordered the wrong SKU from a catalog, not thinking about the precise requirements in Ohio vs. elsewhere. Bohemian's gut reaction is to immediately jump to "it's a conspiracy!" but that's very unlikely.

Quote: Goethe

Misunderstandings and neglect create more confusion in this world than trickery and malice. At any rate, the last two are certainly much less frequent.

Quote: Goethe

Misunderstandings and neglect create more confusion in this world than trickery and malice. At any rate, the last two are certainly much less frequent.

The first two are what they call it after they're caught. At any rate, the damage is the same.

In this day and age of the corporate run casinos and all of their pencil pushers that are nothing more than paper hangers, that hang that degree on the wall and then do some of the stupidest things that any casino can do. Why is it that craps players can't grasp the fact that casinos are using nothing but cheap dice in some of them that are out of balance and figure out what that would do to the outcome of the game!

Are all craps players that gullible where they believe everything that these on axis craps boards put out about the so-called bad dice that are now out there in play?

You have to remember when this was first brought up the guys that were telling everybody about them only was saying that the dice were out of balance. Those on-axis craps schools were the ones that started saying that the dice were loaded, which by the way they are not!

Players have to use some good old common sense if that is really possible in this day and age! Why would anybody listen to an on-axis craps school that makes their money off of teaching their students to become so-called DI's. If there were these bad dice on the tables they couldn't sell their BS to their students!

When anybody brings up the bad dice there are always going to be individuals that will say there is no way only because of their heroes, that run some DI school has told them so, but what do you expect, they are so used to reading fiction you could tell them anything!

Back in the 30's it was legal to sell all kinds of what they called novelty dice. This dice could have bee anything from loaded to miss spots ,but there were a lot of other dice that they used to cheat, you had passers, miss outs, tappers, concaved, transparent flush spot loads, electric dice, shapes, flats, bevels, suction dice, capped dice, slick dice, trip dice, razor edge, rollers, percentage, tops and bottoms and I'm sure some other ones that I never heard of.

A good book that everyone should have is Scarne on dice he explains the different type of dice they used for cheating.

Now the funny thing is that you can still buy loaded dice! Take one guess where at without going on the internet trying to find out where. It might shock you when you find out where you can buy them!

Man always finds a way to cheat, we are lazy and want to win at any cost. The funny thing about craps players is they will believe anything a so-called expert tells them.


http://www.walmart.com/search/?query=Loaded Dice&adid=22222222220206359745&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=e&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=21615335567&wl4=kwd-4939396245&wl5=1022635&veh=sem

https://www.google.com/search?q=loaded#q=loaded+dice+for+sale

Quote: superrick

http://www.walmart.com/search/?query=Loaded Dice&adid=22222222220206359745&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=e&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=21615335567&wl4=kwd-4939396245&wl5=1022635&veh=sem

https://www.google.com/search?q=loaded dice for sale&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Got link stink? It's called "tiny url" buddy.

http://tinyurl.com/walmart-loaded-dice
http://tinyurl.com/googe-search-loaded-dice
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Stink+Link

Quote: Ahigh

Got link stink? It's called "tiny url" buddy.

http://tinyurl.com/walmart-loaded-dice
http://tinyurl.com/googe-search-loaded-dice
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Stink+Link

Don't know how to embed the link into text? It's called html pal.

Walmart Loaded Dice


ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

Don't know how to embed the link into text? It's called html pal.

Walmart Loaded Dice


ZCore13

I know how. But that's more complicated. Especially on sites like this that don't even use standard phpBB tags, they invent their own.

I'll tell you what, though, if you get the subject, SuperRick, to tell me that your way is easier, I'll tell you that you had a better solution than I did to his problem.

I think you're just trying to make trouble is what I think.

I was genuinely trying to help someone. SuperRick knows me well enough, he knows I'm just jabbing him in a friendly way (I think!)

The closest I can imagine you coming to feeling any sort of altruism would be if it improved your image to the community. Like maybe being a scout leader or something that a pedophile might consider doing to make it look like he has a reason to be around kids.

Someone told me that I have met you before and you didn't tell me who you were.

I don't know, bud, but I don't have much respect for you.

Maybe you deserve it, but I doubt it.

No JOKE. I really dislike you, Cagan. Next time you see me why not be honest enough to tell me what your name is when I ask you, "what's your name," huh? What'dya say?

Quote: Ahigh

Quote: Zcore13

Don't know how to embed the link into text? It's called html pal.

Walmart Loaded Dice


ZCore13

I know how. But that's more complicated. Especially on sites like this that don't even use standard phpBB tags, they invent their own.

I'll tell you what, though, if you get the subject, SuperRick, to tell me that your way is easier, I'll tell you that you had a better solution than I did to his problem.

I think you're just trying to make trouble is what I think.

I was genuinely trying to help someone. SuperRick knows me well enough, he knows I'm just jabbing him in a friendly way (I think!)

The closest I can imagine you coming to feeling any sort of altruism would be if it improved your image to the community. Like maybe being a scout leader or something that a pedophile might consider doing to make it look like he has a reason to be around kids.

Someone told me that I have met you before and you didn't tell me who you were.

I don't know, bud, but I don't have much respect for you.

Maybe you deserve it, but I doubt it.

No JOKE. I really dislike you, Cagan. Next time you see me why not be honest enough to tell me what your name is when I ask you, "what's your name," huh? What'dya say?

Even though you should be suspended once again. I like you. You make me laugh.


ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

Even though you should be suspended once again. I like you. You make me laugh.

That's because you like manipulating people for your own purposes, buddy. If you were an honest person, you'd address the point: we met and you failed to answer my questions, like "what's your name" and "why don't you stay here and play a while with me?"

If you didn't like manipulating people, we would have BOTH known I knew your name when I asked you instead of your thinking you had deceived me.

For the readers who are unsure of the details, Zcore, approached me at an event that we were both invited to at Galaxy Gaming.

I was alone and playing a card game in their showroom area. I was talking with the dealer and asking questions about the game.

Zcore approached me, and sat down. I introduced myself and told him my name and he refused to tell me his name.

I don't REALLY know it was Zcore, but let's just say my estimate is that there is a 95% probability that it was him.

Maybe it wasn't him.

I had DiceSitter do this to me at the Silverton, too. Except that he eventually told me that it was him. It took about 30 minutes, but this has been more than a year ago and Zcore has had a year to tell me that he's entering into my real world and interacting with me anonymously.

I have received anonymous threats to my mail, and while I don't think it was Zcore, let me tell you that this sort of behavior is something that annoys me. I don't like people doing crap like this because it's sorta scary.

If I am wrong, and that wasn't you, Zcore, I apologize. But this long-standing thing where you attack me on this forum and suspensions are doled out is old and tired.

And you really should be ashamed of yourself if this was you as I think it is.

I just think it's sorta a low class thing to do.

But to be honest, when I looked into "who the hell is this guy who keeps annoying me" and I find out you work in a smoke-filled place and all that other detail, I felt bad about it. I did want you to stay and play and talk and get to know you.

But you didn't want that (again assuming it was you).

I don't really know what you want, but you keep addressing me in posts like you did here. And even though your post is hidden, it's like you have this fascination with trying to manipulate me into doing what you want me to do.

So if you achieved your goal, and I get suspended, my hat is off to you.

But also, if that happens, I will escalate this, FRIEND.

So stay tuned, I suppose, and let me know what you want, buddy.

If you want a full on televised deathmatch on TV, I might even give you that.

But man up! Please don't do this sort of thing you've been doing hiding in the shadows and poking and hoping for some reaction.

It's just childish. You really should be ashamed.

Address me like a man and tell me who you are.

Quote: Ahigh

For the readers who are unsure of the details, Jeff Cagan, aka Zcore, approached me at an event that we were both invited to at Galaxy Gaming.

I was alone and playing a card game in their showroom area. I was talking with the dealer and asking questions about the game.

Jeff Cagan approached me, and sat down. I introduced myself and told him my name and he refused to tell me his name.

I don't REALLY know it was Jeff, but let's just say my estimate is that there is a 95% probability that it was him.

Maybe it wasn't him.

I had DiceSitter do this to me at the Silverton, too. Except that he eventually told me that it was him. It took about 30 minutes, but this has been more than a year ago and Zcore has had a year to tell me that he's entering into my real world and interacting with me anonymously.

I have received anonymous threats to my mail, and while I don't think it was Jeff Cagan, let me tell you that this sort of behavior is something that annoys me. I don't like people doing crap like this because it's sorta scary.

If I am wrong, and that wasn't you, Jeff, I apologize. But this long-standing thing where you attack me on this forum and suspensions are doled out is old and tired.

And you really should be ashamed of yourself if this was you as I think it is.

I just think it's sorta a low class thing to do.

But to be honest, when I looked into "who the hell is this guy who keeps annoying me" and I find out you work in a smoke-filled place and all that other detail, I felt bad about it. I did want you to stay and play and talk and get to know you.

But you didn't want that (again assuming it was you).

I don't really know what you want, but you keep addressing me in posts like you did here. And even though your post is hidden, it's like you have this fascination with trying to manipulate me into doing what you want me to do.

So if you achieved your goal, and I get suspended, my hat is off to you.

But also, if that happens, I will escalate this, FRIEND.

So stay tuned, I suppose, and let me know what you want, buddy.

If you want a full on televised deathmatch on TV, I might even give you that.

But man up! Please don't do this sort of thing you've been doing hiding in the shadows and poking and hoping for some reaction.

It's just childish. You really should be ashamed.

Address me like a man and tell me who you are.

Something is wrong with you. I have never seen you in person in my life. I haven't sat next to you. And you've never asked me for my name. I have no reason to hide from you. Trust me.

ZCore13

PS (added a few minutes after above) I don't know your email address. I've never emailed you. I don't know or care where you live or work. Sad that you would accuse me of these ridiculous things.

Quote: Zcore13

Something is wrong with you. I have never seen you in person in my life.

I humbly apologize, then. Please accept my most sincere apologies.

Also, I do have you on block. So when I post something, just stop responding and quoting me minutes after I post.

It's hard to block you when you seem to go out of your way to get my attention as it seems to me that you do.

Quote: Zcore13

Quote: Ahigh

For the readers who are unsure of the details, Jeff Cagan, aka Zcore, approached me at an event that we were both invited to at Galaxy Gaming.

I was alone and playing a card game in their showroom area. I was talking with the dealer and asking questions about the game.

Jeff Cagan approached me, and sat down. I introduced myself and told him my name and he refused to tell me his name.

I don't REALLY know it was Jeff, but let's just say my estimate is that there is a 95% probability that it was him.

Maybe it wasn't him.

I had DiceSitter do this to me at the Silverton, too. Except that he eventually told me that it was him. It took about 30 minutes, but this has been more than a year ago and Zcore has had a year to tell me that he's entering into my real world and interacting with me anonymously.

I have received anonymous threats to my mail, and while I don't think it was Jeff Cagan, let me tell you that this sort of behavior is something that annoys me. I don't like people doing crap like this because it's sorta scary.

If I am wrong, and that wasn't you, Jeff, I apologize. But this long-standing thing where you attack me on this forum and suspensions are doled out is old and tired.

And you really should be ashamed of yourself if this was you as I think it is.

I just think it's sorta a low class thing to do.

But to be honest, when I looked into "who the hell is this guy who keeps annoying me" and I find out you work in a smoke-filled place and all that other detail, I felt bad about it. I did want you to stay and play and talk and get to know you.

But you didn't want that (again assuming it was you).

I don't really know what you want, but you keep addressing me in posts like you did here. And even though your post is hidden, it's like you have this fascination with trying to manipulate me into doing what you want me to do.

So if you achieved your goal, and I get suspended, my hat is off to you.

But also, if that happens, I will escalate this, FRIEND.

So stay tuned, I suppose, and let me know what you want, buddy.

If you want a full on televised deathmatch on TV, I might even give you that.

But man up! Please don't do this sort of thing you've been doing hiding in the shadows and poking and hoping for some reaction.

It's just childish. You really should be ashamed.

Address me like a man and tell me who you are.

Something is wrong with you. I have never seen you in person in my life. I haven't sat next to you. And you've never asked me for my name. I have no reason to hide from you. Trust me.

ZCore13

PS (added a few minutes after above) I don't know your email address. I've never emailed you. I don't know or care where you live or work. Sad that you would accuse me of these ridiculous things.

I just checked your linked-in page and now I know what you look like.

As far as your explanations now that I know what you look like, I'm going to back off. I have no interest or intent in doing harm to you. I just want you to STOP addressing me. That's ALL that I want.

If you can handle that, we're fine.

If not, I'm going to go 100% dealing with you and nothing else until this is taken care of and you know to leave me alone. 100% Not 99% not 90% but 100% leave me alone.

You need to stop talking to me about me or trying to affect the direction of my future. At least for the short term until I can sort things out and give you a proper apology for this in person. I do hope that I can find out who this was and apologize to you because I have been thinking for the last year that this was you. I haven't told anyone about this except for Stephen at work, and he has kept it private. And as I said, too, I wasn't 100% sure it was you, and I am sorry.

I'll probably find out who it was soon enough, I think. I will share who it was if and when I find out at least with Zcore so that he knows that I didn't just make this all up. Because now *I* am in the hot seat, LOL. And I don't blame Zcore if he believes that I did make this up.

Gentlemen! Gentlemen!

Quote: MrV

Gentlemen! Gentlemen!

Yes, let's do move on. :-)

Just to keep it interesting, on July 30th, 2015, I called gaming to inspect what I had reasonable evidence to believe were unfair dice in action at the Westgate casino.

Maybe that will help get this thread back on topic.

Quote: Ahigh

I just checked your linked-in page and now I know what you look like.

You just checked it NOW? You've been walking
around for a year steaming about this and you
never even verified if it was really who you thought
it was??

Unfreakingbelievable.

Quote: EvenBob

You just checked it NOW? You've been walking
around for a year steaming about this and you
never even verified if it was really who you thought
it was??

Unfreakingbelievable.

No. That is incorrect your suggestion. I have tried to find out what he looks like before and I was unable to do that.

Maybe you could do some more investigative work to find out that his photo was unavailable on the internet through linked-in previously and that now it is available before you hurl false accusations that I was not intelligent enough to try to find out what he looked like before now.

That's really rude, your message. Not that I expected anything pleasant from YOU.

I am also not accusing him of anything after seeing his photo.

It is reasonable to consider that the person that I talked to was someone else who generally conceals their identity. There are many reasons to conceal your identity, and if Jeff Cagan says he didn't meet me in public after I accuse him of doing that, then he didn't meet me and I am not accusing him of anything now, and I apologized (I really am sorry, Jeff).

I do expect that WHOEVER this person was, I will eventually find out. Because I described the scene as it occurred. It did occur, and it will get back to whoever this was.

It could have been someone in the industry who was familiar with me as someone who is on you tube talking about dice.

Like maybe an operator at a casino who wanted to meet me but didn't want to say "hey I'm the big man over at XYZ casino and I wanted to shake your hand without telling you who I am."

I don't know.

I routinely call attention to operators on this site for all sorts of things in the past. I have always wanted the casino gambling experience to be fair for the player, and I've been very interested in the potential for AP in craps (which for those who don't know, I believe is a farce, plain and simple). It could be some other operator who didn't want the risk of me knowing who they were and having me tell someone else that "joe blow from xyz casino shook my hand and said he knew who I was" if it was some really important casino operator like someone who was very high up at the Wynn, or another top operator who has some risk in people knowing who they are and talk about what they did or what they look like, etc.

Not EVERYONE is as brave as me (and Jeff) when it comes to talking on internet forums like this one and taking unnecessary risks.

But back off from this. I take Jeff at his word, and I apologize. I just want to stop the attacks is all. And that includes attacks from you like this one.

Also, this is rhetorical, but why if you have NOTHING to contribute to the TOPIC of this thread, do you post? You know other people read your posts, right? Are you TRYING to generate noise? Are you TRYING to create problems? I'm just curious. I haven't read your posts in years, but seriously WHY?!?!?!

The tangent created starting with Jeff's post and now your post are detrimental to the purpose of the forum in my view. We're supposed to stay on topic. Why not talk about what happened at the Westgate? If you would rather insult me than talk about something to get the thread back on topic, maybe you should ask yourself, "am I a valuable member of this forum who cares about the forum itself, or am I here for my own selfish reasons?"

Quote: Ahigh

WHY?!?!?!

Obviously I thought it odd that you would walk
around for a year thinking a person was someone
he was not, when it is easy to verify it. When did
I 'attack' you, you're not even here most of
the time. I do make critical comments on your
game, I don't understand why a casino would
want it. But that's just a criticism of a game, I
would do that with anybody. Ask Babs what I
said about her game. My comments have no
sway with anybody, a game either stands on it's
own merits or it doesn't. I'm old fashioned, the
only games I see in a casino are roulette, craps,
BJ and bac. Everything else is invisible to me.

Thank you for your concern about my intentions
in posting, though, that's very thoughtful of
you to be looking out for me.

Quote: EvenBob

Thank you for your concern about my intentions
in posting, though, that's very thoughtful of
you to be looking out for me.

I'm not thinking of you, to be precise. I'm thinking of everyone who reads what you write (or blocks you).

I just unblocked you and Zcore.

I would love this forum much MORE if I didn't have problems with you two.

But you and he are the only ones.

I do care about this forum. It's the best internet forum for gambling in the world.

I am interested to IMPROVE the PERCEPTION of gambling among people who do NOT CURRENTLY GAMBLE.

That's my primary goal right now more than ANYTHING.

This site comes up as a reference for pretty much anyone who discusses details (like math) for gambling on the internet.

It's a critical tool for many people.

You are the most frequent poster on this forum.

And I'm not sure what, besides that, your role is.

I ignored you. Maybe the mods could tell you how many people ignore you.

But it seems like that's what people do in order to make this site more digestable. They ignore you. At least that's what I did.

I'm just asking "WHY?"

Is it really just the post count?

Is it?

I never understood World of Warcraft when I worked with the guys who made that game we tried to make an MMO.

I *NEVER* understood MMOs. EVER.

I mean incrementing XP numbers from just putting in MASSIVE AMOUNTS of free time seemed like a waste of free time.

And I see similar lack of comprehension behind your involvement in this forum.

I would LIKE to think that the person with the highest post-count on this forum is someone who is very active in either gambling or making games or researching about the subject or doing SOME KIND OF REAL WORK to help make the site better.

I've been ignoring you for years.

But I never stepped back and thought, "WOW, that EvenBob really worked hard on that."

I just thought "post count incremented" -- and "vapid .... wow. where is the effort?"

BLOCK.

That was my thought process. And I mean that in the most HELPFUL way to tell you.

I would want to have people think, at LEAST, "this guy really is trying to understand, and he understood one or two things." I just don't know because I haven't read your posts in so long, but it's really thin on actual MATERIAL.

As great as this outlet seems to be, I really fail to see what advancements are being made on the current thread topic.

This tangent really is doing more harm than help, and it would probably be best for all parties involved if it were taken somewhere more appropriate.
Just some thoughts to consider.

Quote: Ahigh

Just to keep it interesting, on July 30th, 2015, I called gaming to inspect what I had reasonable evidence to believe were unfair dice in action at the Westgate casino.

Maybe that will help get this thread back on topic.

One truly interested in furthering the topic would mention the last post that WAS on topic.

At least that seems reasonable to me.

What led you to think the dice were "unfair?"

Did Gaming ever get back to you about it?

Quote: Ahigh

I just don't know because I haven't read your posts in so long, but it's really thin on actual MATERIAL.

I used to be the most prolific poster, but that
was years ago. Some days I don't post at all.
I've been posting on forums since 1992, the
thing you learn is to write for your own edification
only. If others like it fine, if they don't even finer.
As far as you're concerned, I never think about
you. You're a nobody to me, you never cross
my thoughts unless you're right in front of me,
like now. So you can imagine how much weight
your opinion of me carries. Is it possible for
something to weigh nothing? If it is, that's the
amount..

Quote: EvenBob

I used to be the most prolific poster, but that
was years ago. Some days I don't post at all.
I've been posting on forums since 1992, the
thing you learn is to write for your own edification
only. If others like it fine, if they don't even finer.
As far as you're concerned, I never think about
you. You're a nobody to me, you never cross
my thoughts unless you're right in front of me,
like now. So you can imagine how much weight
your opinion of me carries. Is it possible for
something to weigh nothing? If it is, that's the
amount..

You do think about me. Certainly not "never." So that is not true.

You state untruths consistently enough to be ignored.

You respond to my posts with things that are not perceived by me to be helpful to anyone on a high enough frequency for me to notice.

Maybe you believe them, but either believing untruths or stating them is a sort of red flag that tends to make me disengage with people.

Many gamblers cling to untruths to keep them gambling.

It's alright if you're the type.

I just don't want to argue with that type, personally. It's not very fruitful. You will choose beliefs based on convenience over fervor.

Carry on..(without me) you are going back on ignore.

Quote: MrV

What led you to think the dice were "unfair?"

Did Gaming ever get back to you about it?

It was a sequence:

#1) high occurrence of aces
#2) visual inspection of dice
#3) third base says, "they've been on the table for 5 days."
#4) closer visual inspection of the dice
#5) recorded a couple hundred samples and saw continued trend
#6) advised casino what I thought -- no concern whatsoever given to my comments (for dice that their own employees said were on the table for five days)

Gaming told me before they showed up that I won't be receiving ANY feedback as a result of the process.

The best feedback that I got was watching the boxman who I warned getting emotional and upset when he realized he was going to be answering some of the same questions I asked him earlier to someone he really didn't want to have to answer to (which was when he saw the guy with the badge show up).

I showed up because I had $100 free bet coupons each week in July and I didn't want to let the last one expire. I had already missed one of the four.

I earned these coupons mostly on Memorial Day. I played an average of about $400 or so for about 8 hours straight with no odds. The dealers were tired of me, and ultimately I was asked to leave as a result of a maternal insult joke I delivered to Brian. I think the joke was in response to his question, "does anyone want to HOP anything" on an empty table (that would have been empty all day for him if I hadn't been there -- he was at the end of his shift). He knew I wasn't hopping anything. That's why I paused for four seconds before delivering the much deserved punch line.

He was (at least pretending to be) livid. I lost that battle. Was asked to leave. Casino took his side.

Second time ever being asked to leave a casino. Last time was 86'd from Fiesta Rancho years ago for similar concerns relating to "bad dice" claims that I was investigating at the time. I know when I investigate bad dice, I'm potentially burning a casino. And now that I potentially have casinos as potential future customers, it's not something that I do or talk about doing without good reason.

But casinos should be expected to change their dice every day if they book bets over $300. That's just my opinion. But five days when you are booking multiple thousand dollar bets is unacceptable to me. And I think other players would agree. I'm not in the habit of checking the your dice aren't beat up every time I play the game. I just pick them up and shoot'em these days. Not the whole dice controller thing like it used to be with me.